moosetracker

This district is so riled up already by the other volunteers on the committee, I would need to work very hard at being aggressive to be considered just one of the gang.. Who knows, maybe their behavior and attitude will rub off on me over time.. Wont you just love that!! BadenP, you also have an "agressive my way is the only way attitude".. (Love it)..

Eagledad - it took me a while to understand this post. I may have gotten some of it wrong, but this is my interpretation.. (I know others will correct me if I am wrong).. In the post he mentions "Direct Contact leaders" then starts using "DC" (In other post DC stood for other things. But this is what I think "DC" means here.). they goes on to say.. "that means SMs have to have This is Scouting".. So I think for him "DC" stands for SM & ASM, only.. This does Not even include Committee members who work with youth like your Advancement Coordinator, or Outdoors coordinator. I did not know what "NYLT" was myself.. But I think it is similar to "JLT" because it is tied to SPL & ASPL. We have a week long camp "JLT" offered around here, so I figure it is something like this. Some units do have lots of money through great fundraisers they have dreamed up. Then they have the problem of where to spend the cash so that they stay non-profit.. I would hope if a troop makes these things mandatory they have the cash to pay for it for these people. And that they have super duper fundraisers so that eraning the money is quick and painless. the scout shouldn't be busting his butt to pay for other peoples training, rather then out having fun.. Aside from that.. if you got the funds, go for it.. All the power to you.. Must of us units just would not have the luxery to make things like this mandatory.

A Venture crew starting up and getting their members by stealing the troops older boys.. "You can make eagle here as well as there, no uniforms, girls, and no younger scouts to look after".. Strangely enough the troop was able to retaliate and finally wiped out the crew because the parents of the boys they won over were loyal to the troop refused to participate in the crew. The crew couldn't continue without adult leadership. They planned on the adult leadership coming with the boys. Sad for both parties. If the crew had done things right they could have had a friendship. Currently the troop has a SM that the boys don't like, don't respect, cannot guide them, Does not know how to delegate and will not allow help from his ASM or any other adults... etc. Nice guy, He tries, but his personality is just wrong for the position. COR & CC wont remove him because they don't want to hurt his feelings or his son's. Therefore the other boys and adults are leaving for other troops.

In our troop The SM & ASM get the training needed by for the position of SM & ASM before they can even take the position.. Why do you think "SM is about the only position that DOES NOT NEED ANY TYPE OF TRAINING TO TAKE THE BOYS ON OUTINGS".. BSA policy have a training list for SM.. So it will be required by National that to re-register yearly you need to have the training specified for your job description. ALL members involved in interacting with our youth MUST TAKE YOUTH PROTECTION.. This includes those who are SM, ASM, committee members and merit badge counsilors. This is a required training course for any position you take per BSA policy, not our troops policy.. It is THAT important... The SM & ASM are FULLY TRAINED before they get the position of SM & ASM.. Our troop goes the extra mile in this fashion: Any other adults who go on events must take all training required for the SM position that is on-line before going on any event. (That's Youth Protection, This is scouting, Fast Start).. They are on one year probation to get the two courses that are not on-line. SM Specifics and Outdoor leader training.. That way if a parent of a new scout wants to go with their scout on their first event, they can be trained enough to go, but will loose that priviledge if they do not take the requirements for training seriously and do not finish it up in a year. When we had about 20 parents going on all the events the Scoutmaster had issues with the adults not the kids and requested this policy. Now our adult participation is small. I suggested relaxing the policy so that we had more parents helping, the SM will not hear of it... It is that important to him to have knowledgable adults and not "party-goers" on the outings. If you think Youth-protection is a joke, please work in a committee job that does not have you interacting with our youth.. But in a few years don't expect to be able to re-register with the new charter without it.. It is THAT important.!!!

BadenP. I think your anger at me on the other thread, has caused you not to read this one very well. If you made this comment after my first or second message, you might be making sense. Currently the issue went from me thinking that the DE was a position above the DC due to the fact the DE is interviewing the canadates for the committee positions and the DC is not involved at all. The more I talked with people the more they made me realize that the DE should not be involved in the committee member positions at all. I have benifited from the knowledge of this group and have been listening to what they have to teach me, about the district relations.. But, have done an about fact on how to handle it. And that can be seen slowly throught the discussions and the posting. I guess at district you do not approach the people with the problems, I should be talking not to them but about them to other people. That is not my way. If I can not talk to your face, I will not talk behind your back to your superiors. So I have decide to talk to no one.. So your post that I am going to be thrown out on my ear, for not talking with anyone, and hoping that the DE's superior from council will deal with the issue, just does not make sense. And saying I have an "an agressive my way is the only way attitude".. When I just went through so many post talking to and listening to and altering my perspective based on what I learned, does not make any sense. Also I am not on probation. There is just so many vacancies because so many people have abandoned their positions, no one is around to appoint anyone anything.. That can be figured out if you had followed the entire conversation also. Seriously I think you are just upset because of the other thread, read the first one or two posts and are trying to stir up a confrontation on this thread.

