moosetracker

Your taking Woodbadge!! Good for you!.. I looked for your name on the participant list but I don't have an updated verson for a month. You must have been a last minute sign up.. Wont be at Committee meeting, I should be.. I am *ick* taking on friends of scouting. I figure it is my year to do the crappy stuff no one wants to do.. But my sister is visiting from IL, haven't seen her in years, and she will only be here for a few days. Union Liar is a good one, I agree in all you say, but still remind me next time I see you I need to kick you.. Then after I kick you I will tell you why. I was hopeful, in the summer they were the ones to uncover and report on the lie in the Romney commercial about "You didn't build that".. The the guy in the commercial got like alot in government loans to expand his buisness.. I didn't read that paper, but was shocked when it was the paper got on all the news shows for it's story. Wow! they were either going to be leaning Democratic or at least try to be unbiased.. Then they are tacking back to their biased Republican reporting.. Still, they don't spin a complete story line.. But, they could have done the mistake of just saying they need a drivers license, and not listing other things that would be valid.. And of course there was no talk about it being a voter suppression tactic..

"there is no voter proof of voter fraud" - so we leave valuables unlocked if we haven't proved that anyone's interested in stealing them? Because there is no voter fraud, there is no excuse why it absolutely, positively MUST be enacted for THIS Election.. Thing of the time given to roll out needing a passport for Canada.. And it is not your basic fundamental right to be able to go to Canada.. It is being rolled out with no regard to the fact that thousands of people can not get the supporting documents and get to the burau in time.. If it is so important why not get the word out to the public and put establish more places where you can get a proper ID, and open it for more days? You know make it more convient to get ID, so that everyone can get the ID in time? Why not spend this election checking ID's, and informing people they need ID, for the next major election, or that the ID they thought was ok would not work because of X, Y, Z.. Nope must be THIS election.. It is being fought vigourously to get it approved for THIS election.. We can't make it easy to get an ID.. It is their problem they can't get it on time. All this although there is no proof of voter fraud.. Even those fighting to stop the voter ID law in Ohio were asked if they had a problem with the law if everyone had time to get the ID.. The answer was "No". And that is picking at one voter suppression ploy.. What about the other 10?? Why do we need poll watchers intimidating people at the polls? Why do we need to purge polls of about 1/2 a million people 40 days before a major election?

IN 1961-1963 would put him to the RIGHT of Romney.. He may have been to the right of Romney 1.0 when he ran for governor of MA.. I don't see him at all to the right of 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 or 5.0... Hard, to even imagine the new 6.0 unveiled in the last day or so. The one with the new Mitt trying to show he has empathy and is for the working person. Although he did try to go back to touting his Romneycare to show he had empathy, when asked what he could reference to show the public he had empathy.. But, then the next stump speech he was going to get rid of Obama care.. The guy has no empathy for anyone who is stuggling.. JFK had a lot of empathy.. Lincoln was the emancipation Proclamation. I already made mention the Democrats was the party of the KKK UNTIL JFK changed the face of the Democratic Party.. It was from the the push or pull from Martin Luther King who slowly got JFKs support which resulted in JFK creating the civil Rights act. It outlawed major forms of discrimination against racial, ethnic, national and religious minorities. It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public. It gave greater protection for the right to vote. It enable lawsuits against state governments which operated segregated school systems. The ONLY thing I see JFK having conflict with is the Catholic religion and Pro Choice.. But, remember he was the very first Catholic President elected and his religion was a great concern of voters. They did not want the US Government to be run by the Catholic Church.. He was very well vetted to make sure he would NOT put his Catholic religion high in his decision making.. The individual people and their stupid comments (and you have A LOT of them). Todd Akin and Paul Ryan with their Legitimate rape perspective is the tip of the iceburg. But, I admit Is one dig about science I just enjoy throwing out, because it is so laughable.. But, the whole party platform to dig and drill and not care about the environment or conservation in the desire to rip our country apart for all natural resources that can be squeezed from it.. Including Mitt Romneys comment when discussing drilling for oil of I have no idea why we have federal forest preserves. Their total denial of Global Warming.. This is a serious problem with the Republicans accepting science, (or caring) when it is not profitable. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

