moosetracker

Our district is similar to Sentinel's.. A lot of times the OA has run the camporees, but half the time it is a troop (or 2 or 3 small troops working together).. OA just fills in whenever the district can't find a host Troop(s), so ends up doing it more times then any one troop. When our troop ran two, the scouts go to design everything from what the theme would be, what activities to what the design on the patch would be..The adults got the fun stuff of figuring out porta-potties etc..

I understand the pooh - pooh of the troops that are already there or beyond.. But think it is a fine idea for a help guide for troops that are faultering.. Like JTE a great unit kind of looks at it and says "d*amed paperwork" but a struggling unit can use it for a guideline.. Son & I just did the JTE paperwork for the Pack we are resurrecting.. Barely made Bronze & was surprised we even did that, considering the majority of the questions asked didn't even register at the lowest denomination.. Some of it was our fault in that we are concentrating on keeping the pack going and pulling teeth to get the adult parents to volunteer to take on some duties.. Others were just not met because the Pack had folded and really wasn't restarted until late March, and now since we only have Tigers & wolves we can't do any Webelos transition.. etc.. Well anyway, when you are far down on the rungs, and need to give your parents (who some are clueless (though the great ones make up for them), and maybe not so motivated, and definitely not moving in the same direction, with a common purpose).. Well this icky paperwork as some black and white official direction to point them in the right direction.. Once they can make it over the first hill, one would hope they can get some self-motivation and ideas and we can slowly move away from the paperwork..

Also find out who is running each district event and see if the leaders would agree to use the forums in order for people to have pre-event conversations. Like if a camporee is coming up, some of the questions and discussions.. Sort of how this forum uses an area for Jamboree discussions. This might also be used for some trainings IOLS comes to mind, if they do it the way our district does it.. We have a pre-meeting and go over the cooking & backpacking then break them into groups to discuss menus and equipment. (Syllabus doesn't set it up that way, but many districts do it this way anyway..) Well if that's how it is set up, it would be a great place for the participants to communicate with each other between the pre-meeting and the IOLS weekend. Then have the forum promoted by them, as a place to go.

I would leave it here.. Sure, it's for a Woodbadge ticket, so you might think to put it under the WB & Adult Training.. But, aside from being why you are asking the question, the subject matter of what you really want to discuss, is more appropriate to Open Discussions.. First start off promoting it at Roundtable.. Does your district do eblasts?.. Perhaps not something for it's own eblast, but mine does some with a whole variety of stuff.. Round Table is this Monday, Trainings coming up, Remember to take this survey, etc. etc.. This would be a good email to add in promoting the forum.

True, Basement did turn this into a personal attack on himself.. So did others who have bent the rules.. Strange, I have gotten the question of why can't my young son weld an ax when teaching IOLS, but seriously I have never seen any of our BS troops in the entire district go to camporees with young'uns in tow, unless they are Webelos and it's allowable to invite Webelos to stay.. Yet with all the mommys and daddys stating they bring their youngsters, and why would anyone tell them they can't, and this should be perfectly fine.. It sounds like in other Councils, you can't tell a boy scout campout from a pack campout.

I have known scouts to make their own zip lines.. We have someone who goes to troops and teaches you to make your own monkey bridges.. We go canoeing by borrowing canoes, same with kayaking (someone knows a friend who knows a friend).. Long challenging hikes or climbing a mountain might cost you a trip to the footpaths.. Even on shoestring budgets you can find things ways to do more then plop camping. Perhaps your son has backpack all his life, still have to look at what G2SS ALLOWS his age group to do.. I have had parents insist their youngster can chop wood with the best of them, it is not allowed in BSA for that age group.. Have fun at home chopping wood, look forward to seeing you in a few years.

Wondered about the dirty turkey thing, but thought it was me having a girlie reaction, and thought that maybe the frying might burn all that off.. After all I have seen and eaten a ham that was smeared in mustard, then just thrown in the fire without a pot, the ham came out pretty dirty, but they cracked the mustard off, and we ate it.. And it was good.. Didn't realize a frozen bird would cause a grease fire though.. Is that because of the water from the ice?

