moosetracker

The other thing I see as the COR job is that the committee Chair & the SM/CM are about equals, one leads the youth & thier Assistants, one leads the Adults who support the troop, finances and certain policies and also the parental complants. Neither CC nor SM/CM have charge over the other. But the two can get into conflicts when their vision is not the same, or sometimes one needs to be fired.. Neither can fire the other. The COR's job is to mediate the conflict of the two and decide to fire someone.. They may also be the one to take the responsibility as to who they would take these two head positions then those two positions will decide who to put into the other positions.

Maybe ours is also Free for the day event. That will get one pricing off my shoulders. But I remember someone saying we are suppose to be self-sufficient, so I don't think District will reimburse me for costs of the day events, that would then end up being out of pocket expense on my part. We always plan ours with the Fall Camporee.. So if I put Course price and add that this is in addition to the charge for the event, I should be covered. Insurance should be covered too, being a Camporee. I would have thought BSA insurance would have just covered it if for being a BSA event even if not tied to a camporee. I am surprised some of you are charged for insurance.

Ok.. I know a dry boring question.. Have pity on me, I am getting some help from my trainers, but it is like pulling teeth. All other district committee members who should be my guide, are also just empty seats needing filling at this time. I sent in next years training agenda to our district Web master. He nicely put it on the page, but reminded me I need to price out the outdoor Leader, and Specific's training. I kindof know with Outdoor price of food per person (whatever that it).. Price of copies of handouts (how many pages?), price for Certificate & Card (that would be maybe 10 or 15 cents.) Specifics Training - Cost of handouts.. Cost of Certificate & Card?.. Is there any thing I am forgetting? Is there anyway I can firm up costs with little help? I know if somewhere down the pike, they want my help in printing the handouts & buying the food, someone will have to clue me in on what food they want purchased, and hand me a set of the printouts. But, with summer upon us, I doubt I will see it before Fall. I should price it before then.

No.. at least not my meaning.. A little kick in the butt is a good thing now and then. Parents / Scoutmaster / Advancment coordinator whatever.. At the beginning of the road, or at the end of the road.. Advice from a parent that meeting a early goal would be a good idea because of A, B, C.. Ok.. If the son, sees the wisdom in it and WANTS to do it.. Great.. But, if the boy doesn't want it, then when he starts getting into his rebellious years, and he is rebelling against anything the parents are pushing on him that he doesn't want.. Then Scouting will be on the list. I am not against nudging.. But.. Parents in this mode early and the boy not being in the same mode, will tend to DO FOR.. "Let me help you with that report", "Let me finish this project for you." etc.. Can you then say the scout met the requirements? By the time the boy is pushing 17 - you may nudge, nag, and push, the scout is going to do it his own way regardless.. By then he will also tell the parent "Hands off". Also a new cross-over parent talking to the troop to tell them to alter their program to be focused on Advancement, because of your goal to see your boy fast track. Will be simply taken as advice from a parent who has not learned the ropes yet..

Lance, Number 1) This should be you son's goal not yours. Number 2) Merit badges can continue through out the year, but don't expect it to be the duty of the troop to provide them.. Your district has merit badge counsilor lists.. Your son should be able to go ask the advancement coordinator of the troop for the Names of counsilors that do what ever MB he wants to take on.. The name should come with the town the councilor is from and the phone number... The BOY should make the contact by phone, and set up times to meet.. While my son was not of driving age, he may hand the phone to me to get the directions on how to get to where ever we met up.. And I had to be around so when times were worked out, I could say if it met my schedule or not.. But for the most part, it is the boys job to find the MB counsilor, contact the MB counsilor, and set up the appointment.. Word of warning the MB list may or may not be up-to-date, depending on the ability of the volunteer in the district who is taking care of it, he may have to call 3 or 4 places to get someone who is still a MB counsilor.. If you SON wishes to advance fast pace, he must have the ambition to, the troop should not spoon feed him in being fast paced. The troop has other things to focus on and is there for all the boys, other boys do not want to concentrate on advancement.