#6 is right. It was in the Manchester Union Leader in yesterdays newspaper. I will try to remember to save the article for you. Will not be in our voter information, because it just got kicked out in the NH Supreme Court. Until it goes to the Supreme Court it can not be enacted.. The list you show is also what you can have if you live in state, the rules for an out-of-state student going to be different. It was a way they were suppose to show residence, which their passport and other items may still be listed at the home of their parents. I will admit some of the other things will be ok, but were not listed in the news article only Drivers license. I also beg to differ. Voter ID laws where you need picture Id is very different from Purging people off the polls because some outside source from Texas tells you they are Dead, not valid citizens or moved which is very different from people at your polling places harrassing people who are going in to vote or telling them their voter ID is wrong when it is perfectly valid to turn them away from the poll booth before they enter and ask the valid poll worker.. All three things are very, very, very different.. Oh here is another one.. #10. People calling your home to very nicely inform you your polling place and polling hours.. Only they are telling you the wrong information.. This was happening at the 2010 election, they anticipate it will be attempted in this election also.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Snarky are we?.. Oh, so sad to be proved wrong.. So sad to show your party up to be cheaters trying to win by stealing the election.. How to put this genie back in the box.. I know, Let's be snarky!!! Mind boggling how much voter suppression has been enacted (or attempted to be enacted) by Republicans in just the last 4 years.. If it was one little act, I could have kept the information brief.. One I forgot, I will add on when I remember more.. 9) Some state (think Ohio).. Wanted it to be valid that if someone went to the wrong polling place, the poll worker need not correct them they are in the wrong place, but it would be fine to kick the voters ballot out, even though it was a poll workers error (even if error really on purpose).. Judge overturned this one.

Hey moose, how far back do you want to go with that statement about Republicans suppressing black voters? Maybe 1863 and the time of Lincoln? Anyway I thought Democrats were the party of the KKK, until JFK came along and helped to change what it stood for.. Sort of a Flip Flop between what each party now stands for you might say. No.. 4 years will do. Ever since Obama was elected.. They hit basically (women, old, poor, blacks, latinos, students (or young)). Pretty much all groups but white males and military who are the only base left to the Republicans.. 1. Voter ID, which make it hard for poor people to get the money for supporting document.. Besides the cost of obtaining documentation. There is no voter proof of voter fraud, except a few states where people who were just released from prison did not realize they didnt get voting rights back. Governor of Pennsylvania caught on tape saying voter ID which will help Romney win Pennsylvania DONE! a. Place license bureau in hard to reach places for people who depend on mass transit. b. Not informing the public of the changes, so that they can get the ID. c. License bureau not open except maybe 2 days of week, or mixed in with drivers license.. Lost work, Lost pay. d. Time from work to try to get to licensing bureaus that can not be reached by mass transit and are only open a few days a week.. Lines can be up to 4 hours long.. Dont bring right papers you need to return to do it again. 2. They are purging the polls of people months before the election, still wanting to purge more 40 days before the election.. True the Vote is pushing this, some states are eagerly complying others are checking and finding they are claiming people dead when 95% are not, or not citizens when they are.. If you are purged from the polls 40 days from election and your state requires you to get registered 30 days before election.. Where does that leave you if you are not informed you were purged? I mean if someone says your dead, and they call and you dont answer, you can be purged for being dead. Or if your papers saying you are an American citizen are not good enough, how do you track down more detailed proof you are a citizen in 5 or 10 days? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#49188356 3. Poll watchers.. Trained by True the Vote.. Say they are independent, but funded by republican super packs.. They bash Obama or Democrats at their trainings. They are taught how to go to polling places and harass and demand to see ID and discourage you from voting if you are a demographic that leans Republican. 2 years back during the election for seats to the Congress, they only have enough trained to harass people in Texas. Not they say they have trained 1 million and will be at every voting place in the country. They have been at booths that have early voting already. Demanded IDs from students and told them they couldnt vote because their student ID didnt have their room #.. It was not a requirement, only that their ID have an expiration date.. 4. Closing Poll places in cities where it is again harder for people who depend on mass transit to get to.. 5. Reducing early voting days that helped poor people who could not take off time from work on a weekday (in Ohio, they then tried to give those early voting days back to Republican leaning districts while keeping them closed to Democratic leaning districts.. Until the population found out and their anger forced them to close early voting for all).. They make sure city polling places (tend to lean Democrat) have too few of booths so the line to vote can be 4 to 8 hour long while Republican leaning polling places have more than enough so you are in and out in less than 5 to 10 minutes.. 6. NH is trying to kick out of state students out, students tend to vote democratic.. If they vote they want them to have drivers license in NH (Only ID mentioned valid, What if you dont drive?).. Our NH supreme court said no.. Those wanting this are having a bird.. Supreme Court must hear this case NOW.. Before this election! This is the most extreme.. Most states are still allow out-of-state voters, but you have to get special info on your student ID, that if you are not informed about you wont have.. No one is informing them about it except Democrats. 7. Florida has something that will make its voting lines longer, and intimidate people who have difficulty reading.. A ballot 8 pages long with fine print LONG LENGTH reading involved.. Longer to finish casting vote, longer for the voting machine to scan in and process.. This on top of shortening voting days.. 8. Florida also made laws to make it harder for groups to go out and inform and get you registered to vote. Judge just ended that law about 10 days ago.. Somehow Republicans groups who did not follow the law were ignored, but they cracked down on Democratic groups or No party affiliated groups.. By the time the laws were removed by the courts, democrats were way behind signing up new registrations.. Saw a poll.. Normally in the last 10 years new registrants for democrats were higher the Republicans by 10% (remember youth tend to vote Democrat, they are the bulk of your new voters).. This year, 10 days ago Republican new registrants were 4 to 5 time higher the democrat.. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