GeorgiaMom - Cub scouts should be more open to other siblings It is promoted as family oriented, and expects family participation. The training given to new Leaders even discusses at least for pack campouts planning a program for all siblings younger and older, not just the scouts. But even aside from pack camping, it is billed as family oriented.. Boy Scouts it is not.. But the Boy scouts do teach younger scouts.. The 10.5 to 11yo new recruits are who they train.. I also do not expect people to make other arrangements and go on troop outings.. I do expect them to stay home with their younger sons if that is who they want to spend the time with. The troop should only agree to an adult volunteer on a trip with a younger sibling in tow, only if that is the only way they can go on the outing.. This isn't a demand they find a sitter.. But, is simply a fact that the youngster in tow on a boy scout outing should be avoided if at all possible.. Not the case with Cub scouts. So, it is be a parent to your younger children first, but if that means staying home with them, or better yet doing something that interests them, then do it.. At the Pack level, they should not only accept family attendance, but plan for it. At the troop level they should not. You make your priorities and choose.. Don't feel guilty if you do not choose the troop. The 24 hours notice was uncalled for.. No one alone should be expected to shop for 100 people, that really should be divvied out to different people.. I can't believe she is the only one out of that many people with a Costco card, and if others can't be bothered helping to organize the outing, they can just deal with paying more for the food.. At the very least, considering her condition, they should have suggested if they could meet her at an arranged time at Costco, the able bodied volunteers do all the shopping and just ask if she would use her card when they were in check out.. But, that would be the very least.. I more think others going on the trip should help coordinate the outing.

Man sounds like a troop ready to implode unless you get the trouble makers out.. Between manipulative scouts and over-demanding, over-protecting parents any of your good scouts and reasonable parents will be squeezed out, unless the troop makes a decision to remove the bad apples in order to save the good ones.

Don't know about PTA groups.. Those were more pressured to stop their sponsorship over the fact atheists weren't allowed in, that hasn't changed. Other liberal groups who were are not sponsoring due to the gay issue would also tend hold out until the ban on Adult homosexuals was lifted also. I mean if there soul decision rests on equal treatment for homosexuals, then they are going to wait until homosexuals have equal treatment. But, seriously.. If your council fostered some sort of attitude that BSA was a "conservatives only" club.. Then it is now living with the damage that it created.

Thanks, but No thanks... Don't get me wrong, loved them coming, in 5 to 10 years would love to have them back, but it was too much to fast.. We were suppose to host them one year, have a break for a year, then host them again.. The first year did the scouts in, because the council was not prepared for such a large turn-out.. Council abused their service, 5 hours service then half a day off to enjoy part of the show turned into 10 hours of service with no breaks and expecting them to put in the same time the next day.. Our troop worked half the 2nd day then walked out when their volunteer shift officially ended. On top of that they promised to cater for the scouts who volunteered, they gave them nothing for lunch (go find it yourself on some 1/2 hour break).. Then Dinner was really, really bad.. hockey puck.. They were promised water & outhouses at the camp area.. It turned out to be one garden hose, and not enough outhouses for the people there.. The 2nd year was not the Blue Angels, it was an air force show but not Blue Angels.. They saw the turnout of our first year and somehow got the council to agree to run a show during the year we were to have a break.. Scouts did not want to volunteer for 2nd year, even though Council promised better, no one trusted them. I heard it was better, but don't know who they got to volunteer. By the 3rd year everyone was really, really tired of it, more scouts volunteered, having heard they had improved treatment of the volunteer force the year before, but after 3 years in a row those who came to the show had dwindled.. The first year it had been like 15 years since they came to our neck of the woods, by the 3rd year people had seen them or thought it would be yearly and they could catch it next year if they wanted to.. Daniel Webster Council (at least the volunteers in DWC) are happy for a break in the air shows.. I am sure the paid execs would love the income. Is that where he went.. They (or is that you??) can have him.. Bye, bye.. Good riddance.. Our new DE, only time will tell, but everyone is hopeful he is more program oriented.. Wish the old DE could have move about 3 or 4 months faster, we might have not lost a great program oriented DE due to politics and back stabbing.. If he had moved 6 to 8 months faster, we might have not lost a great camp Head Ranger due to politics and back stabbing (although his job loss turned into a very fortunate opportunity for him). When you only have 9 districts and go through 24 DE's in the course of two years.. Something is wrong, and it was not the DE's..

Thanks, but No thanks... Don't get me wrong, loved them coming, in 5 to 10 years would love to have them back, but it was too much to fast.. We were suppose to host them one year, have a break for a year, then host them again.. The first year did the scouts in, because the council was not prepared for such a large turn-out.. Council abused their service, 5 hours service then half a day off to enjoy part of the show turned into 10 hours of service with no breaks and expecting them to put in the same time the next day.. Our troop worked half the 2nd day then walked out when their volunteer shift officially ended. On top of that they promised to cater for the scouts who volunteered, they gave them nothing for lunch (go find it yourself on some 1/2 hour break).. Then Dinner was really, really bad.. hockey puck.. They were promised water & outhouses at the camp area.. It turned out to be one garden hose, and not enough outhouses for the people there.. The 2nd year was not the Blue Angels, it was an air force show but not Blue Angels.. They saw the turnout of our first year and somehow got the council to agree to run a show during the year we were to have a break.. Scouts did not want to volunteer for 2nd year, even though Council promised better, no one trusted them. I heard it was better, but don't know who they got to volunteer. By the 3rd year everyone was really, really tired of it, more scouts volunteered, having heard they had improved treatment of the volunteer force the year before, but after 3 years in a row those who came to the show had dwindled.. The first year it had been like 15 years since they came to our neck of the woods, by the 3rd year people had seen them or thought it would be yearly and they could catch it next year if they wanted to.. Daniel Webster Council (at least the volunteers in DWC) are happy for a break in the air shows.. I am sure the paid execs would love the income.