mpaull - go easy on yourself, obviously you are having a mental breakdown! As for your group ups.. Well you would need to only list one on the rechartering register, as that shouldn't be allowed per BSA policy. (I won't say wouldn't as obviously, my Roster proves that they can list you that way) At least they aren't their own assistants, So the doing of the two jobs is feesable. But BSA (for some reason) does not want those in the field (SM,CM,DL,CM..etc.) to be voting committee members.. So you kindof end up with that scenerio being both in the field and on the committee. I guess they the policy is there so those in the field don't out vote those who are just in the committee. I know those in the field would have stronger opinions being that they would have to enforce some of the decisions, but because they have the opinions & they would need to enforce it, I am not sure why giving them the vote is such a bad thing. One of those committee things that baffled me, and are not explained in the (in my opinion less then helpful dribble they offer for Troop Committee Challenge.) Everything they think you should learn is fairly common sense. They leave out the important stuff, Like the relationship between COR, CC & SM/CM.. What is BSA policy, what should be left to SM or patrol council, what should be regulated by committee.. etc.

"Some" boys may make Eagle early, but unless the boy is exceptionally gifted, this should not be the push for the troop. I once heard an SM brag loudly.. "I just had 8 scouts in my troop make eagle before the age of 13." The whole room went quite.. It was not from being impressed with his accomplishments either. If your scouts are consistantly making eagle at a young age, you are NOT running your program right. If you do make it by 13 or 14, I would suggest you just state you made eagle and not use your age as bragging rights. You may have been one of those rare exceptional kids. But, many in the scouting program will question if you truely earned it.. Not to your face, but silently. We have a many boys right down to the wire with spitting distance to their 18th birthdate. But, our troop tries to encourage them to aim for about 16.. When they start getting into girls, cars, and jobs, and work for college entrance.. It is much harder to also fit in the Eagle project.. Many of our boys do it, but then they are on the front line telling their friends not to follow in their footsteps.

Our District use to hold district level JLT.. Then stopped. My troop was too dependent on it. When they stopped.. It was "canceled this year we will have it next year.." "canceled again.. For sure next year".. "Canceled." Our troop during this time, did no training, just gripped about the cancellations. One of my woodbadge tickets was doing the JLT for the troop to kick them into self-relience.. Unfortunatly, then they changed to TLT, and our troop is floundering again. I suggested that Scouting U.. offer to the SM & SPL not the TLT course, but guidelines on "How to run their own TLT course at troop level." I think it should be run at troop level to give the youth leaders a chance to bond.. But, the troops need more then be handed a book. I find most Leaders of troops are very unconfident with just this as their guide. Talk to them, give them personal example, give them a way to envision the day.. They will be much more confident about going and doing.

Still, even if all the entries isn't in, they can print him out a report and tell him to not go looking for entries from date A - current, because they have yet to be entered.. Then CNY can get a start on HIS "voluntary".. "I'm helping you guys out.. Please meet me half way" Job.. I don't know if CNY's advancement has gone on-line yet. Ours is. If it is, that use to be the job of the Registrar, so that should have freed up his time somewhat. ( I know he just didn't do Advancement, but that was a major data Entry project. Also with more & more courses being taken on-line those don't need to be data entered either.

Have you ever seen a moose laugh! This moose is cracking up CNYScouter.. Until your last comment, I thought you were highlighting your frustration.. You should be frustrated. How can you do your "volunteer" job, if you have to wait 3 or 4 months for them.. That puts you at Sept or Nov.. Then by Dec you have to follow up with each unit, organize what is missing and get it back to the "new Registrar" that is already 3 or 4 months behind, before he gets these updates.. Then what, he will put your changes in in a blink of the eye, before the rechartering in December?? Along with all the other districts in your council?? Oh is your Council's goose cooked.. "Hey everyone, Goose for holiday dinner at CNYScouters place!!" He's providing the goose. As for the forum hanging. It's been doing that to me for about 1 1/2 weeks now. I know Copy my message before posting in case it hangs or times out.. Also it is hard getting from the first page to a second page.

