moosetracker

Don't be worried about being a pain in the side.. As COR you get to be a pain in the side, and guess what, they will pick up thier ears, listen and say "Yes, Ma'am".. AS COR if your husband can watch Junior for a few hours, go to the monthly Council meeting, few COR do, and the COR's have the power in the room, so you and the few COR's can voice needed changes to the Council. If you get with this group you might be able to meet the other COR's off to the side a few times, and discuss your fight for fair treatment for your son's disability and their total lack of consideration.. I would bet this group would be willing to back you in discussing change to their policy. After all if they don't have children with special dietary needs in their unit now, they may get them in the future. That might even open up some discussion from other COR's with any history of unfair treatment by the council of their scouts with maybe different types of special needs.. Some of these COR will have a long history with the Council, and an elephant's memory.. Forgot that your were expecting, "By the way, Congradulations".. So "yes" the Advisor position for you is not the best position. If your Venture Crew is co-ed, is there a female adult leader that will have the desire to go on outings? You always need two deep leadership, but if co-ed one needs to be female or the girls can't go on the outings. Actually I believe a Venture Crew probably can do better if with a CO not directly tied to a troop. Troops can feel threatened by Venture Crews. So if you distance yourself, but make yourself known to the troops in the area about who you are, what your group is about, how you can be reached etc. Offer the opportunity that if a boy has decided to quit the Troop, the Scoutmaster can suggest your group to the leaving boys.. Most Scoutmasters won't mind promoting your group to scouts they have lost, in a hopes to keep the boy in Scouting.. They do mind and or fear that their active scouts will be lured or recruited into your group.. The distance of not sharing a CO, gives them the space they need to relax.. The way you introduce yourselfs to neighboring troops will also go a long way in if you forge a working relationship with them. They can be your best feeders for new crew members, if done right.

This group is fine as a CO.. As long as the crew isn't looking for a CO that will give them a building or offer and type of funding.. They would be the ones with the demands, not the Council.. What you should be looking for in a CO is at least someone in the group being an ACTIVE COR.. Especially with the new training demands that they keep their Youth Protection up-to-date renewing every two years, and soon the demand that they need to take the COR course (I believe it is offered on-line for convience.).. I do not think you can be COR and Advisor, You could double up positions and be COR and committee chair but not advisor.. So if the crew needs you as an Advisor I would suggest you look at your friend if she is agreeable to do it and be active.. Warning, the COR is the high boss, so make sure yourself, husband and she are able to work well together, and if she does need to pull the high boss card on you for something, you can accept that. You will also need at least a Committee Chair and 2 other members in the committee so that you have a total of 3 in the Committee.. That is your base adult leadership 5-6 members. COR, 2 Advisors (co-ed if co-ed program), Committee Chair, and 2 committee members. (the COR & CC can double up if only can get 5).. All need Youth protection NOW.. Advisors will need to take their position required training by recharter time of 2011.. Everyone will need their position required training by 2012.. But, I'd advise not to wait, the sooner you train the better quality program you can provide. Also you can try to pull away from the kaos of all the leaders who have been procrastinating on getting trained and now are forced to. Maybe a less crowded class, and people not grumpy about having to through training, and hopefully your training records have a better chance of being recorded accurately if you are not doing it during the time period when the Council registrar is pulling their hair out over trying to keep pace with the paperwork of thousands being trained during a short span of time. Most training is on-line, Except for the Advisors specific training.

The door was already opened for possible headlines like "Advisor knocks up 14 y/o scouter during event !" with the venturing program.. Same with Explorer program when that was in our program (though I dont know the title of their leaders are.) So this possibility shouldnt cause National much hesitation. No, I think it is more the fact of fears of LDS reaction, and not wanting to impede on the Girl Scouts. But, if JHankins info about LDS having rumors of leaving Boy Scouts is true, I think we will see it happen. If her estimated time of 5 years is right. Then we all might live to see the day.. By the way was that short comment of : NO FREAKIN WAY .you would lose several sponsor including the LDS church. The official LDS opinion on the matter??? So LDS church, they may loose.. Still I think it unfair of them to force their beliefs on the entire group.. Bend to them like they already do giving them Varsity, and other things so they can run their program their way.. But, if they get what they want, they should demand that everyone else follow their beliefs. Then if the rumor is right & they are leaving anyway.. They would then have no say over the program.. The comment about loosing Sponsers though . I have been told by members in our Council that the reason the Boy Scouts keep hoping for Venturing to succeed is that the co-ed programs get them more sponsers and funds for the program.. (Again other people might state Venturing is already succeeding, not here we are still just hoping) So for every sponser they lose over going co-ed, they will get 3 others because they went co-ed group.. More Sponsers still if they could relax their policy on homosexuals.. but that is a different topic, and probably harder for them to back down from once they put up their own NO FREAKIN WAY cries of protest.. That would entail them to eat humble pie..

ditto here just logistic.. My husband works far from the Scout store, so it would be a Saturday trip 1 1/2 round trip for him. Another person works less then a mile from the Scout store. He fills out the paper work but the purchase goes to someone in the troop who can do it with little effort.