Thanks for everyones support.. But, in all fairness I did by mistake start the bitter feud between BadenP and myself. He hit a nerve in me and I unfairly said something that got his dander up.. I have been trying to apologize ever since, while defending my stance, but I guess I really ticked him off. I love this discussion, but if BadenP, would again please accept my appology for my first comment, I would love to get this back onto an intellectual debate rather then anyone feeling they are personnally being attacked. I think we have already frightened off Nike, who was the original poster with BadenP & my bickering.. BadenP: I will agree with you that WB can not be pushed onto anyone. It is only for those who wish to go that extra mile.. It does cost money and it does cost time. But I disagree that WB or the programs designed for SM & ASM are not benificial to the committee. I will agree with you that the program designed for the Committee is insufficent as it is. If they did design a great training program giving committee members what they need, they would not have to go to the SM specific program for the information they need to run the committee, they would not have to sit through things not so beneficial to pull this information, and their program could be supplimented for important information designed specifically for them. But, with out this program designed, I still say get it where you can, and currently that is in the program designed for the SM. That is the best compromise I can make to try again, to bury the hatchet with you. It's up to you to accept it or not.

Nope, not one knot.. I thought about it while helping other adult leaders earn theirs, but truely it was not worth the time or effort. I do have a sprinkling of mentor pins given to me by not my son, but other Eagle scouts our family took an interest in helping by either becoming thier scouting parents because they lacked parent involvement, or by being their trail-to-eagle guide. Those mean more to me then any knot ever would, so please think before you attack them with more negativity. It would be like personally attacking my son to me. But, yes I do take pride in them. My husband has scouting history, I never did until my son joined. So is it lack of scouting experience?? BINGO.. The shell shock of what horrors my husband and I put my son through in that first troop due to our lack of scouting experience will haunt me all of my days. The way he manipulated the minds of the adults into thinking he was building the strongest and best scouts. After that, the need to protect the youth of my unit is now my driving force for pushing training for all adult leaders. Do I push Woodbadge? No.. Not even to SM or ASM, seems while in the position they are already committing too much personal time to scouting to add to it WB training. But, I definately do push the other training, and I welcome anyone who wants to commit to Woodbadge training. But, yes it is expensive and time consuming.. So no, you don't push it.. But go back to the original question. The original poster, he WANTS to take woodbadge. We disagree in the fact the Communication & teambuilding and organizational management skill help everyone in the troop. But, I doubt a person looking for a reason to go, because he really wants to go, will think the expierience worthless. And maybe you Council has on it's informational form for WB a disclaimer to be helpful to anyone not in an SM or ASM position. But, boy my Council's informational Flyer does not. Here is a direct quote. " The leadership skills one learns in Wood Badge are not only applicable to Scouting, but also to the growth of the individual and the roles in life they fill, professionally and at home. To the Scout Leader, Wood Badge often makes the difference between offering a mere form of entertainment or providing a program which will have a profound influence on the lives of boys and girls. To all Scouters, the Wood Badge experience teaches those skills of leadership and management that enable us to become truly effective in our work with others. "

I will have to take your word for it. The old WB was around, but I was personnally not ready to take WB until the new WB came out. So I don't have anything to compare the new WB with.