Oh yeah and CNYScouter.. When I read off the stats for my district.. Or Director of Field Services said, although National has been pushing the 80% goal, my numbers were not uncommon.. Hearing yours, I think I believe him more.. Ours is a bigger district. I had 13 pages trained (WHoo..Hoo..) and 64 pages untrained. Now things might look better if I can get the missing training courses logged into the system. I did not have anyone on both the trained & untrained list unless he was in multiple units and trained for one of them and untrained for the other. But I did have freaky things that made me think that the courses matched to the position aren't what is setting these people to trained. I had many with no course, or not all courses trained also. Now in some cases I can maybe see it.. We have a guy in his 80's who has been teaching and training BSA, (not basics, but things like EDGe & woodbadge).. He is marked as trained with no courses.. did he take them when there was no course numbers assigned? Did they just mark him trained? But one is an old SM in our troop, reregistered as committee.. He was trained for SM, not for Committee.. Still marked as trained, but missing Committee challenge. So seems like someone did not turn off the switch of trained when he changed positions. Now the ones that are Untrained, with no required courses needed.. Their switch may not have been turned on.

CNYScouter - Different things, Council IS responsible to keep track of records (in scoutnet).. the individual is also responsible for keeping their own records.. Just like the boyscouts and their blue cards. What do we tell the boys? Keep the blue cards, because if council does not keep good records, your blue card is your backup. Well council luckily does better with the youth then with the adults.. Now with the boys scout merit badge what happens if the council did not track it and the boy did not hold onto his blue card?.. Now that gets into individual policy.. At our council they use to have file cabinets on all the advancement forms sent in. If you could tell them a date you sent the form in they could pull it from the file.. My husband (Unit advancement coordinator, kept his own copy of advancement forms, and could get the date from troopmaster).. Some other units get to keep a part of their blue card stub (we couldn't it went to council.) etc.. So similarly with Adult training records, it gets murky as to who has what if the Council did not record it, and the Adult did not hang onto their card. It is based on what your policy was, and if your policy was followed or ignored. Or since you don't know, did you have a policy? Did Council have a policy.. If the info was not entered did it ever get to the Council registrar, for him to enter & file? If it went to the DE, who lost it, or if it never left the Trainers hands, and they did not keep backup copies.. Then you can't expect the Council to have the information on file, if indeed they ever got into the right hands to begin with. So, who were the Trainers for the past years? Did they pass their records on to the next guy? Did they keep the records or toss them when their days were done? Those who took the training and the District Training Chair (or their registrar).. Are your first level.. After that, it is up to who the Training Chair handed it off to.. Follow the trail, Everytime it left one persons hands to go to anothers, it could have been lost at that level. I am truely hoping my predecessor comes through with passing on the paperwork from his reign. I would like to have that history. Eagle92, thanks for the info. So does EVERYONE by 2012, not include committee / COR's ? OK for now concentrate on the direct-leaders with more emphisis on the top leaders.. Worry about the EVERYONE later..

RememberSchiff - this is exactly what I wanted to do.. EXACTLY.. Set up something so that I could email the units with what the council has on file for their review.. That is until I saw the dismal reports they allow me access to.. If you are trained for your required position, then all I get to see is the courses you took for your required position (minus YPT & fast start).. If you are not trained, all I get are what courses you need. Therefore I am left with email out to units only a list of those people not fully trained and what they need.. Sending out the other report is inaccurate because council has logged more, they just don't have reports for it. In order for us to do our job better, ScoutNet should be designed to offer solid information for those volunteers that are actually trying to do the job. The way it is set up, it makes it hard. I stated last night that I knew some training was not recorded in Council, and examples.. The person who did the job before me was adament he sent the information to Council to be logged.. He says he has the paperwork for the last few years and will send them to me, so that I can reissue them to council.. Problem is, how do you get verification that Council has indeed logged the information. There is no good checks and balance system in ScoutNet. It was designed as if the only people doing the work, are those that work at the Council. Not built for how BSA really operates.

Thanks Eagle92.. That helps me. I have just been going by what was stated to me by people who should be in the know. How can I get on the list to get this Training update? Sounds like something I need. I also see I will have a narrower scope of who to concentrate on for 2011. But, now you have me confused by your two statements for who needs training in 2012.. The November 2009 Training Update states "direct-contact" meaning Assistants. The mid-May one you said states "EVERYONE".. Maybe it's just me, but everyone, means everyone as in committee and COR's.. All JHankins notes from her Council Training Chair stated Direct-contact leader req. training by 2011.. Stange.. seems CNYScouter Council is pulling their hair out being a pilot council. But instead of backing off with projected timeline, almost sounds like National is pushing it up.. Your November update compared to your May update & JHankin's national notes, sounds like they are altering things so that 2011 is all direct contact leaders and 2012 will be when the committee & COR's are targeted also.

