moosetracker

Khaliela, as you stated you weren't an Atheist, same a DWise1 states he wasn't an Atheist.. Seriously are all leaders in your area church goers? Can you really say it was about your religious views.. From what I remember you were big on the older scoutcraft ways and not the more modern beliefs.. Big into patrols going out without adult leadership etc.. You don't think their problem wasn't with you not falling in line with becoming a troop that coddled the scouts, and was really about if your belief in a superior authority didn't match their belief? It is troubling to me though to hear that not only witch-hunts were going on with homosexuals, but also in this way..

I agree with Merlyn. All that is simply self interest. Your belief that your god will smile upon you if you do it.. Doing for your family and teaching them your beliefs is self interest, I am sure Merlyn brings up his children to be ethical, it is just not your self defined notion of what that is. Giving to your church is also self interest.. It is like doing an eagle project for the BSA. I also loved how you worded it.. "Tithing to the evangelical fund for one's religion."... Hmm.. so giving to LDS if you are of that religion doesn't count, nor a Jewish temple? If you are atheist and give to an orphanage or to the community soup kitchen, that doesn't count??.. It is you AZMike who try to move the goal post into your narrow definition.

Never heard of them pulling out an adult unless they were loudly proclaiming and promoting being an atheist.. Most the adults I know I have no idea what the believe or if they believe in anything it is just accepted that if they signed up they were at peace with what they signed. Many are not affiliated with any church at all. The only time I have heard of anything is if a boy gets a question at their eagle board, and they proclaim they are atheist or whatever, at which point it is usually as much of a surprise to the scoutmaster, and the boy may not even know that he is saying something that will hurt his chances of getting his eagle (or he does know and it is an "in your face" move)... That it also was an ambush by district leaders tells me that you had a corrupt bunch on your district staff and there was something other then your religion that caused them to want to take you down..

DWise - I am sorry for your experience in scouting as a youth, it was wrong and you were wronged.. You did say you went through years of appeal, so I would imagine it went up to National and probably beyond to the court system.. I am shocked it went so far, and that you were not victorious.. I am surprised it did not get more media attention as a case as to what is wrong with the BSA. Our District had a similar case last year. Though it took a week of deliberation and speaking more with the young man's religious witness. But, the young man made the mistake of saying at the board that he did not believe in God.. He went out with his scoutmaster while the board deliberated and the scoutmaster told him what he said wrong.. On his return he corrected himself in saying he was not an atheist, he just didn't believe in God as everyone else did.. The board was about to deny him, but decided to investigate upon the statement he did not consider himself an atheist. Lucky for him the person he put down was a Catholic priest.. the young man went to a Catholic school, yet was not Catholic.. The priest though wrote a statement on his behalf which when I saw it I thought was going to be too wishy washy for the board to accept.. The letter only stated he was respectful of others beliefs and was a good kid.. But, the board decided to consider the boy "In search of" what God means to him, but that he was not a atheist. So he was approved.. Therefore the scout never needed to appeal higher then District's board. Our board has stated that you need to believe in something higher then yourself, but have stated they don't care if it is a rock, tree or lamppost, you just might need a little more explanation as to why the lamppost is a higher entity then yourself, if that is what you believe. Still I wonder, if the boy had not attended a Catholic school, and had a Catholic priest as his witness if it would have turned out so well. But, I am certain that this board would have excepted your UU beliefs and the statements of your minister as equally acceptable also..

Oh I know Packsaddle, they are a little bit of everything some having some ties to the faith they grew up in, but disliking something about it, homosexuals that have been rejected by their faith, people who have unique ideas but perhaps do not consider themselves from any formal religious background.. But, there are also atheists among them who just enjoy the community. (I think I saw an antennae rising out of the back of the head of one of them the other day.)