I can't agree with your arguement PChadbo.. Personally if JFK lived I see hem evolving with the Democrats like Ted Kennedy and all the other Kennedy's who stayed in politics. I think he would not be comfortable in the Republican party who goes back to voter suppression for blacks, poor and Latino, as well as women.. He was very much into science, with his vision to go to the moon. He wanted our country to grow in the science field, and in education all around. Republicans now have no need for science that points out things like global warming and how a womens body works. Making lower education be a voucher system will divide the schools (more so) from the haves & have nots.. As the rich take the vouchers and add on for fancy schools, the middle class adds a little for decent schools and the poor are left behind (this is heavily slanted against blacks & latios.) He cared deeply for the poor, he fought for social reform.. The whole Kennedy family did. I do not see that while his family evolved with the Democratic views, him turning south with the philosophy of a party that does what Ryan did the other day.. When a woman stated she worked, but still couldn't make enough to get off of welfare, and asked the question.. "What advise would you give for HOW I can get off welfare. How will your program help me?" He goes into a big retoric.. "Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. Don't feed fish." That was it.. She was already working, she knew how to work. She was asking what the vision was to get people like her into better paying jobs.. No compassion or empathy, or helpful advise in that proposal. Nope.. I can not swallow the pill that JFK would change to become someone with that lack of care about people around him.

Sorry JoeBob.. I probably should have been using the term tea-party or neo-con.. Republicans still does have some good people who still think it represents what it use to, or at least realize it is not what it use to be, but want to change it back to it's former glory.. Even have heard some of our liberal media folks claiming they are hoping that this election is a total defeat for Republicans.. Not simply because they want to win.. They do, but simply because right now, your group is so radical it is scary. Still the opinion is, if Republicans loose slightly they will blame it all on Romney, and decide next time to run even more radically right.. But, if Republicans lose big time it will be a wake-up call that you are headed in the wrong direction, and you need to figure out where middle American lies, and find a way to adjust your views back to moderate Republican leanings.. Things that are palatable for the Independent voter you must win over in order to get elected.. I was not into politics in the 70s but the same video made mention that the Democrats went through its own radical left thing at that time, and had to get a wakeup call to straighten itself out.. The Democrats speaking voiced the opinion that this country is run on a two party system. It doesnt do well with a one party system. When we have a good two party system, then congress can debate and find compromise. Those compromises acheive the best for everyone. Republicans are so radically right, and refuse to swing center for a compromise.. It makes it impossible to do anything in Congress. Instead we have Republicans stating that compromise to them is when Democrats accept the views and mandates of Republicans.. We have the Democrats looking forwared to running off a fiscal cliff in order to force the Republicans to sit down and work out a compromise. These games are childish and not good for the country as a whole. As for your articles.. Some still are biased reports, others I think you saw what you wanted to see in the story. Sort of like they say during the debates each side will think that their candidate won the debate.. Your worldnews article, I listened to an interview from the Libyan president around the same time. He said the same thing. Libyan attack of the ambassador had nothing to do with the video.. But, that did not change the fact that there was a different group, personally not part of the terrorist attack that was protesting on the issue of the video on the very same day as the terrorist attack went down.. Connected only under the distinct possibility they were whipped up to a frenzy on the issue and sent out to protest at that embassy on that day to be used unwittingly as a decoy.. The Daily Beast article you saw is all factual.. It did take until late last week for the White House and the administration to formally acknowledge the attack as being a terrorist attack. But, in the news within 24 hours was the unofficial acknowledgement there was indication it was a terrorist attack.. Nothing was hidden. It was the difference between simple informal deduction and the official report from the crew sent to analysis the site. The news article I showed it was in the press, (and not through people who were talking off-the-record..) .. I dont think it was 24 hours, but maybe 2 days after, there was a news broadcast with someone walking us through the burnt out embassy, talking about where the cars pulled up, how they got into the compound where they struck first, second, third.. That it was well trained, well planned, well armed..