Eagledad thank-you, It is important for the committee to be well trained. But wouldnt you agree that SM & ASM should have WB also to help with their communication and team building of the youth members? The required training for a committee member is a start, but insufficient. Scoutmaster Specific Important for SM & ASM yes, but important for committee members also.. This is where the true BSA program is defined especially for the troop meetings. How can you make good policy guides if you dont know the goal of scouting. What BSA policies are in Black and White, and which ones you can alter for your units specific needs? The SM may come to the committee meeting, if the committee is untrained you have 2 outcomes. The SM runs the committee, or the committee doesnt understand the problems of the SM and makes policies that do not help him. Outdoor training Important for SM, ASM yes, but important for anyone wanting to go on the events. If all Adults on an event know the safety rules they can keep the youth and others on the event safe by practicing the rules themselves, in guiding a youth so the youth is safe, and by stepping in to advert a potential disaster if they see a youth not following the safety rules. Important to Committee members who dont go on events so that they can make sound policy that insures the safety of the unit and again so that they understand better the challenges facing the SM. Woodbadge This is communication, teamwork and management. Good for everyone. I just dont see where it would not be. What if you need to replace an SM or ASM? Wouldnt it be great if your candidates from the committee were already on their way to being fully trained to do the job? Knowledge is Power. The more trained you are the more you can make sure the program is the best that it can be. I love a well trained unit.. It keeps opinionated people like me from making the program my way or the highway because all the other well trained adults in my unit are just as opinionated as me and they will keep me in my place. I love the challenge.

Best projects are when the scout feels true ownership, and sense of purpose for the project. Have him choose a group of people whom he respects and who know him personally to brainstorm with him.. Scouting or other, young or adult. Look at what he likes to do outside of scouts, hobbies, extra curricular, school programs etc. Then have others jot down whatever ideas then can be generated as to what could benefit the community or a non-profit group. Once he has a list, he can canvas to see if there are any needs for those ideas he truely loved. Now he is not stuck with a project that he could care less for, and will be excited to do it. Maybe if you are too close to personally to your son & his success in scouting, it is time to again ask your son to figure out who aside from the SM & relatives in the troop he respects and suggest he ask them to be his Eagle guide. You can relax and not be the driving force, but you will feel better that your son is getting good guidence from an impartial source. This will make for better relations for you & your son, because he is probably at an age he doesn't want his parent to push him, and will keep anyone in the troop from accusing you of doing the project for your son. SM may be fine, but normally they have too much responsibility as is, and may not have enough time for it.

No I am new to the District. I have been involved with the Pack and troop committee since my boy was a tiger and through to currently at 19 having made eagle scout. I have even served on a Venture crew. I have been the Committee Chair for the troop & the Venture crew. I am sorry, if this is not what you were getting at, but saying that Woodbadge would cause committee members to feel better then others or to brag about tickets, and other to feel left out is unfair. And why so a committee member but not the SM or ASM? Basically we had committee members take woodbadge if they felt it worth their paying for it themselves. Those that did not feel the need did not. We never voted who could take it and who could not. There were no noses out of joint. None of our SM or ASM that I have ever felt the need to take WB, even though the troop would have paid for it for them. My first troop no one was encouraged to be trained but the SM and he told everyone that BSA rules were this and BSA rules were that.. When we moved to another troop and took training we found out that he had made up his own rules, and was doing things that were even against BSA policy. It took years before he was finally pulled out of scouts by the council for his practices. Why did he get away with it so long. Several reasons, when I brought it to council attention, I was no longer in the troop, they said that it would need to be a complaint from someone in the troop. Those who I knew in the troop who were having problems veiwed him as too powerful, and feared anyone at council level. Those that did not have a problem followed him blindly. In the meantime he had years where he brought in about 40 boys a year and chose 8-10 as the cream of the crop, and belittled the boys he did not want until they left with very low self esteems. The few boys that stayed regardless of the SM not wanting them, were left out of the elite sub group he had formed, and were given unfair "extra" requirements they needed to accomplish to make eagle. He monitored it to make sure they never could meet the requirements by adding new ones if they did, until they lost the ability to make eagle rank. Even though they had met all the BSA requirements for Eagle. Since then I have taken a stance that everyone SM & ASM should be trained with everything.. I was training chair for a while in the last troop I was in and everyone that went on events had to be fully trained not at committee level but at SM level.. Committee not going on events had to be trained at Committee level.. (This was requested by our SM at the time, because too many parents went on events for their own fun, and he was babysitting them more the the boys).. Learn, Learn and learn more.. That is the only way to know what is black and white and what the committee is able to alter for their specific unit. That is the only way to know how we can make policy and organize events to allow the unit to run at it's smoothest. Yes you did say that the person personally could benifit from the training, but the training would not be benificial as a committee member. I say take all the training you can get. Everything you take will be benifical to you as a committee member. Again sorry if you feel I was out of line.