So maybe atheist need different denominations, so that the respectful considerate atheists can separate themselves away from the obnoxious, disrespectful activist atheists.. I guess you get some of that if you can be a UU atheist and be accepted.. You just need one that collectively defines you without having to go to any group meeting about it.. But, I know my districts Eagle board will ask if the scout believes in a higher power, so that would probably trip up a UU atheist..

Ha, Ha King Ding Dong... I think that statement is in an attempt to live up to your name... I thought the whole forum was down during the week after the vote, I would love to see some of the discussions after the vote.. Has anyone followed through on there threats to leave? I did get to see some comments as I found I could see something if I went into the forum for Issues an Politics and then hit latest activity.. But. I found going in that way is when I can't post replies and get an error.. If I post on the few that are truly in the forum, I find I can post on those with no problem.

Well I am glad to see others having problems (not as in glad you are having problems, but glad I am not alone.).. I see some work done in that the threads go straight to a comment if you click on a post out of a thread.. I see an auto save going on also, not sure what you do when you loose stuff and would like to use it though. Nice little Icons for pictures and links (do they work?).. But... A) I haven't been around for weeks because I thought the whole forum was down. I just got "This page can't be displayed, that I always got when Terry was working on the forum, problem was it just never came back.. Today I thought to go to a search engine and search out the site, and I found it.. (My original favorites link was tied to Latest activity).. Now that I found my way back: Latest activity through this websites link is here shows an empty page.. Issues & politics shows an empty page, I can see though latest post something is there and can click on that to get to the thread in issue & Politics that had the latest posts in it. Open Discussion has only 2 threads in it. New to forum looks the best with 10 threads dating back to when we could start creating new threads.. Anyone find some hints and secrets as to finding all the hidden topics?? Now I am going to save this in my clipboard before posting, by some of the recent grumbling sounds like posting is unreliable again..

I'm a racist for criticizing Obama & Bush was just as bad??? What !!! That makes no sense at all.. I'm not a racist at all, because I will whole heartedly admit that Bush was 1000 times worse.. Government abuse of power is not Bush lying to the American people about Weapons of mas destruction, so that he could get the war HE wanted, but there wasn't any reason to have it unless you made up false claims?? Government abuse of power is not writing laws that allow the government to tap and spy on anyone the deem a reason to?? Government abuse of power is holding people without a trial, and torturing them?? Now let's talk about states under Republican rule, the ones that are forcing Planned parenthood to close, the ones that have either outlawed Sharia law, or certain religions. Michigan who the courts said they had to put their Emergency takeover of towns and cities before they could enact it, So when it was voted down, they re-enacted the rule and continued to proceed with it. The ones that try to deny college students in their state the right to vote.. The ones that force doctors to preform unnecessary tests on females, the ones that put into law that Doctors must tell their patients that abortions lead to cancer which is pure nonsense, but Doctors must now under law lie to their patients.. The sanctity of the Constitution for Republicans is only misinterpreting the meaning of the 2nd amendment, other then that, they will stomp all over every other right in the Constitution, and all over the rights of the people in under their rule.

