moosetracker

viewpoints on others really want others not to exist at all. Well I don't know about the atheists, some can co-exist with others, while some seem inclined to if not stamp out religion, then fence it into the churchyard.. Gays???... I have heard in recent news preists giving sermans about "slapping your sons if he shows any feminine signs.. Or taking all gays to someplace and fencing them in, so they can not reproduce and will die off.."(as if gays begetting gays is where homosexuality comes from). Anyway it leads to the question of which group is wanting others to not exist? I don't hear any negitive comments homosexuals make against hetersexuals.. I don't even hear that type of comments from the atheists (but would be less surprised if there was).. From what I see the most militent of the atheiests might let you out of your church yards when your done singing hymns and praying.. I don't think I have heard anything about punching out a person who prays. I have though seen a statement that they feel teaching your children about your religion is cruel and unsual punishment.

BluejacketScouter - the city of our troop did something similar with the fire hydrant painting. But, split up the work between different troops.. Some troops did it as a troop service project, others as Eagle projects. Our troop failed finishing our piece. The boy who was to do it as an Eagle project did one day, then stopped.. The troop kept waiting for him to finish and it was the fire department who called us on our time of immobility and asked for the paint back, (which was at the boys house so hopefully he did return it.) My son had a great idea for one, but got sick for over a year and couldn't finish it. Luckily it was just had the approval, and was in the early planning stages.. He was going to do a reading day. Get different youth orgs of the town to volunteer to find a fun story, and tell it.. It definately had to be read, but if others of the youth org wanted to do things to enhance it that would be fine too.. He hoped that by young kids seeing older kids reading it would excite them to want to read to.. He was also going to allow the orgs to get visibility for their organization also. I wish he had finished it after he got better, but the ailment killed his confidence for public speaking and the project had alot of it.. A boy just went to the Eagle board with something also on reading. He is going to do small posts & shadow boxes along a hiking trail near a library. The library will change out different stories. So the kids can hike the trail and read a story along the way. (My son was amazed that someone from the Eagle board upon hearing about it, remembered about his origial eagle project that was similar.)

Ok, went through the whole chart.. Lots about employee, administrative emphisis, lots for membership increase and retention, lots for finanace.. Volunteer & program... Well lots for training adults. A little for training youth. decent amount for increasing physical fitness and community service.. All in all for updating program as far as the kids are concerned... ***YAWN*** Did anyone find anything I missed that they thought would be an exciting program change to interest youth?

One boy from my old troop did an nice non-construction project.. He got one of those town plots and raised vegetables all summer long, harvasting and suppling a nearby food bank with fresh produce.. The boys had to volunteer on who would tend the garden at what times throughout the summer.. From what I understand the Foodbank was amazed by how much they grew, and that by mid-summer they were being supplied continually throughout the rest of the growning season.

Well it is nice to know in the Boy scouts that physically strong and mentally awake are way more important then morally straight due to the order that has been placed upon them in the queue.. I never knew that..

Since the new guide says parents can fund it, then that is what they can do.. As far as this project is concerned this is even more so a donation to the non-profit though.. If the Eagle project concludes with no time to finish fundraising, this example even looses the quibble we are having of if you can fundraise after.. There would be no time to fund raise after.. The Eagle project is done, the boy ages out of being a scout. Now if the scout and parents work something out that the scout repays the loan through some summer job, that is their personal agreement.. Then it becomes a fact that all the extra money not raised by the fundraising would slowly become fully donated by the scouts personal income.

Well do not know about Kudu's quote #1 & #3 from BP.. But, I know quote #2 is not from BP.. BP was no longer with us by the time that WB 21st century, altered the original WB.. I have heard things about the original WB, from people who took it, that did not have Kudu's love of it.. From them I was informed there was a lot of bullying, both while training the staff and toward the participants.. So don't know about the scoutcraft verses the leadership training.. But, the way the new WB treats those who staff and participate has greatly improved.. There most definately was a good ol' boys group in that program, and they felt everyone else was worthless.