Good point moxieman!! Yes, Yes, Yes, make sure the CO appoints a represenative that takes an interest in the unit. If they attend the committee meetings & a few events. Lot's of times the falling out between SM, ASM and the committee are adverted when they know they both have a boss that can pull them both in line. Otherwise alot of times the SM & ASM feel they do not need to listen to the committee, they think they are the head of not only the boys but the whole unit, and the committee works for them. Most times this is the reason the two groups stop working with each other. Truely they are equals the committee help organize for the SM so things run smoothly, but the SM must report to the committee and they can vote for changes to the program.. (this comment probably will get critasiam, but yes) they do not carry out the program for the youth, and BSA gives you the main guidelines.. but their are many small details that are up to the troop and if they are not running well the Committee can choose a change. (example: the boys are not paying their dues. We want to add the rule that a boy can not attend an event unless their dues is paid up. Or boys are getting jobs like "the bugaler position" they do nothing but get the credit at the end of the 6 months. The boys need to know up front they will not get credit unless they do the job, and we expect the SM to follow through and not credit it with something they did not do.) Things like that. Anyway without a person above these two positions things get out of whack real quick.

Thank-you BBender.. You have eased my mind. I believe the power point you mentioned is what I saw in the Council roundtable (or whatever you call it, I still am unsure of the actual names of things), forgive my greenness. The statement you made about "...and we are now in a position to confirm that the leader materials and training needed to support the change in delivery method will be completed and in local council service centers between April 30 and May 7, 2010" Also sounds like what I heard at the meeting.. The statement wording sounds familure.. But I really thought it stated April 13 or 15.. I must be wrong though.. Hmmm.. disappointing, because I am sure they planned on rolling out more information to us at the District Training that is this coming weekend. I hope they can scurry and come up with something else to occupy us for that meeting. They may replay the power point for the benifit of those not at the other meeting, but this took an hour. They have a full day to fill up. You sound knowledgable enough to have been one of the people in your council that presented the powerpoint.. If not, you took good notes.

We will find out tommorrow, when we meet with him. But, my guess is he is trying to find support from those of us who are too green to know better, or the members who were not being disruptive. Why? I don't know.. But, it sounds like the committee will have a say somehow in if we accept or reject the DE's choice for DC.. He is not only meeting with us privately, he is meeting with alot of committee members privately. I think he is lobbying for his choice of a DC. I fear I will be answing specifically to the DE, no matter how it "Should" be.. With the abscense of the Training Chair, the DE has been running the Training chair position himself, for years. By what he said to me "We really don't need anyone in the training chair position".. I think he wants to continue running it himself. But it is good to know that if I do email the Council Training Chair, asking for advice due to the fact I have no one else to report to, no one can accuse me of stepping out of line. This is who I should report to.. I don't think what he is doing is right, but I don't think as new & green as I am that I should put myself in the position of complaining to others in council about him.. If a group gets together to do so, I may be part of a group. But, although I am getting an inkling of why this is wrong, I am not a voice of an expierienced district scouter. In some ways it is still a "Good old boys club" especially at council level. Again I am going to hope that the guy who was visiting the committee meeting from council, will report what he saw. I do not know if he will side with the DE or the committee, but if he doesn't side with the committee, then my going to council after the fact to complain will do nothing. If he reports that the committee is at fault not the DE, then I am doing nothing but sticking my neck out to get it chopped off. If he reports the DE is wrong, then the council has heard from someone with the experience. If they don't act on it, then what I say will be of no importance. I have only attended the same committee meeting he attended. He should know better then me who is doing wrong and why.

I agree with Beavah.. I have had my share of wonderful experiences and horror stories.. The strong success of a Pack or troop is based on the adult leaders. Even in a troop or crew where it is to be youth lead, our youth need good guidence and people doing the organization of the events. If you have choose a scoutmaster souly because they are the only one to take the job, rather then having a selection of canadites that you can choose the best from,you may get someone in the position that does not have the right personality. If the SM can not make the program fun, the boys will drift. If the committee cannot get the events organized so that the events become just broken promises, the program suffers.. Some troops fold, others grow and shrink in waves depending on the adult volunteers.. Other things may be the committee & SM/ASM or CM/ACM not being able to work together and their discourse effecting the program they are trying to deliver. That is not to say that arguements are not expected. Passionate arguements are the sign of people with different view who care to make the program the best it can be. It is just that in the end a compromise must be found, excepted and people must then forgive and forget anything said in anger. The lack of passion or people "just going through the motions", or one or a few people trained in the unit and everyone else untrained and following like sheep is not healthy either. The more trained everyone is from SM to the smallest person in the committee, the stronger the unit will be.