I love it when people call Beavah liberal. Beavah is just Beavah. Well educated on many subjects, coming to his own conclusions, and then stubbornly defending his views, which could run from liberal to conservative. Beavah and I agree on somethings, but clash on others. I am not sure what religion he is. Says he is not Catholic, but is well versed in their ideology and will defend it to the death.. On social issues Beavah & I have knocked heads on many an occasion, me being liberal, him being conservative. His war ideology is a little too neo-con for my tastes, but if total need for war I will support the US doing so, and was happy to see Bin Laden's end.. Didn't really cry over Hussans end due to his cruelty on other front, but already felt we as a country were dupped into getting into that war. I do not agree with lieing an falsify evidence in order to proove the need for a war.. But, I am just fine with word play by our President or anyone else in order to negotiate cooperation and peaceful outcomes. War should be the very last resort.

Beavah, saw your first post, but had to run off to work.. Answering JobBob took a long time this morning and I started running late.. I double down on what Beavah has said.. It all sounds sounds sensible, and that he has been figuring out his opinion by listening to a lot of different sources.. Yes, I know JoeBob... Anything outside of FOX news & conservative radio talk show hosts, is all liberal media.. Even those which debate both sides of the arguement.. If you allow the liberal view to air at all you are a total liberal. Has everyone heard? Per Rush Limbaugh the political debates are worthless, because the hosts of the debates are all liberal. So if Romney or Ryan look bad, it's not their fault, it will be the fault of the moderators.. So you heard it here, if Romney doesn't look good, Not his fault..