If troop is run right, should be things above his physical ability or that if you go with an outfitter they would say "no" to due to age and that BSA also says "no" to due to age, white water rafting (try talking them into taking a 7 year old), rock climbing, long hikes, backpacking, long bike hikes, zip lines, canoe or kayaking trips etc. etc.. So yeah "Big boy" stuff.

Fine then invite all the parents and all the siblings on the Troop outings.

Thanks Scouter99, this is more definitive then the chart of who can do what at what age..

No, there are two Threads with the same name one got moved from Open discussion to New to scouting, the other started out in the New to scouting area.. So if you open up "New to scouting" subject, you will find the other one, and your comments are all in there.. The other thread I expanded on it further.. Yours was probably because your troop was hard up, and you had no other option for your son if you went.. It would not be something I would see as the best solution. But, sometimes you bend the rules to keep a program going.. If the program isn't hard up, and the ASM is not doing it to help the troop and the boys in the troop as best they could, But, there is no reason to bend the rules because some parent thinks he can not bond with his son in cub scouts, but needs to speed up his maturity so they can bond in more "manly" stuff.. Well, then why not open the door for all the boys in the pack, so that all the parents can make their boys feel extra special being able to do "big boy" stuff.

Ahhhh... That sounds fun too.. I kind of had something like that in the back of my mind for a few years from now. Right now with only a Tiger den and a wolf den, something like that will wait a few years so that we can have more then two den tables.. But if they stay on task to make this a fun pack they will get there.. Next year perhaps we will do a bunch of minute to win it style games that have a Christmas theme, I found enough of those to have those for two years without repeating a single game.. But also Christmas caroling might be a different, fun idea, then coming back for hot chocolate.. So far we haven't gotten a family who does not celebrate Christmas. A non-Christmas thought, but it depends on snow which for the past 5 years is rare around here in December is to have them build snow forts and and outside snowball fight, or some sort of snowman building contest between dens.

Last year I suspected people gone, but had no official word, and they didn't answer emails or phone calls.. But it was due to a blowup, that happened after they paid for the years recharter.. I have money, you aren't going to tell me you are not going to recharter, so that you can get your money back.. Well they were put on the charter. I kindof thought it would be unethical for the pack to keep the money and use it for other purposes then intended, and the people were given opportunity to verbally tell us they wanted a refund. Their problem, I didn't loose sleep over it.. I even was nice enough to leave them on emails inviting them to the jan & feb pack meetings, then I slowly faded out of sending communications. Qwazse- What "reindeer games" did you play? Our Dec. meeting is also a Christmas party. We are pretty planned out, but any new ideas that we may use for next year will be helpful. The Pack is new, and I don't want it falling into doing the same old same old for each month.. This year it is a Christmas party, with an overnight sleepover at the church. But, if we do a sleepover next year, it will not be in December. We are lucking out that our pack meeting will be on a night of a meteor shower. So we are hoping for a clear star studded night. We have binoculars, to do that piece of an astronomy belt loop activity, but that is all we will do, as the rest of the belt loop seems to be a sleeper for doing at a party.. Also helping for a cold night. We want to blow bubbles outside and if cold enough the bubbles are suppose to freeze like frosted windows, if real cold they even break like glass (so I am told.), The one I am most looking forward to though is the levitating orb.. Floating Christmas tree tinsel over a pvc pipe by rubbing the pvc pipe in your hair and giving it static (I had to order the tinsel though, you needed real thin tinsel. I was surprised I couldn't find stores selling any tinsel).. We are doing and indoor snowball fight, maybe we'll make taffy (but I have to first try it at home.).. A few other things. A lot of prep-work for this, but I am very excited about it. Cross-fingers on the two that will depend on weather.. By the way any ideas to make cheap easy bubble blower wands.. I am looking at maybe just using zip ties creating a loop at one end. the rest being the handle.