This was stated to me by my DE (now gone) before I took on this job. Acually he said "by the rechartering for 2011") I thought that to mean for this Dec rechartering for 2011.. Now that I have heard more either he meant "in 2011" or I misunderstood him. I have discussed my fear of getting my district (now at a dismal 16% fully trained) up to 100% trained, last night.. with the Director of Field Services (who is our acting DE until we get a new one) His statement was "Don't worry, when it becomes required, people may gripe, but they will get it done.." Not, "Where did you hear this?" JHankins notes from her Council Trainer, on the National meetingand the thought from NYScouter on what they will concentrate on this year & next.. Seem to make me think they may be backing off on WHO will be required to to be trained, but not the date.. It's Cryptic.. but it states.. Required Training (for leaders who have direct youth contact) Councils must complete by 12/31/2011. ( So seems they may be backing it off to only worring about the SM, ASM, CM, ACM, DL, ADL).. But I don't know about your units, in my unit, all really have direct youth contact.. Advancemnt coordinator, Outdoor Leader coordinator etc.. I am pretty certain in talking with my council Training chair about my dismal percentage rating to date, I also brought up the issue of how I was to get people to 100% goal by 2011.. She never corrected me. As far as our council is concerned this is a GO... I don't think people were happy with National springing on them required YPT or no reg at recharter time.. "Ta Da" with no fore warning.. Am I to wait for next June's National meeting when they again spring.. Required training or no reg at rechartering "TaDa"... with no fore warning? Even with all the specifics going on line.. By my count I have 83 SM's & ASM that are required to take outdoor leaders specifics.. Either I would have to train all 83 (angry) Leaders in one big group, or put to gether emergancy extra training sessions. I will talk to the Council training chair again.. Even if I have to soften it with "It is being proposed..." I think it is better to get the word out sooner rather then later.

So are you pulling your top leaders info queing up the Individual Print report for each person? Maybe you are seeing you are looking at only one person out of every unit. I thought all councils had to have all leaders fully trained in Required courses by Dec 2011 rechartering.. Not just ASM/SM or CM/ACM.. But also all den leaders, committee, COR's and other positions like pack trainer and what not.. My husband printed out an individual report on himself. Looking at it, you are right, any YPT we took as a course were never recorded.. But, the ones taken on-line have been recorded. Wow and if you look at those they put down as events (ie.. courses not on-line there is ALOT missing.. We went to Scouting U.. 3 or 4 times.. It only shows one time. Many other things we have taken multiple times, only shows once.. But the on-line shows the multiple times taken. So this may be more the registrar, not recording multiple times for taking a class. Lisabob - It would be preferable, but I am sure somehow the records can be sent to National in ScoutNet.. I have created a program that will pick apart the excel version of the District roster, and automatically reassemble what it pulled apart in multi columns & multi lines.. Now all I need do is get a new Excel roster to refresh my data. I plan to do the same for an excel version of the I am pulling out what I can and creating my own database, I plan to do the same with the poor "Trained" "untrained" Reports.. Not the greatest, but that's what we have to work with.. With that I was able to clean the data.. Found many Trained people with no courses, or not all required courses.. Some Untrained people but they had nothing listed for trainings they needed.. One person with two ID #'s.. Lot's of people who are listed as taking New Leaders essentals in one unit but in a second unit they are registered for they are listed as needing "This is Scouting".. a few other checks.. Then I was able to get percentages on different things.. With this I plan to send Council the updates of trainings they missed recording.. But, if the next report comes back to me with it not recorded, I will know it, and resend them my next set of what they need to record, with new entries and restating those they have yet to record, until they finally record them.