In addition.. To argue that Obama didn't appologize before the UN totally misses the point, and is a typical subterfuge of someone who just lost an argument. Correction.. it is in response to your ridiculous charge So, we knew September 12th that it was terrorism, but this week Obama is apologizing for a naughty video while at the UN. Which is utter nonsense, being spewed by a campaign that HAS TO MAKE THINGS UP, 'CAUSE THEY GOT NOTHING.. Which I would point out is subterfuge of the whole Republican party which is LOOSING. I would also like to add, that JoeBob's demonstration of how the radical right takes in and accepts the stories thrown out by their conservative news networks, without checking for facts, is exactly how Romney (where he ever to become president).. Could throw out some red meat to this crowd, about the proof of WMD or some other nonsense, and this group will just drink the koolaide and be rallying with pitchfork in hand, to go to war and obliterate the new threat. Get your head out of the sand JoeBob, check other news sources outside your comfort zone.. There's some nice ones, that arrange debates between people from both party lines.. How about Meet The Press, Morning Joe or The Cycle.. Maybe someone else has other suggestions to help educate our friend here. If you don't want to follow that advise, then my second advise would be not to debate others who get their news from varying sources, and then double checks that news.. Stay in your own little hermetically sealed vault with other conservatives, and grumble about what you hear and believe from you conservative news sources.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Well if that was your intent, you failed.. You have forced me to try to be a secretary taking dictation from 6:30am - 7:30 this morning to proove you took things out of context, and then spun your own interpretation on them.. This is long.. Don't know if I can put all this in one post. I may have to break this up.. Here.. Goes.. (There are two parts.. 1st 2 minutes in, talking about the attack that killed the Ambassador.. Second 10 minutes in talking about the video.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2min into the video.. Along with 3 of his colleagues Chris Stevens was killed. In the city that he helped to save. He was 52 years old. I tell you this story because Chris Stephens embodied the best of America. Like his fellow foreign service officers, he built bridges across oceans, and cultures. He was deeply invested in the international cooperation that the United Nations represents. He acted with humility but he also stood up for a set of principles, a belief that individuals should be free to determine their own destiny, and live with liberty and dignity, justice and opportunity. The attacks on the civilians in Baghzi were attacks on America. We are grateful for the assistance we received from the Libyan government and from the Libyan people. There should be no doubt that we will be relentless in tracking down the killers and bringing them to justice. I also appreciate that in recent days the leaders of other countries in the region, including Egypt, Indonesia and Yemon have taken steps to secure our diplomatic facilities, and called for calm, and so have religious authorities around the Globe. But understand the attacks of the last 2 weeks are not only an assault on America, they are also an assult an the very ideas upon which the United Nations was founded. The notion that people can resolve their differences peacefully, that diplomacy can take the place of war, that in an inter dependent world, all of us have a stake in working toward greater opportunity and security for our citizens. If we are serious about upholding these ideas, it will not be enough to put more guards in front of an embassy, or to put out statements of regret and wait for the outrage to pass. If we are serious about these ideas, we must speak honestly about the deeper causes of the crisis, because we face a choice between the forces that would drive us apart and the hopes that we hold in common. Today we must reaffirm that are future is determined by people like Chris Stevens and not by his killers. Today we must declare that this violence and intolerance has no place among our United Nations -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (goes on to talk about a vendor in Indonesia setting himself on fire to protest the oppressive corruption in his country, which started the Arab Spring. Goes on to talk about all the changes in all these middle east countries, and their over throws of dictators and starting up of new democratic governments. In there he talks about these changes to democracy seeing convulsions at time, and conflict that rise between races or tribes.. Conflicts between ideas in religion & tradition coming to terms with the diversity and interdependence of the modern world..) I dont see mention of the video in that part of the speech.. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok.. around the 10 minute mark.. In every country, there are those who find different religious beliefs threatening. In every culture, those who love freedom for themselves, must ask themselves how much theyre willing to tolerate freedom for others. That is what we saw play out in the last 2 weeks, as a crude and disgusting video sparked outrage in the Muslim world. Now I have made it clear that the United States Government had nothing to do with this video, and I believe its message must be rejected by all who respect our common humanity. It is an insult not only to Muslims, but to America as well. For as the city outside these walls makes clear, we are a country that welcomes people of every race and every faith. We are home to Muslims who worship across our country. We not only respect the freedom of religion, we have laws that protect individuals from being harmed because of how they look or what they believe. We understand why people take offense because of this video because millions of our citizens are among them. I know there are some who ask why dont we ban such a video. The answer is enshrined in our laws.Our constitution protects the right to practice free speech. Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offense. Like me many of our citizens are Christians, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs. As president of our country and commander and chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day. And I will always defend their right to do so. Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views. Even view that we profoundly disagree with. We do not do so because we support hateful speech, but because our founders understood without such protections the capacity of each individual to express their own views and practice their own faith may be threatened. We do so because in a diverse society efforts to restrict speech can quickly become a tool to silence critics and oppress minorities. We do so because given the power of faith in our lives and passion the religious differences can enflame, the stongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression, it is more speech. The voices of tolerance that rallied against bigamy and blasphemy and lift up the values of understanding and mutual respect. I know not all countries in this body share this particular understanding of the protection of free speech. We recognize that. But in 2012, at a time when anyone with a cell phone can spread offensive views around the world with a click of a button the notion that we can control the flow of information is obsolete. The question then is how do we respond? And on this we must agree there is no speech that justifies mindless violence. There are no word that excuse the killing of innocents, there are no videos that justify an attack on an embassy, theres no slander that provides an excuse for people to burn a restaurant in Lebanon or destroy a school in Tunis or cause death and destruction in Pakistan. In this modern world with modern technologies for us to respond in that way to hateful speech empowers any individual who engages in that speech to create chaos around the world. We empower the worst of us, if thats how we respond. More broadly the events of the last two weeks, also speak to the need for all of us to honestly address the tensions between the west and the Arab world that is moving toward democracy.. Now let me be clear, just as we can not solve every problem in the world.. The United States has not and will not seek to dictate the outcome of democratic transitions abroad. We do not expect every nation to agree with us on every issue. Nor do we assume the violence of the past weeks, or the hateful speech by some individuals represent the views of the overwhelmingly majority of Muslims. Anymore then the views of the people who produced this video represent the views of those of Americans. However I do believe it is the obligation of all leaders, in all countries, to speak out forcefully against violence and extremism.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (theres more, but I ran out of time.. Our president is LONG WINDED..) Anyway.. The point is you muddled two different messages.. The mention to the attack on embassies with the video, is not talking about the attack that killed Chris Stevens.. that attack was discussed (without mention of video earlier in the speech.. The key note is EMBASSIES.. not embassy.. They are talking about climbing the walls and tearing down the American flags, and destroying and looting the buildings.. I also believe he is talking about protection of our people in the future.. Some leader this weekend put a bounty on the head of the producer of the video, and wants a law passed worldwide giving them the right to kill anyone in the world for blasphemy.. This is something that is totally ridiculous..