Not only that, although troops are different.. I know in my sons' troop, the older boys had some difficulty with the younger incoming scouts.. Sometimes the little guys were fine, and cool.. But, if they start whining, or being too goofy or are reluctant about doing work, or make an extra mess and then walk off for someone else to fix.. That's for 10.5 to 11 year olds.. They just wouldn't be more tolerant for a kid of 6 or 7 who shouldn't even be on the trip. Then also my sons' troop for a long time had great SM's but the last year (and for several years after) they had a SM who was there for his sons only.. Everything was for their son's advancement, what their son wanted to do, it was just known.. It was not well received.. Even when he was not SM but just ASM and he wiggled for the privilege of his sons the boys knew it, and it was not well received. This guy was SM for over 5 years, and except for his sons ECOH's all the other scouts who made eagle called and asked for past SM's to please come back to be part of their ceremony and either gave the current SM nothing in the program to do, or they gave them something very minimal, and only because some adult said it was not courteous to not give him a part in the program.. His son's really did not fare much better in the minds of the boys in this troop.. They were not seen as 'earning' their eagle, but more having the road paved for them by Daddy.. So, yes, it is my inferring my own personal history to this story, but at least I have got the OP statement, and I am not making backstories up about "What if".. But, if the outing is not about his interest in the boys of the troop having a good trip, or the good of the troop, and nothing this being the only option, there being no other.. But, simply that bringing his scout to something he is really not old enough to be at, is all about his relationship with his son.. Then, sorry, this would be an ASM I would not ask to attend the event unless he was the last option. He is not there for the benefit of the troop. Boy's of a troop know when their adult Leaders are giving their son unfair preferential treatment, that the only reason they take a position is to give their son's some preferential treatment. Their resentment does not go away with time, it just gets worse. Now, if you did bring your son's to a BS outing due to it being the only option you had, and you thought it was best for the troop and best for the boys of the troop, to deal with your young child then miss the trip.. I would think the boys of your troop will figure it out. It would be through your young child only coming when it was absolutely necessary, not whenever possible. It would be with you working to keep the child occupied and out of the older boys way, rather then expecting the older boys to curtail their plans to cater to him, or to expect them to take him with whenever possible. It would be by you verbally and in deed, showing them that the trip was all about the Boys in the troop, and not about getting your young son to be a boys scout years before he was mentally and physically and maturity wise ready to be. Bottom line, your reasoning for bringing young child with you is key.. If it is for the benefit of your young son and you.. Then you have lost me.. BSA rules aren't bent for those reason.. BSA rules are enforced, emboldened, and printed on your forehead.

It's a nice plan Eagle92, but you have to remember that our Adult Leaders are not educational professionals.. They kind of fall into the schoolwork stuff because they don't know how to work with youth, so they go back to what they know from their school years.. What you talk about would take a very creative educational professional to pull off, someone who knows the outdoors well and creative teaching methods for Personal Management and can marry the two.. Me personally I stay away from Personal Management, not my bailiwick,, Some scout somehow got the impression I did Personal Management and ask if I would be his councilor, the group of Adult Leaders around me fell down laughing.. I have this feeling some other Adult leader set this poor kid up as a prank..

Seems like traffic cones would resist being knocked over.. Do you deep fry the bird. I never cooked it frozen even for deep fry, how long does it take to cook?

Well they do as for not only your ID# but also your council.. Perhaps that's it, not sure.. I am more concerned about the mess of moving all the scouts advancements and all the Adult leaders Trainings.. What a mess.. But seriously our Council numbers are only two groups.. Like they were assigned a number grouping, used it up, and have now been working the new number groupings.. You either are in 61##### and then they stop that number grouping abruptly and then only have people within the group numbers of 128######

And... AGAIN where does the OP have any back story like the one you just gave Jblake.. Again.. he just states he want to take his wolf son on troop events for the "fun" of it..

jblake my comment was mostly to Basement, who stated my argument did not hold water, because he took his son in a situation where the troop was dieing out and it was him and his son, or the event didn't happen.. Which I am stating my argument isn't against him because he meets my exclusion of the troop better be in dire need to agree to this.. But, that holds with your statement also.. You both are making up these "maybe" statements of talking yourself into a scenario that it is perfectly acceptable due to the troop is in dire need, if he doesn't go the trip is canceled and the troop folds.. Which I state, that is the only reason to even consider this.. BUT.. the OP does not say one word, that anything like that is the reason.. It is just because thinks it would be great to spend time with wolf scout in this environment. That is all the reasoning he is presenting.. You guys are supplying the what-if dying troop scenarios in order to give him the green light.

Why not just invite the whole pack out on your troop outings.. There are rules against anyone except Webelos staying overnight on a troop outing, and then only with a parent present.. But, our troops can ask the younger scouts to the daytime part of an event, but they can not spend the night.. I guess they could if the Pack calls it a Pack campout, and we just happen to be camping next to the troop.. But it has to be a full authorized Pack campout, not just the wolf den, or a lone wolf scout, whose parent is trying to use their position to sneak him into something that he is not of an age to be attending. You don't like your Packs activities, work to change it, Have a pack campout every month if you live in the warmer climates, if live in the north, sorry but it is cabin camping or no camping from October to May.