They are not suppose to solicit for money donations.. They are to run fundraisers. But, with some items you might know about donations given.. Example.. My husband delivers to and comes home with boxes of (I mean BOXES (moving box sized)) of Lindt chocolate.. Donated.. "Here hand it out to the scouts".. He also got donated to Scouts a whole trunk full of bolts & bolts of material.. Someone might be building a retaining wall and know of a place that sell imperfect (as in not all the perfect color) retaining wall stone.. (My husband & I picked up some years ago.. I thought it would be a mix of all different colored cast-offs.. They were all of the same color.. Off color?? Couldn't tell.. They weren't different shades of gray either.. A relative who works at a landscaping buisness, and can get you donated the plants that will just be left to die, because the season is ending to sell it. Don't know if it is now, but Walmart had some plan that any unit could go in when planning an event, to get 25 dollars off of in-store purchases.. Panara bread is famous for giving you donations of the unsold bread... We have used it for several scout breakfasts.. I don't know what our WB Quartermaster did, but she got donations every single weekend (and it was way too much to just consider it being cast-offs).. Uncle Sammy owns a buisness and volunteers to donate $100 (unsolicited) in the name of his buisness. Now.. We have Mom & Dad who can volunterily donate to your project. With other donations you do not return it.. With MoM & Dad either, it should not be returned. Like if Walmart gave you $25 dollars for purchased food for your BSA camping event and the event is canceled.. Would you return the food or the $25? Or would you just eat the food?? Mom & Dad have to know they are not donating to son, they are donating to the non-profit org..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

And keep in mind there is nothing which prevents the parents for simply stroking a check and making a "donation" to the project. That Scout Mom's son wants to call it a loan and pay them back is a positive step. There is the problem, the parents may see it a a check and a donation to the project.. But it is not.. It is a donation to the non-profit, which they wish the non-profit will use toward the project.. If the scout then gets a big donation for materials, the non-profit need not return the money to the parents.. If the scout nevers does the project, never uses the money to buy the material.. The non-profit need not return the money to the parents, they can use it for something else.. It is like you donating FOS funds to your council because in their FOS speech they discuss earmarking it to repave the roads at camp which you feel are in desperate need.. Then you find out, that the camp now is earmarked to be sold, and they ditch the road pavement project.. Do you get your money back?? Nope.. It was alot easier to understand the concept of the money raised was yours to run your project and any extra profit that was leftover was then donated to the non-profit..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

BD - What did Beavah write that had anything to do with troop hopping? Anyway.. We were the hoppies, rather then the recipients of hoppers.. I have to be honest, the choice to move out.. Parents idea, the choice of new troop was up to scout (although we previewed a few, then allowed him to select out or 3 or 4 choices..).. First time, program was too harsh.. They chose their favorites and did everything in their power to let those unwanted know they were unwanted and would never get fair treatment if they stayed.. Second time the first SM was ok, but not great.. Then he left after 3 or 4 months of us being in the troop. and gave position to a new SM who chose to run the troop for his son, and since son wanted nothing to do with the patrol method, scout skills, or advancement they were tossed out of the program.. First SM I was beginning to catch on he too was for his sons.. So when we came in, the troop worked on scout skills, but I was beginning to pick up if his sons had the skill already signed off, it was not going to be worked on again for newer scouts. So what does that state.. Both were bad programs, First one wasn't change in Adult leadership, Second one sort of was.. Both though were just bad programs..

BD - AGREE which is why I said although we all like to see the Eagle scout do as much on his own as possible. The new Eagle workbook kindof now helps parents get more involved then they should.. (It means, I don't like it.. I don't agree with it.. But there you have it.. BSA working against the best intrest of the purpose and vision of scouting.. Or at least makeing changes to the vision (which in my opinion will hurt them as much as it did in the 70's..)

Pappadaddy - CO doesn't have any say in where the extra money goes.. It belongs to the non-profit the donations were raised for. In my opinion, if a loan were made, the loan repayment also would not be something agreed upon between parents and son, because the money the parents loan will be given not to the son but the non-profit, and the agreement to pay back the loan would not be something the son the son would need to agree to (unless the pay back is done through work done by him personally and outside of the Eable project.) If it is being repaid back, that would be something the non-profit would have to agree to.. But that is just my take on the new Eagle workbook's new wording, others obviously interpret it differently.. And that is why it should not be interpreted by us, but by the District Eagle board mentor.. Because their interpretation can be anywhere from, "No way" to "sure no problem".. To something inbetween.