I'm glad to hear that the true program will not be so rigid. That is a relief thank-you. Currently our training committee has alot of trainers and no one doing any of the other position, training chair open, VP to training chair open, registrar of training records open, Troop/Pack/Venture coordinators open/open/open.. Then lots of trainers. And no one has been interested in these positions for years, and no one currently is interested in any of these positions but me.. Oh yes and we have no District Chair.. So currently I am unassigned to anything, until the district gets someone to take DC.. And yes I am green, but what ever position I get, it will only be me, myself & I in a position above that of the trainers.. But I have taken all the training for committee and Scoutmaster positions not once but 3 or more times in a person-to-person class and multiple times since on-line for those on-line. The reason I return for another session? Because of the impact the training has on knowledge I receive due to who is delivering, how they are delivering it, and their personal experience they bring to it.. Also the questions asked by the participants has alot to do with the knowledge I got out of the training. There have been trainers I disagreed with totally due to their viewpoint and the effect it had on what they taught & how they taught it. Every single class I went to was very, very different even the third time I took the class. Even the on-line youth protection I have taken multiple times, and when the update the video, what I learn from it is different. The on-line unit commissioner training is 90% personal viewpoint and experience from unit commissioners video-taped. You can not answer the questions from the audience out of a textbook, if the textbook doesn't address it. And they may get the flow of the training from the book, but no one has memorized anything word for word out of it, or sit there and read to us from a book.. Of course a personal slant is going to be placed on the training you get.

Again, there is no DC and no Training Chair at this time, and may not be for some time. Whatever position I take I will be the highest position on the District training staff until other people want to join the staff. Oh my husband is excited about his future position he has been on the Advancement Eagle board for a while, and likes the idea of doing the Advancement Chair position, although it sounds like alot. Both of us may not be official in anything until a DC is position. I am beginning to figure out what you say about the DE & the DC, and I am more aware of why the committee is upset due to this thread. Until now I thought the DC worked for the DE.. That is because of how the DE acts, he is definately making the decisions as to who will do what jobs on the committee, both in highering, fireing & repositioning. I was interveiwed by him, not the DC for the position of Training Chair, the DC wasn't even there. He is also the sole person who decided who he wanted for the new DC, and probably the old DC is stepping down due to the DE deciding he didn't want him there anymore and made it impossible for him to do his job.. Nope the more I am understanding, the more I am believing this is something someone higher up the food chain must solve That is because DE has already angered the committee about his interferance, yet he is definatly not showing any signs of changing his way. If he is unwilling to change his stance on running the committee, the committee will be unwilling to offer him a chance to change. The DE will need to get the order from his superior to change, or be relocated. I would imagine others in the committee, the old DC and others have approached the right people to talk to about the issue in the council.. I am too new to get involved.. Yet still I have to meet with the DE with just my husband & I to discuss the issue of the disturbance in the committee meeting we witnessed. The DE will probably be trying to swing us to his side of the cause, and I will refuse to be a part of him running the committee his way if he should not be there. So what I will say I don't know, but it won't be blind agreement with him.

I had to post to disagree with BadenP. You sound like a SM or ASM who have great conflict, someone who thinks an ignorant committee allows the SM & ASM hold the power because they will not question your word. I am from a family of scouters, my husband & son (19 YO) have been on the SM team and in the committee both.. (Yes, at 19 my son is officially on paper and ASM, but is doing the Outdoor coordinator job on the committee and is the only young person who has been give the right to vote.) I have stayed only in the committee. We have all taken WB.. My son is working on his tickets now. Our troop put in rules that anyone who was going to go on events with the boys needed to have ALL the training that a SM & ASM need. There were too many parents that were going for the Adult bonding, and knew nothing about scouting, the SM & ASM had more concerns about the untrained parents then the scouts, either their saftey or them not being of help on the outing. This training cause a very strong troop, because the committee was as trained as the SM & ASM. So many committee members were now trained at the SM level and could then understand the SM point of view better. Arguements? Yes, but that is expected with intellegent people who are passonate on any subject. But in the end we got to the best solution and that benefited the troop and the boys. Our troop is not rich so woodbadge was never paid for by the troop.. If you wanted to shell out the money, and chose to go then, great. WB is focused on scouting, but is basically a great management training program that can help you at work and in relationships outside of scouts. It is about teamwork, and communication. That is good for anyone and everyone. We had our son go to WB even though he is young. He hopes to finish the tickets, but even if he doesn't the management training he recieved is very valuable as he goes through college.. He is much more organized and comments by his peers and teachers prove that they see him as a leader.