CNYScouter, Are you looking for ALL training people took, or just that which is required for their current job? Reason I ask is I am starting to clean our records now, in prep for next year.. I know from your other thread, you are a year earlier as the rest of us as your council was choosen to be a "guinea pig".. "Lucky you". about 4 to 5 years back, our whole council went through an "We lost the Adults records, please supply them again." I don't know how well that went, as I was not doing district training.. But, organizing the records now, from checking what is and isn't recorded from our council, I know that they again did not post the records they were suppose to. I don't want to again call out "We lost all your training records" A) we have not.. B) it makes the adult units loose confidence in you. I want to send out email per troop of a list of their registered volunteers and what we have on them.. So they can say what we are missing. But, currently the council says they can't get us a report of ALL the training our volunteers took. Only if Trained in what is Required for current position a Report of only the required for that position course that they took.. If not fully trained for their position they fall on another list stating only what they need to take (but not what they took.).. This leaves me with only sending out a report on "This is who needs what".. Tell us if you took it. I am frustrated I can't get to a list of all that they have taken, so that they can check it over.. Our council registrar say he can only pull each person an individual report.. Which would be impossible to ask him to do 300+ Excel pulls for each individual person. So if you are going over everything, I am just wondering how you are pull out of the software all the training for each person? I am hoping I can go back to at least the last 3 years of course trainings.. The on-line seem to record fine, if the person has put in their ID # when they took it. Supposable since the last time they figured out they are poor at recording, the courses were to go to 3 places. The Council, the district Training chair, and the Council Training chair. I have little hope for the diatrict Training chair.. I am hoping our Council Training chair has them, as she has been in the position for about 6 or 7 years ( the question is did our district follow protocol and get the training info to her.) This triplicate of paper records may just be in our Council.. And as said that was the protocol set up.. whether it was followed or not.. I fear not. Our council training Chair said something about resigning.. I am cringing at that.. I need help, just getting our district up and running as normal, without adding this mandate of 100% training coming soon. I am fearing yet another layer of help that will be vacant.

Thanks

Ok.. Totally boring, but need an Answer. Is Tiger cub Adult and un-registered Position just like ScoutParent..? While discussin Registered leaders being YPT trained everyone was concerned over the ScoutParent, and no it was not a registered position.. But no one mentioned the Tiger Cub Adult in the same scenerio.. roster does sort seperate them, not under the youth group like the ScoutParent, but in a seprate titled group of thier own right after the rest of the Adult leaders. My Database seems to be saying that we don't care about them being trained, as they don't seem to be acknowledge on my Trained & UnTrained Reports for the district. So this seems like a pretty self answering question.. But, I want someone to say.. "Yes, you are Right"..

I was cheated! We had no chalk sharpening in our course..! We did have something on the grease board. It was hysterical, because the trainer was talking about the time he mistakenly used permenant marker on it. Then he looked at the marker he had in his hand.. It also was permenant, and he had already used it.. (So is that deminstrating what NOT to do?) we did have some updated stuff too.. And some neat activities.. I'm going to EDGE on the 19th.. I fear the prep of the 10 hour training I'm going to do. I will be in a small class but most will be those on Woodbadge staff, and others who are currently trainers.. I'm not a trainer, which is why I'm the organizer part of the committee.. I am going to look pathetic next to my peers.. Planning to do care and accessories for Dutch Oven cooking.. It's what I am most comfortable with. But, that means lots or heavy props.

They don't but they emphasis "ALL Register Leaders" so many times it got drilled into your head.. COR's are registered leaders.. But, yeah as stated before, I worry about that group also..

It was just a few weeks back on this forum someone stated that EDGE was replacing the Patrol method, which made no sense at all given patrol is a way to form teams and EDGE is a way to train.. But, I could see if someone said EDGE was replacing TLT (except for the fact TLT is still fairly new from JLT, and changing things so rapidly makes for very cranky vounteers.) After all one is a teaching the boys how to lead & train others.. The other at least is about training.. Leading???? Anyway it make better sense then replacing the patrol method with EDGE. So what does TtT stand for?

Eagle92 - what stands for "TtT"?? Is that a typo for TLT (troop leader training?).. Or something else. Just curious since TLT replaced JLT many of our troops do neither now. I suggeste a course at next years ScoutingU in guiden the unit leaders on how to run a good TLT.. If that is now replaced by EDGE, no point in putting on a TLT guidence course. If "TtT" is something else, then I don't have to worry..

I wonder how our district is getting away with it? They are on the district roster this way.. That also explains why the roster is broken down by Adult Leaders, Youth, and then ScoutParents. I did not understand why these adults were split from the other Adults.. Boy does this (who can play what roles get convoluted!!!)

I think our council has it's head stuck in the sand over this issue. They have yet to broadcast the info out to the public, I have emailed two people at council and no response.