Two cub, I have never seen that problem with man-hour term. That's because the eagle project may be worked by scouts or non-scouts. Such as if it is a project for the church, it may be the church members who do the labor rather then scouts. Also could be scouts plus non-scout friends & family-members. Scoutfish, hours involved also means time outside of the project. For example if the scout can not drive, and his parents drive him to meet with his Eagle project advisor.. The parents time (travel & waiting), scouts time and project advisors time is counted.. Or if parents drive him to a store to either price things out or buy things.. All the scouts planning and calling and organizing is also all counted.. Also time someone works on the project without the scout being there (ex. one scout had something that required others to do presentations. He coordinated some rehersals but was not around for all their personal rehersal time.. Yet their time preparing their presentation would count.. If you account for all time spent on the project, time accumulates quickly.. It is that scouts sometimes don't track well, or think of writting down alot of it.. I find their hours are usually way under the true man-hours really put into the project.

BSA24 - although we all like to see the Eagle scout do as much on his own as possible. The new Eagle workbook kindof now helps parents get more involved then they should.. They do allow the parent to fund the whole project if they want.. While most of us disagree, it is allowed. But, the thing that has me wondering about the loan is that the new Eagle workbook states that any money given or raised for the project belongs to the non-profit the project is being raised for. So the money the family gives belongs to the non-profit, and it is their determination what it will be spent on, so would the fundraising after the project is complete.. So the non-profit does not have to use the funds raised after to pay the parents back..

Before the new policies, a lot of districts would try to guesstimate 100 hours.. That is including the kids and the volunteers time.. Now our district looks for enough demonstrated LEADERSHIP from the eagle candidate.. But, they usually expect a very similar sized project as they did in the past..

Having my son in 3 troops, one that was too hard.. One that was way too easy.. And one that was just right.. I will say it is a choice.. Fred is just reacting due to seeing the too difficult Troops (and I believe he had the too difficult Eagle workbook).. But believe me, to easy is just as bad.. Maybe even worse (but not by much..) Boys from the too easy troop, just got board and left informing their friends that scouts were for whimps.. Boys from the way too hard troop alot of them also quit, with bad feelings and not nice words for the program.. But then there were some who stayed, no matter how hard they were badgered they stayed and they worked and they would not quit whether it was to go to a different troop or to just quit.. They were just bound and determined to show the old coots wrong. I don't know how much better that is, and on a few cases it was a impossible fight, the old coots hated the scouts and would not budge.. But, the only thing I saw positive come out of it was these scouts were the best scouts I ever saw.. Maybe the old coots never recognized it, or gave them their due.. But, boy I sure did.. Well not a good reason to be too tough.. But, it is my reason to say it is that wee bit better then too easy.. But, the best is when there is alot of great adults trying to do the best for their scouts.. Trying to give them great skills, great outings, great challenges.. And they recognize and reward them fairly.. Where that line is, is the question.. And unless you want to interpret the advancement as one and done (which is way too easy).. No the meaning of proficient is differently interpreted by everyone, but as a unit you define that for your group.. Should not be so hard that the scout needs to tie the knot in 15 seconds with one hand tied behind his back, blindfolded, and with a bear ready to charge the boy.. Should not be so easy that on the day you teach the boy to tie the knot,he then copies you, after 3 wrong tries he then does one very slow, very sloppy and you sign him off for it.

For anyone who missed it, here is a link to the old thread. http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=348420

jpstodwftexas - Don't quite think it is a rule as a new recommendation but yes, there has been a recent add on that was laughed at about a month back.. Someone else may be able to provide the link, but some of things laughed at was age limits as such: Can't use 1,2 or 4 wheeled items until age 14.. (If you put a few more wheels on a wheelbarrow so it has 3 it will pass mustard I guess). I think the same age limit was given to painting with a roll-on brush with a pole attached, and the dangerous electric screwdriver.. There were others, but these 3 got the most laughs.

cute little tigers make cute little jailbirds... Couldn't find a date, perhaps it predated the law.. But now-a-days, RichardB can assign someone in that area who can throw the book at them (scout book, not law book)!

A good contact for your son to make, besides his troop would be someone on the District Eagle board.. They in the end will decide on completion if he did the project correctly or not. He should have gotten a contact number of someone from there to bump ideas off of, when they looked over and approved the project he is doing. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

I am curious if our local drug store has physicals (as one poster mentioned..) But, sad to say all of our walk-in clinics rolled up their sidewalks years ago.. Luckily they were healthy when my son was small, I used them at least one or two times a year then.