Not officially, "The Program", but we had a meeting for the district volunteers that had an in-depth presentation, this told us about the overall changes of the program. Like the change of themes for the the Pack meetings. But "The new Den & Pack Meeting Resource Guide" we were told would be available by April 13th or 15th.. But the web site below says May. This link also explains the new program in such detail it,gives you 2 den meetings per month for a full year for every for each rank. I do not know if the den meetings will change, or stay the same forever with the assumption that the scouts will move up through the ranks, so never revisit the same meeting again. http://media.scouting.org/cubscouts/fasttracks/ I don't know of anyone, personally, but I heard that some dens are already using them, even if there areas aren't in the piloted program.. Simply because it is available. Next Saturday we go to a full day training, and training is at whatever position you are volunteering for, so advancement staff will be trained with something important to them, Activity what is important to them etc. It is promised that the volunteers for training will be trained about this new program.. So I will have more then. But, quite a few places have already piloted the program. So they know the most first hand.

I am going into the District training, and it's all abuzz about the new program for cub scouts. Training for will start middle of this month, and the program will start in the Fall.. But, I know some places have test piloted this program. If your area has I would be curious about your views. I am going to not be doing the teaching, but the trainiers of my district will be looking at me to help organize the training program for it. Some guidence is out of a book, but alot is from my trainers having had personal experience, which they will no longer have. I just wonder if any of you have answers to questions I myself have. Positive feedback would be great, since I know we must put a positive spin on things. The Pack meetings themes moving from "Magic" or "Adventure" or whatever to being that of "trustworthy" or "Honesty" doesn't seem like you can make it a fun for the boys. How do you make these as fun as the old themes? Also I glanced the fasttrack programs they are suppose to be one for each den meeting you hold and be followed exactly. Yet the ones I read seemed to cost alot and take more time then a typical den meeting. I read 2 from weblos one was on nature, which should be just going to the woods and identification, this would have been fine alone, but they added a travel Activity badge during the same meeting. You are to take the scouts out of state on a bus trip to do identification in the woods. Well being from NH, this seems rediculous to travel out of state to go to the woods, also what bus trip would end in a forest? How do you deal with the cost for this? What is the time? The very next meeting is to go to a museum. Well that would make more sense to take an out of state bus trip for since Boston has better museums then our small cities. But, even if you don't travel, the cost of the museum ticket is more then the child's $1 a week dues. In today's economy, how do you sell the parents on the extra cost? Most den meetings are on a weeknight, both seem like all day events. So for those of you who have piloted the program, do you truely follow the den meeting suggestions to the letter? If so how do you manage to get it done in a 1 or 2 hour evening meeting, or have you started to do all day events? I have heard the majority who have piloted the new program love it.. I need people to sell me on it I guess, because I foresee issues, yet I need to sell it to my trainers, who need to sell it to the adult leaders, who need to create a great program for the boys.

At the risk of sounding thickheaded. The DE reports to the SE, the Council President meets with the SE.. the title Council President means to me he is higher then district level. So where does he fall into the hiearchy and why isn't talking to him seen as going over the DE's head? Maybe someone has already done this hence the visit from someone from the Council at the last meeting. My husband said his first District Committee meeting was brutal also, but the 2nd one (my first one) more so.. Maybe some of the disruption was for our visitors benefit. I don't know his title, but definatly higher up the food chain then the DE. So I will wait to see what happens with the committee in the next few sessions, if nothing improves then I will think about my next step. The DC is staying with the committee but stepping down from the position of DC.. So the rift between the two of them is over at least at that level. We may have a new DC next month that only a handful on the committee will respect, because he is hand picked by the DE, and has never worked on a District Committee. Or, we may have the position vacant for a while. Where that leaves me in my position I don't know. Currently I am unassigned until assigned by the new DC.. But, by the sounds of it the DE will be calling the shots if the new DE is the man he wants in the position, because the DE has already decided where I should be. So, currently I am unsure if the committee will win out an I will be the new training chair, or if the DE will win out and I will on the training staff, reporting to hmmm... no one because there is no training chair.. So if I am on the training staff and have no chair to report to, who do I report to? Wouldn't it be the DC until someone takes on the Training chair position which may still be a long, long time from now, because no one wants to be in that position. But then if the DC position is vacant for a period of time.. Who would I report to? Would it then be the DE??? Until a DC is appointed am I part of any specific committee?? Wow very confusing.