Sorry, I missed this line, and had to comment.. So, we knew September 12th that it was terrorism, but this week Obama is apologizing for a naughty video while at the UN. I listened to that speech.. Absolutely no apology there!.. You guys are jousting windmills!.. Every time he speaks you call it an apology.. Only makes you guys look like fools. Full Speech: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/video-of-obamas-u-n-address/ Am I proud. Yes, he represented our country well.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Nothing I said differs from what you said.. Here is a news article dated Wed. 9/12 that says U.S. officials were stating that indications were it was a planned attack.. The attack was on Tuesday 9/11.. A whole 24 hour delay.. WoW!! How slow.. Why didn't they just go in and start investigations while the attack was going on, so we could have up to the minute reporting!!! http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/news-agencies-us-ambassador-to-libya-killed-in-attack-outside-consulate/2012/09/12/665de5fc-fcc4-11e1-a31e-804fccb658f9_story.html But this indication is like a cop going to investigate a murder scene, see a bullet in the head of the victim and thinks that indicates the victim died of a gun shot wound to the head.. So now we have to wait for the autopsy, to conclude that the victim truely died of the gun shot wound, because, you know.. Maybe someone killed him with poison first, then decided to use him for target practice.. Or maybe someone killed him first with the poison, then someone else not knowing the guy was already dead, came along and shot him.. In which case the poisoner is the murderer, but not the gun shooter.. Anyway the official investigation could take a week or two.. And you get the official report a week or two later.. The original mob, was there protesting the film.. The ones who scaled the wall and tore down the flag.. And yelled and made a spectical of themselfs for half the day, then in came the trained terrorist, and used the kaos for a cover.. Yes, the film was up for about 6 months.. But, few who protested the film ever saw the film, they were not sitting around their laptops for 6 months watching it, and suddenly said lets protest this film today!!! The protested the film because radicals who are against the new government, used it to incite the people.. I would question that the ones on the radios, TV who timed their telling the people about this video, and calling for them to gather and protest on this day, were probably in on the Terrist attack, and timed it to coincide with the 9/11 attack.. The other mob protests throughout the middle east have just been that. Mob protests against the video. Also not because everyone had been watching the video for 6 months on their laptops and all decided to group together 6 months later to protest it.. But, because radicals broadcasted the information about it, got them all whipped up into a frenzy and directed them on where and when to protest.. So?? What is your point exactly?? Why is this a smoking gun against the president?? P.S. The government did know about the radicals on the airwave calling for protests before the protests started.. That is the reason the comment went out from someone at the Embassy BEFORE THE PROTESTS STARTED.. Condemning the video's contents and explaining, America tolerence for religion of all kinds.. Which by the way was not an apology.. Obama said similar things with the addition of condeming the attack to the Embassy also.. And once Romney took his foot out of his mouth, for his first comment, then his doubling down on his stupidity.. He basically said the same thing.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Sorry Sentinel - my objective was not to get your nose out of joint by feeling I was purposely taking your statement out of context.. It was to throw some humor into the arena.. I tend to have sarcastic humor.. Should of ended it with a smiley face. My beef is not with you, you are an undecided, therefore I don't see your words meant to poke at be but to simply try to open up a discussion of varying opinions on the situation. Seriously though, It does take alot to get the backing of the U.N. which is why what you listed was not enough, so things were doctored to look like we had more of a problem then we had.. Now talk about taking things out of context: JoeBob: "Egypt is not an ally." Full phrase was "Egypt is neither an enemy, nor an ally." then additional fill in that it is under a new government and is going through growing pains currently or trying to find it's way.. Obama was making a chess play, to send out a message to Morsi to start taking control of the situation.. The play hit it's mark.. "Unrest and demonstrations against US interests in the Arab world are because of a YouTube video. They did acknowlege that there was a hint that the Ambassy, looked like it was more.. But, they did not confirm it until analysts went in did a full investigation and reported back..) But, the start up demonstration was about the video, and the other protest throughout the middle east is about the video.. The other thing to realize is that all the people of these countries are protesting and rioting. That would be like saying the Occupy Wall street movement was conducted by all the people in the United States.. Also if you ever turn the dial and watch other things then FOX news, it is interesting to hear people from the middle East talk about it.. Some are seeing this as a positive sign, not only those who are rising up to demonstrate their support for the US, the Ambassador, and the group who ran some of the terriorist out of where ever they were nested, but even those who are feeling free to voice their anger.. It is too complex to go into, but it is not a simple "This is a bad thing" answer.. Carney: "If the president visits one foreign leader (while they're in town at the UN) he'll have to vistit ten." So he went on 'The View' instead... This one may be a right move, or a wrong move.. To republicans they can ham it up, they have little else to attack the encumbant on, while we have a host of material on Romney, and the list just keeps on growing.. They were going to solve anything with a 15 minute face to face discussion, and seeing he is up for re-election if they really couldn't agree on any long term plans at this time, if it were possible. Now I have to ask, since the radical right has been asserting that Obama is a member of the muslim brotherhood.. I mean this is one of your consperacy theroys.. Why is it they decide not to be good little boys and girls and play nice until Obama is re-elected? I mean the whole theory is that he is trying to hand our government over to them so they can slaughter us.. Why would they do anything to upset these well laid plans, by rioting and rebel raising a month before the elections?