No.. I can see what BP is saying.. The boy may be loosing some points on confidence, if he is showing desperate at the interview. I can see some of it in his post. The only place I know it showed up while talking with an interviewer was after the interview, when he tried to pinpoint them on why he did not get the job. I have no doubt he is feeling desperate.. These are hard times, and young people are having a hard time landing job.. Older people are hanging desperately onto the jobs they have, even if it is not a great one, or also desperately looking for a job.. I remember being out of a job in 1990, when we had a much smaller recession.. Just bought my first house, had a baby 3 months old (laid off after a months return from pregnacy leave, as by law they couldn't lay me off until then, all the other layoff happened while I was on leave.) I had that fearful image of being homeless with a newborn baby, and not being able to provide for him. Anyway I was desperate, but I also looked for a positive angle.. That was I did want to look for something a slightly different then what I was doing. I did my resumes promoting the skills I had that I wanted to get a job that was more promenent in those skills, and I informed employers that I saw this layoff as an opportunity to move me into a better job for my talents. I found a job after 3 months.. I think it would have been alot longer if I had clung to the feeling of desperation and projected it at the interviews.

It may work.. Give you credit for trying.. My son went to a parade yesterday, and came home a little miffed. While the cubbies were all dressed in class A's and looking spiff.. The boyscouts had only one boy in his class A's and the rest marched in their class B's..

BSA24 - When that was happening (a long time ago, as one room school houses were around early in our history).. Then children rarely got schooling.. Education was how to tend the farm, boys taking care of crops and hunting for food. Girls how to cook, clean and make homespun clothes.. Then when they aged they did not work with others, but stayed out on the farm, still not needing to socialize. Now there are few farms, and even if you go into buisness for yourself, you need to learn that unless your an artist who says "This is what I made, either buy it or do not".. You will still need to socialize and get along with the customer, and understand they will not pay you if you don't follow what they ask for, but disregard it and do it your own way.. Then when they get mad, mommy wont be able to get them to pay up either. What was, isn't anymore.. Don't try finding a wife by grabbing her hair and pulling her into your den either.. Just because it was allowed at one time in history, it won't be well recieved now-a-days..

No, I don't.. But, I think few homeschool parents would use the lone scout program also, prefering to have their children in a normal unit.. Dysfunctional children are all over the place whether in public school, private school or home schooled.. .. They are either raised by overprotective, overcontroling, or living their 2nd childhood parents, along with parents on the opposite end of the spectrum those who are self-centered and don't care what happen to the children. The homeschooled children are rarely raised by self-centered parents who don't care for them.. But, can easily fall into the other category.. Parents not trusting any programs where they don't have complete control, are definately point to overprotective, or overcontroling.. As for examples, read some of the other forum threads, or other articles in general.. Parents who now go with their child to their job interviews. Parents who call the boss to complain about a missed job promotion, or to give their child a raise. Parents who come in to yell at the boss about overworking their child. Parents who have to have the child call almost every hour of the day to give detail of all that has happened, even if the child is away at college or out in the work force. In Scouts they are the parents who make sure that the program revolves around their child, forget the other scouts.. There is a thread now about parents who insisted taking their child to Boy Scout camp for the entire week when he was a cub scout. There have been many others of ridiculous rantings and ravings. Or SM's who are only in it to make sure their son gets preferential treatment. Parents who have enough money buy or build homes with indoor playgrounds, to keep their children from ever having to go outdoors. Parents who have to be "the friend" not the parent.. Feeling they should naturally hang with the gang on every outing to the mall, or to the movie.. Some doing the beer runs and wild parties to be the "hip parent". Parents who do all their childrens homework for them.. And come in to argue over a grade, or that their child didn't get the lead in the play. then you got the parents who kill or do something illegal or at least dishonest to do away with the competition. So maybe you are right put the child in Lone Scouting.. It will save some poor SM and the whole troop, boys and parents from being run in circles by over controling parents and spoiled bratty children.. But then the allowance should not be to allow home schooled children to be a reason for being a lone scout.. The reason should be listed, allowing the boy to be in the lone scout program if the parents nor child are too controlling to be able to work with others well. Then it will be open to other kids who are not home schooled, and save many Packs & troops alot of headaches.. Why, maybe even we can allow CM's & SM's to make the recommendation that the boy is not fit for anything else but Lone scouting(This message has been edited by moosetracker)