Sorry, we are not in the navy.. If we were we would have turned over a new president every month whether it be a Republican or a Democrat. But basically you did get your blood with the forced resignation of the head of the IRS.. Look at it this way, if the ship goes down, the captain gets the boot, but not the Admiral of the fleet. If a bank clerk is in on a bank heist, maybe the head of that bank would be in hot water, but not the Head of the entire corporation.. Fact is the POTUS has never had the confidence of the diehards of the Republican party, They are just scratching their heads as to why the rest of the country doesn't see it their way.. No corrupt thugs in the White house, just a black president and Democrat to boot, that makes you spit with fury.. So keep on spitting, and not concentrating on what you should be, and keep making yourselves look petty and unable to concentrate on the real issues, while the Democrats continue to look like they are willing to concentrate on the real issues, yet are shackled with Republican incompetence.. In four years we will again have another Democrat in the White House, at least he won't be black but it may be a women.. What say you then??? Your guys have twisted and turned Benghazi to the point that we all can see nothing is there but wishful thinking.. Oh, yes there was some oversight problems, you got your blood there two as 4 state department officials were relieved of their duties. But attacks on Embassies have happened before, they will happen again, and the PONTUS is not removed from his job because he is too far removed from the daily decision making.. But, also Stevenson had a hand in his own fate for not wanting extra security. Republicans also played a part for decreasing funds for securities (can we remove all who voted for that)? But then none of that is important.. What matters are the talking points, let’s continue to beat that dead horse.. Your Republicans friends tried to leak lies about what was in the emails going back & forth to make it "seem" like someone in the WH did say something that at least approved of changes made to them.. They had egg on their faces when the email then were made public to show how much the Republicans were lying with false innuendos. Egg on your face, because you have picked the carcass clean and have nothing, just like Bush and his promised “Weapons of Mass Destructionâ€Â, or the supposed “Fast & Furious†scandal.. You Republicans go to such length to try to find something and come up empty handed, which only goes to proving that your Democrat nemesis’s are lily white.. You end up looking foolish and petty. The AP bugging was upsetting to the news reporters who you wonder why they aren’t more upset with Obama over. Fact is, the bugging is perfectly legal thank to a past President by the name of Bush.. Same reason they could tap your phone or read your email.. Just takes someone in the FBI or homeland security thinking, just thinking they have a reason to do so.. Now Republicans are trying to say it is all Obama’s fault about the IRS.. Listen to Bill O’Reilly or Charles Krauthammer (your news guys) who are telling you that you are overplaying your hand and making gross speculations.. Your “We the People†are nothing but a bunch of over zealous teaparty people who are in your own bubble.. The rest of the “We the People†are either Democrats still in support of the PONTUS, or the average person who never has seen anyone in Washington (Republican or Democrat) as perfect, but figures the will bumble and stumble their way to some solution. But, if they look at a President who is trying to find solutions to the imperfections that will always be there because we are human, and the Republicans that just want to cry “Wolf†at every little flaw, and over hype it to the point that is insane.. You get the ‘We the People†who feel that they will take the imperfections of this White house over the insanity of the Republicans… Who has a loss of confidence? The Republicans.. You can see it in all the polls, they are about as popular as doggie doo.. Except for Chris Christie and the few sane ones left in your party who know how to disagree in a bi-partisan way without looking insanely obsessed in wanting to cut off their nose to spite their face. Continue with your witch hunt, it only hurts your credibility and continues to prove to the Nation of the PONTUS innocence in being the kingpin of the actions of low level employees, of which he in some fashion has some oversight of in the number of millions of people..

Sorry NJ.. If ThomasJefferson was constantly writing in the pretend hand of the real TJ, I would agree with you that that would get tedious. But, one small comment or done very sparsely, and just let it roll off as amusing.

The 501c4 tax exempt is suppose to be exclusively used for social welfare. Political parties are not social welfare.. The scandal comes in the fact that the IRS GAVE the tax exempt status to them after researching them. It is also a scandal that they gave tax exempt to Democratic parties also after researching them or not. Bottom line no one was denied the Tax exempt status, and that is where the scandal lies. IRS should follow the wording of the rules and laws placed around what qualifies for the 501c4 tax exempt status.. Since they don't the country has lost out in a lot of needed tax collection money that should have been collected. After that it is just normal Republicans crying "Wolf" by trying to tie the actions of low level employees to being the fault of the President.. Some Republicans are starting to wake up and warn others against this hysterical belly-aching which ends up making them look worse and Democrats look better in the long run.. Some Republicans just are too wrapped up in their obsession with trying to find something (anything) to impeach Obama with and refuse to listen. This would really be entertaining to watch, if it weren't for the fact they waste so much time on it, and in the meantime can't focus on trying to fix the economy and put people back to work.

Yeah that feature is on again, off again for me too.. If I remember after clicking edit, I first look to see if it has that enter title command, before I waste my time trying to edit.