Furthermore, Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism, funneling money to Al Qaeda and other anti American groups. Well if that is a bases for starting a war, why are we tiptoeing around starting up some new war with Iran? Come-on guys! Lets go!.. You need to build up a heaping pile of proof & build up enough fear before you can engage, or risk being sanctioned by the UN, and not having the backing of the American people. Do I need to say more then he is a Republican?. Could have been the al Queda link, but he couldn't muster enough support with just the affiliation to al Queda.. Could have been oil, only his opinion of what the final results would be did not turn out as planned.. Could have been the fact he thought Hussein had tried to kill his father, Bush Sr.. Could have been because like most Republicans there is a belief that war stimulates our economy.. To walk around in side the mind of a Republican is sometimes very difficult.. I mean who knew the Republicans reasoning to not allow exemptions for the morning after pill, or abortion after a women is raped, is due to the fact that the womens body has a way of shutting that whole thing down if it is a legitamite rape...

Mass. Democrats out number Republicans 3 to 1. Basically it's a one party state. For the most part.. BUT... They did vote Republican when they elected him to be their Governor.. AND.. They also currently (well see after Nov 6) have a republican senator, Scott Brown.. Was he a lousy Governor? Does MA hate RomneyCare, but love Obamacare? Have they shifted more Left?

They relied on the intellegence information, which was provided by the USA, which was manufactured.. Same as the American people.. If someone tells you to stop doing something your not doing, how do you stop? When they again tell you to stop doing it.. Now what are you suppose to stop?

Yeap.. The warning signs that Iraq was building WMD was based on intelligence we supposibly had on them.. That intelligence was falsified and made up, by the Bush administration to fool the public into backing this decision.. Therefore the "what if" theroy doesn't hold water.. More likely, it is this.. What if, we had not indicatiors that Iraq was building WMD, and Bush just stated one day, clear out of the blue.. "I'm bored... Let's start a war with Iraq"..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Maybe they will respond later, but in other political threads I have heard from two MA residents.. One, who just volunteered the fact he thought Romneycare was the best thing Romney did as MA governor.. Another who though poorly of Romney because of Romneycare.. Neither were very detailed in their reasoning though.. If it is any indictation Obama has a 28% LEAD in MA over Romney.. Now it may be that no one in that state has read a newspaper, watched the news, or has seen anything on the internet, and are voting against Romney because he started Romneycare.. I though have a feeling that MA population are well educated, and are therefore plugged in enough to know that Romney 2.0 - 5.0 is against Obamacare, and Obama of course thinks the program he started is very beneficial.. Romney had alot of other things he did that made him an unpopular 1 term governor there.

Well at least Obama evolved in the direction he was heading in.. He was the one to end "Don't ask, Don't tell", and championed other rights for the gay community.. It wasn't that he was elected by claiming he wanted to make homosexuality illegal, and then evolved to be pro-same-sex marriages.. It was also discussed, and decided not to come out, as it would loose votes.. Don't know why, but when Biden announced his support for ss-marriages, it then seemed best that Obama also make his views on the subject public.. From what I hear, Biden was in the dog house for that one.. I would say, Obama declaring his position was really no surprise for most of us who had even half-heartedly followed political news.. Now Mitt, was for ss-marriages, and then flip-flopped to be against it.. Sentenal, seeing that on social matters between candidates is a coin toss. I would suggest you make your decision viewing each one on other subject matters, economy, education, foreign affairs, etc.. So for all your fiscally conservative Republicans, who say Republicans are the math geeks.. Explain the new thing with Republicans and polls... Since the polls are not in their favor, they had someone skew all the polls in their favor.. lo and behold, when they did that... why.. Mitt was winning!!! That is the explanation of how they can say the Ryan plan will pay down the deficit.. Without their brilliant mathmaticians, then reducing taxes and starting wars just doesn't compute.. But, with their birlliant mathmaticians there to skew the numbers, why anything is possible!!