This is all interesting from a personal perspective. Our troop is loosing boys going to other troops, due to our scoutmaster. Other boys are trying to stay, but the parents say there boys after a troop meeting, have broken down in tears over the actions of the SM and how he is ruining a once great troop, but feel helpless. five more members are ready to jump to other troops if things are not fixed. All events are promised but never materialize due to the SM tasking the boys to arrange the events with no guidence, and blaming the lack of going due to disorganization on them. Advancement is not required. The meeting is basically games like capture the flag. The SM does not want any help from the committee, and will not tell the outdoor committee or anyone else what is going on so that they can help. The boys have asked the committee to replace the SM. Our unit commissioner think he should be replaced. The committee has agreed he should be replaced all but the CC & COR. Not that they think he is a good SM, but because they don't want to hurt his feelings or the feelings of his son who is in scouts. So, the two of them came up with their own plan. The CC (not the COR) is tagged with speaking to him, and they decided it best to run the troop around him and the committee is taking over parts of the troop meeting. They are moving the JLT to a different time so the committee members can go and guide the boys etc... Yes.. I know .. bad, bad, bad.. Problem is those who are suppose to now work around the SM, have been trying to support and mend fences for the SM for the 1 1/2 years he has been in the position, and are tired of it and already see it a failure. They are tasked with it, but are not gung-ho for it. It's funny because the SM knows something is up, and is avoiding the CC trying to set up a meeting with them.. For weeks he has been dodging her.. That in itself is comical. Anyway yes the COR rules, the CC is next in line. So if they want to fix the troop or sink the troop, it is their call. All that is left for those who don't like the way it is run is to relocate to a different troop/pack/crew. But in my opinion it is the boys troop, and if they are asking for the dismissal of the SM, that is major. We should be listening to them.

Some of that I got & some I didn't being so new to the district level.. I guess I should have used DC not CC (District Chair) not (committee Chair). So yes the DC was there.. From what I know there was no nominating committee, but sounds like that would be a good idea given the atmosphere rather then a choice being solely that of the DE. I did offer to do the training Chair position. But only because the whole training staff is empty down to those who do the actual training, those position are fully staffed. I probably would prefer starting in a smaller position, but no one is in any of the other positions for training, and no one is interested in any of these positions, and it has been empty like this for a LONG time.. So I didn't think I could take a lower position when no one is in above me. Since the most disruptive guy on the committee use to be the training chair, I think there is a story here. Committee members are excited about my taking the chair. I met with the DE & DC once on it, then emailed them with follow up questions. DC responded, DE not. Already knowing his non-communication with a problem, I tested the waters with a few more attempts, no response. So at the committee meeting I marched up to him and asked if he wanted me to take the position. With no way to back out, no he does not. He wants me on the training committee but wants the training chair empty because he feels I would be overwhelmed. He might be right. As I said, I would prefer starting lower, I just did not see how that would work with no one in the seat above. Wont everything still fall on me? But I foresee I will be the next "issue" when everyone is welcoming into the vacant position of chair, to discover I am not taking the position will be seen by the committee members of the DE trying to run the Committee. I might be able to smooth the waters a little, with the fact I am fine with it, but not alot. The leaving DC knows and is not happy with the DE, so the 'why' will not stay secret. Right now the committee is a twitter about another committee member who was moved by the DE by his figuring out he was unwanted by the DE not communicating to him and working around him, rather then having good communication with him. So one way or another, I fear I will be the next 'poster child' to use as an example of the DE usurping his power. Wouldn't going to the Council President, by going over the DE head? In my dealings not using the chain of command and starting with the lower positions, but going straight to the top would make me seem like someone that wants to make the DE look bad. I don't see that as making things better, and will get the DE to really hate & mistrust me as a whistle blower. That is not something I want to do at all. What is the SE? My limited council knowledge left me puzzled.. Am I right that the Council President is the head of the Council. SE sounds like Scout Executive, but what level that is at is beyond me. Someone from the Council did attend the committee meeting. I think he was observing because the DE thought there would be trouble. But, from what I heard, the DE was not expecting the level of hostility. Which is why he called us to meet with us privately. As the DE says, he does deserve some of the anger, but not all that. He feels what he tried to do was for the best of the district, but he did it wrong. The district visitor was assessing the situation. He never said much except addressed a question posed to him, and utter a shocked response when the committee said they would not welcome the recommended new DC.. Hopefully he will come back to the committee and say what I think should be said. Because I am getting the feeling you think it is not my place. I will respect your opinion. I do not know what I will say when addressing the DE directly about the problem on a one on one meeting. I know I will not play dumb to the situtation. If the district chair is just appointed I will support him where I can, but if the committee is voting him in, I will not vote him in. It's not fair to him to volunteer his time and come in to hostility toward him.