Well then it seems it must have been sent out by a local guy, or some group targeting specific Councils.. Everyone I have asked got the emails, of course I only asked those in district or council I did not ask the unit level scouters. So someone could have pulled our email off the council website, or, they have access to the council list through other means.. Don't know why they would hit a northern Council with it, it only will anger us in the opposite direction then where they want to push us. Krumpus you haven't been watching the news have you?.. There are scouters in uniform standing in open public squares spreading these hate messages with signs and public speechs. With kids all around them, be it youth scouts or just youths with their parents passing by a public place

Well someone went down the list of emails at our council, or is in our council, and sent out to the Scouters on his email list.. My DE just responded.. He said he got it too.. They all did, and the council is nine to happy.. (I think he meant to say "none to happy:, not "nine to happy").. He didn't comment on if the person was a real person or not.. I will have to see if anyone else in my family got it, and I think I will ask the trainers at tomorrows training if any of them got it (not the participants)..

My son & husband send out emails that LOOK like they are coming from them, but if you look closely you can tell it is from someone else that is using their name.. I got hacked once and I sent out email, that looked like it was truely coming from me, I had to change my password and my security question, and they never went out again.. I program for the LOOK like it's comeing from someone else all the time at work, due to automating a process that spits email, or sending email through a program.. Program asks who they are, and then when they send the email the program makes it LOOK like it came from them.. But, if you look closely you can see that it did not, even without getting into all the heavy technical crap they use to track down real serious criminals.. The true telling though will be how he is vocally expressing his opinion on the issue.. Has he been in his DE's face spitting garbage similar? Have other complained about his comments? If he is stupid enough to send this out, what would happen if you walk up to him and discuss the email like it was an eye opener to you, or you agree with what he said in it? Anyone who is believing this crap is not running on all fours to begin with, and is already full of himself..

King Ding Dong -- Nada, Nada, Nada.. Except for my DE, no one else.. I don't want to be kicked out.. I thought about summarizing the words (minus the pictures), but then I would still be helping them "spread the hate and fear mongering".. So, you will just have to hope to be so lucky that someone will choose to share it with you.. I will give you a very brief overview though.. This thing is 10 pages long in MS Word, just the text alone, without the pictures.. Some stuff that we have heard here about homosexuals being the same thing as pedophiles, with some crimes of pedophiles for the scare tactic.. Linking Homosexuality (as well as planned parenthood) to the government sterilization in the 50's and some wild extra claims on the subject.. That ALL major religions are against it, and if they are not they can't inturpret their bibles correctly.. Here is a good line.. I will write it exactly as it is written "There are still many who realize the truth of the problems caused by a female Scout leader. It is sometimes an unavoidable necessity if there are no men for the role, but it should be a last resort." Some added fears that what we see on the surface is not all there is, there are secret secret nasty things that never reach the light of day, (Something along the light of if the guy in the news with the 3 women he kidnapped and tortured for 10 years is a heterosexual, well then that is how all you heterosexual males are, only turn it around to be about homosexuals). And then there are the pictures.. Lots & Lots of pictures, some with almost naked females with pasties, Men were better clothed (shucks), but some nice bulges accented in their choice of attire, then just wild rainbow outfits and weird haridos (all pictures had the benifit of captions that, had lude remarks about them.). All seem to be from some gay pride parade of some sort.. Mozart - It does have an email and name attached, so unless the person was hacked, you know who the person was.. The question then becomes are they in the district or council, and if so is that their valid email, and if so you can then question him about it, and perhaps others around him as to how loud and intolerant his comments have been in public settings.. Someone as brazen as this would not be just sending out email..