Even I was surprised that it was decided to be passed out at a school. Although I would not have been surprised if it was made available without parent notification at health clinics.. If available at the school though, I think it should go the way aspirin is (at least in my son's high school 3 years back.) My son couldn't receive aspirin unless I SIGNED a letter stating he could.. Of course how many kids would forge the signature, I don't know. This is a slight difference to making it available unless you sign something, or signing something to make it available though.. I always get upset when I recieve my bill from my credit card company, or phone company.. Tucked in the back page of the multi-page bill is a notification.. We plan to sell your information to every marketing agency in the world unless you sign to opt out.. Tucked neatly back there in hopes you don't see it, so you never sign and they get to sell your information. Signing something to request service takes more thought and active participation in the activities of your children and your own veiws about it.. Not signing something is very easy for parents who are not actively engaged in the lifes of their children.. Well, it is mayor Bloomburg.. His policies have raised eyebrows in the past.. As for all the garbage about teaching abstance (Probably from the same folks who also fight to take sex education out of the school curriculum, so the child is not allowed to learn anything about sex).. Pure poppycock, from people who have not accepted this is not 1880 anymore. Especially in cities like NYC.. edited to add : On further thought the fact that the parent sign something is also for legal reason.. For dispensing any medicine, if something goes wrong, the parents signature is protection against being sued.. The lack of a signature, is not very good as a cover-your-a$$ policy.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Although in 2010 a continuation for the Bush taxes was renewed. It was only renewed for 2 years, I don't understand quite why they couldn't just stall and let it end at that time, something about where the economy was at that time.. I heard some explanation, but have forgotten what it was.. This video explains off the cliff.. The first two or three minutes start with a scene from the Thema & Louise movie about driving off the cliff, so do not be concerned that it is the wrong video I hooked you up with.. Democrats are making buttons and getting really excited about this. Republicans are sweating bullets.. http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2012/07/19/12843963-democrats-take-a-harder-line-on-going-off-the-fiscal-cliff?lite

packsaddle - your throwing granny off the cliff! Shame one you! as for this statement of yours And I'll write this again, I see great merit in Romney's lack of passion or perhaps even empathy. It is what would (hopefully will) allow him to make hard decisions dispassionately, rather than kicking the whole shebang down the road for our children's children's children. I support Romney's approach because I think it will be better to bear this pain now and have most of it borne by the people who created the problem...than to put all that off on innocents who have yet to be born. Yes it would be very painful. We brought it on ourselves. Now I could be wrong and Romney might just follow the same failed path that Obama is following. But if that's the case, it doesn't matter who's in the oval office does it? Same outcome. But if there's a chance that Romney will rein in the spending and make the hard decisions that need to be made, I say give him a chance. It makes no sense.. Romney is all for keeping the tax stimulus plan.. Obama plans to see it ended. That is the whole reason Democrats are excited and wearing the "Off the Cliff buttons".. Not Granny off the cliff, but in January both the end date of the tax stimulus plan ends, and also an agreed upon budget slashing proposal goes into effect.. A totally new tax plan can be proposed then (which does let the rich pay 0% or some other rediculous figure..) Also the Republicans will have to negotiate or live with a tax slash to their beloved military spending.. Romney wants to keep the tax stimulous, have the rich pay less (and says the middle class / poor won't pay more, but it will happen if he cuts alot of programs that help the midle class / poor.) Romeny's plan is to keep the tax cuts and if he is going to balance the budget. It will be while the rich sail off in their yachts and don't pay a dime toward it.. The poor don't have the money, so the full debt would be on the shoulders of the middle class, which is getting smaller and smaller as more of us sink into poverty. So why is the tax stimulus a bad decision from Bush, but Romney doubling down on the same plan a good decision of Romney's???? Ryan's Plan is to balance the budget in something like 2040.. And that's if we have absolutely no unforseen problems.. And still the independent Analysts say it will not work even with no unforeseen problems.. Romney on some days says his plan is to follow the Ryan plan, then on other days he has his own plan.. I was not a fan of the Auto, and wallstreet bailouts, but mainly because I thought the auto industry could not come back so feared we were throwing money we didn't have away.. Wall street in my opinion did not deserve the bailout.. But, when the loans were repaid, then my issue with it was removed (except wallstreet still did not deserve it, and like I said did not use it as it was intended..) But Wall Street is sound and that is a good thing for our retired parents who are living off of investments from it (the ones you wish to throw off the cliff.) And there were alot of jobs saved, not only auto industry jobs, but companies who manufactured car parts.. So, in the long run.. It was a huge gamble that paid off.. (Although wall street still did not deserve it.)

I stand corrected.. But, still things were good.. And I don't think the Republican party can take that much credit for it. He was a great smoozer to get things through that he wanted to. And he made it his goal to balance the budget.. And it was not using the Republicans play book of lowering taxes and starting wars. He raised taxes.. And wonder of all wonder, business still was able to thrive! Now this time around you maybe can say that the reason Obama was not able to pass much that would have made part of the national debt due to ideas he enacted was due to the Republican house filabustering everything.. But, you can also say that the reason the economy has not rebounded with more jobs is because of the Republican house filabustering everything.. So we will never know if the job surplus bill would have helped.. I am though quite certain Republicans fix of deregulating wallstreet, will not help.. It will just go back to them robbing mainstreet for their own personal wealth, until their schemes catch up to them again and the ecomony tanks even lower, and they bail leaving the American taxpayer to clean up their mess again. As Clinton stated "It's the arithmetic!".. and then he pointed out why the Republicans ain't got none!(This message has been edited by moosetracker)