I know the UC.. But we just got one, and he was our CC until his last son made eagle then went to UC. So the distrust isn't there. I didn't know people had distrust with the UC. Anyway this is the 2nd UC I have had in 12 years of scouting, I had one for 6 months and now this old troop adult leader. I know many many many units have no UC.. I don't know if this is just a problem in our district. The first UC was our UC for 6 months. I did try to use him. I went to him while a CC in the troop that we could not get the SM to work with the committee. His solution was to stop contact with me, ignore my calls for help. I don't know if he hoped the problem would go away on it's own. I esculated the problem up the chain, and no one wanted to get involved. Therefore if the problem in their eyes was me, they got their wish. We left, along with another family whose parent was on the committee. The committee was made up of myself, my husband and the other parent. Leaving the troop with NO committee and one scoutmaster who wanted to run things without any guidence from anyone.. No other Adult leaders not even an ASM. From what I know the council let them run for the rest of the year that way, even though the SM was sleeping in the same tent with the boys (I suspected no sexual abuse, but still).. Putting them in cars with strangers who were not affiliated with the troop and many other things. I can not soully blame the UC. Since I esculated it and got the same response from everyone. I think our new UC will be good, but since I have had little contact with him, and I have had little contact with any UC, and most of our units don't have one. They are just not the first person you think of. I never thought of them as a spy.. All the help we can get is welcomed. Just when needed they have to step up and take on the difficult parts of the job.

I am new to the district committee, went to my first meeting and just got voting rights. I plan to go on the training committee. My husband has been in a district position but is taking a new position where he is new to the committee also. This was his 2nd meeting. I had met the DE several times, he is young, but friendly and is trying. Several people on the committee I have met, they are dedicated hard workers, with alot of knowledge and enthusiasm. But the meeting was very disturbing. There is serious problems between the committee & the DE. Some of what it's about I have seen. Our DE needs to learn how to communicate, especially when there is a problem. Where good communication would solve a problem, he shuts off all communication and goes off and does it his way. The CC is resigning, his last day was at this meeting, and you can tell the CC & DD are not at all friendly. For the new CC, the DE is recommending someone no one on the committee knows, and they are adament they will not accept him feeling the DE is putting in a "yes" man for himself. Three very verbal committee members made the meeting very long by disrupting it with nit-picky committee rules and regulations. I originally thought they were attacking both the CC & DE, but some comments made it a little less harsh on the CC.. They even said they want him to stay as CC. Other Committee members quietly put up with the spatting, and I feel are uncomfortable with it, and are trying to get district issues worked on around it. Those who are verbally negative, though seem to be the ones taking on the most difficult jobs or assignments. They're the shakers and the rollers and want to get the DE to stop trying to control the committee or work around them. I guess because I was an impartial observer, I was able to see things. They are on a downward spiral. I don't know what started it, but currently the DE works around the committee because of their attitude toward him, and his lack of communicating with them is due to that also. The more he does this the more angry he is making the committee.. They are somehow trying to regain power by being disruptive. The angrier they get the more disruptive they are. Which of course is not showing the DE that they are capable of running their committee. So here am I the newbie.. The DE wants to talk to my husband and I about the meeting we attended. (And I think about the person he wants to become the new CC.) Thing is hubby & I do not think a new guy should be appointed the CC. For the simple fact it is unfair to the poor guy to put him into a hostile situation simply due to his association with the DE. The situation must be solved before a new CC is appointed, unless the committee knows and respect them. But none of them want the job. I have my opinion that both the DE & committee members a good talking to. It needs to be pointed out what they are doing, and that it is not helping our district or our boys.. If they can channel all that negative energy into positive energy for the district & the boys we could be amazing. I think our DE needs to go to woodbadge (I am surprised the council wont give him the opportunity to do so, due to they don't want him taking time off from work) But this is a great place to learn teamwork & communication, and in the meantime he needs to make an effort to learn new skills with the help of the committee. The committee needs to stop disrupting the meeting and start proving they are capable of running a good meeting by positive example. And help the DE with his communication skills and teamwork by positive example. All things considered, this group has passion and enthusiasm.. It has just been set off in a negitive direction and needs to be put back on track. Would I be way out of line to butt in? I don't want to be tossed out on my ear on my second meeting. Would I be better to just be one of the quiet ones that puts up with this and hope it will blow over on it's own?