About the upcoming vote on homosexuals allowed to be members.. I think a wee bit late, as the time of National polling is done, and now it is just a few people voting on the issue.. But the topic was of a side-note.. I am looking at it more as how can anyone call themselves a Scout and send this hate spewing, fear mongering complete with about 10 resque pictures of the most flamboyant of the homosexuals (I don't know why one guy carring a female blowup sex doll down the street made him part of the flamboyant homosexual crowd, but.. OK.. The others were more on track with the homosexuals.. Anyway, how can you send that out to other people in your scouting group, and still be called a moral decent scouter?? I didn't recognize the name of the person, but my working at district level and having sent out training announcements through e-blasts means I wont know everyone.. It could be spam mail that just happened to connect with a real scouter.. But the email encouraged me to pass on the email to all my friends and fellow scouters, which made me fear someone in our district / council brainlessly did just that.. I forwarded it to my DE, pre-empted with a note that it was not sent to him in order to pass it to all scouters I knew, but for him to check if this guy was in our district/ council, so that he could take the correct actions against the person sending the email.. Just curious if anyone else has recieved this delightful post, and if you did anything about it.. Hopefully you did not pass it on, because I don't think you will stay a member of the BSA much longer after you did.. My feeling is the words may not have put him over the top. With that he may have only gotten his hand slapped. But he crossed the line sending out the pictures that were in the email..

Neither do I, it just looked the same as it did now.. A search textbox.. Type something in and hit enter, away it went... I never saw anything for an advanced search, or anything..

Well I wasn't much of a fan of the old search if you were looking for something specific. For anything on tinfoil desserts it was ok.. But it didn't seem to have any date sort or filter, so to find a specific thread was difficult for me as you were slogging throught over 10 years of any post with the word of whatever.. But, at least it was there.

Yeah, the ability to start a thread was not allowed by anyone but Scouter Terry the admin, for about 1.5 months.. That is an improvement. But the navigation is still pretty bad, along with going into a thread and being told there is only 1 page when there are 5, or only 3 pages when there are 4.. I hope we get back to normal soon.. Don't know about the search either.. Yesterday I wanted some new ideas for quick tin foil desserts, but since it has been a past topic I just wanted to search out the old threads.. Tinfoil or Tin foil brought up nothing..

Well, since I was a girl (cooties and all).. I first had a crush on David Jones of the Monkees, then it was Bobby Shermin from Here come the Brides... Never did like David Cassidy much.. (But NJCubScouter I like Marlo Thomas also (not in that way), but she always for some reason reminded me of my big sister, who I always looked up to growing up.

Picking on me packsaddle?.. We can always just shorten it to "Live or Die".. (you choose).. Seriously, it's nice and short and looks good on bumper stickers.. What's your beef?

Perfect attitude Mozart.. I understand the counseling due to a kids turf battle, or a kid being home sick etc.. That's a given, you are as much a counselor as a parent would be.. But, that wouldn't qualify you to work out problems that stem from a kid who was kidnapped, abused, watched a loved one get murdered, was at the Boston Marathon and was one of the victims or watched as countless people got blown up in front of your eyes, nor would it qualify you to work through a childs sexual orientation issues if he was realizing he was homosexual, or (as LDS wishes) not work through them at all, just come up with a cockamamie game plan on how to convert you to becomeing sexually interesting in females rather then males.. Go camping, canoeing, hiking and cooking and leave your nose out of buisness that you have no qualifications to tinker in..

Cute mozart - But this I think is a new discussion, if beside soccer scouting and other non-scouting like ventures, BSA should wade into quake like psychological therapy.. I mean we all have our various opinions of psychologists, but I would no more want a shoe salesmen or bus driver (or whatever occupation your SM is in) doing psycho-therapy on my children, along with a whole gaggle of quack 12 to 18 yo's on my child.. Guarenteed to do more harm then good, and in 5 tp 10 years BSA can have another flock of lawsuits on their hands over it, as these kids mature and sues the pants off of them. If LDS wants to go into quack psychology, don't do it under the BSA label, just do it under the LDS label, after all they direct their congregation with a tight leash, just have them drag that little homo boy into a faith service so the whole congregation can "gently" play doctor on him.. Leave BSA out of it.