For Venturing to be the group to earn you Eagle rank in, some of it's attitude over rank advancement would need to change.. Understanding that BSA may push the rank advancement too much Venturing (at least around here) doesn't push it at all. My husband after being on the EBOR for about 5 years is discussing the possibility of maybe it's first Venturing crew member going for the rank of Eagle. The Venturing awards might not even bother existing, no one has earned those in forever. As stated before our Venturing crews flounder if not tied to the troop. Not being in Venturing but just an outsiders observance is the "decide whatever you want, has them decide for all fun and only fun, and they don't grow and advance. After awhile parting (whether it be a kayaking theme group, or a rock climbing theme group or a whatever we want to do group, with no purpose to strive toward it still winds up as fun with out a purpose.. Partying.) with no real goals or objectives it slowly gets old and they drift apart. The rise an fall of a Venturing program in the average 3 to 5 year life cycle (at least in our area. I know others areas have successful groups, but I would like to know if they get their Venturing groups to work toward goals and advancements somewhere along the way.) Explorers also seemed to have a life cycle of a group. I was talking to an Explorer at our program kick-off this spring about it. Though they had a set skill to work for, Firefighting or police or rescue work (etc.) it was a group of kids with one specific purpose or goals as they grew out of the program, they failed to get new recruites to their speciallized interest, so the program died as they left it.. another 3 to 5 year average life cycle program. Boy Scouts may be boy lead, but there is an established set line of skills, advancement to work towards, and they stress trying alot of new things, not just doing one thing until your board of it or grow out of it without new recruits comeing in after you. Yes, easier for adults to hijack and take over but also easy enought to run the program the right way, and the troops running it the right way will be your strongest.. It is just a program that over time has proven it's success.. Venturing for me, it still has bugs in it's formula it has to work out before I see it as a successful formula. (again, all from the point of veiw of how the program is working in my area. I realize other areas feel Venturing is highly successful.) So I would not vote for the elimination of Boy Scouts for Venturing at the older age.. Also as stated before Boy Scouts depend on their older scouts to teach their younger scouts the skills. Without the older scouts the skills will be taught by the Adults.. You might as well just extend the cub scout program then.

The only thing I see them objecting to is co-ed summer camps and camporees. I don't know about LDS in other areas, but I know ours all take summer camp on the same week and I think ours was the only troop on the same week as them, one year & one year only.. I don't remember what else they complained about, but I know our troop was upset that Mondays swimming meritbadge session was cancelled and not rescheduled for another time so the LDS troop could do swim test when they came in on Monday.. It was not a complaint about the LDS religious traditions, but more that the camp did not find a solution by giving a 2nd session some other day during free time. There were other things that I can't remember that definately stated our troop was a non-entity while catering to LDS.. So in our area they can block out an entire week for themselves and not share with the girls. Not sure at a camporee if LDS even goes.. Or would they camp over since they can't travel on Sunday?? Since BSA depends on LDS, if it is true that they may split, then serious consideration should be made to go co-ed. Somehow they need to balance the loss on one large group with the gain of another. Why are LDS pulling out? What are they unhappy with?

I would be fine with a code program through cubs, boy scout & venturing. If you leave boy scouts out of the co-ed move you will weaken the strength of that program to compete with venturing. If you have the kids in a co-ed program then give them an option of staying co-ed with junior ventureing and venturing or the boys could go to boy scouts, the group that has been together since first grade will choose to stay as a group and move to Ventures. The only thing that boy scouts would need is a name change. Their program would work fine for either gender. So I know the UK has a co-ed program, but I dont know if they killed off the girl scouts in that country.. If we do kill off the girl scouts can we take the cookie fundraiser as the spoils of war?

Well my husband is close.. He does: 1) Troopmaster also, but thinks of this as job #2.. But does like control over making sure advancements are recorded right. (Don't think he does recharter though) 2) The organizing of the paperwork to get the awards for COH.. But someone else gets them. 3) Advises committee, SM and boys on boys advancements at Committee meetings, with Reports and on Poster boards in room. 4) Organizes the BOR. 5) Keeps the MBC list and helps a boy choose a good counsilor (not his parent, not ones on the list he would prefer they don't use) 6) Keeps the blue cards. Boy goes to him first, then the SM. (also keeps everything else for troop he's a walking file cabinent.) 7) Coordinates the "opportunities" for scout to first class advancement.. Like on an outing he may organize an orienteering course, some boys may do the course while other do capture the flag.. Or he may assign or oversee the older boys tasks at what they need to prepare to teach the younger boys during the 15 minute pre-troop warmup time.. 8) pulls the boys books to record what has been signed off in them. 9) Works with the person in charge of Summer camp to make sure the boys take appropriate age/ rank / ability merit badges.. 10) With some of the boys help them with the presentation of their initail Eagle project presentation in order to be accepted by the EBOR as their project. First it has to be in front of the troop committee before they present it to the District Eagle Board.. Usually in the form of a dry run dress rehearsal, before the committee dress rehersal, before the EBOR presentation. If the boy can pass muster at our committee drilling and question asking, the EBOR usually is a breeze. 11) Helps those who ask for it with their presentations and/or prep for their final meeting with the EBOR after everything including the project is complete.. There are probably other things I have left out.

Another thing that comes to mind with the fridge situation is that the fridge is "Full" due to buying the food for the entire week.. That means by mid-week it is half empty and by end of week very empty.. So a camp cooler to keep stuff for a day or two is good. By the time the ice needs to be restocked, it should not have to be because there should be room in the fridge for two boys for the rest of the week because 300 other people have eatten at least 1/3 of their meals for the week from it.

OTN - I like your positive attitude. I truely believe if you approach your volunteers with a positive attitude of "This is a good thing for our unit, this will make us better & stronger" your volunteers will pick up the enthusiasm.. If you approach them with an attutude of "This stinks and is a waste of your time and mine" your volunteers will also pick up your attitude. evmori - It should be encouraged.. But, they are probably some of your weaker links in the unit so you just don't have to fear loosing them due to them not doing YPT.. But if a unit committee voted to make it their standard policy, all the power to them..

evmori - if you are asking about MBC and completing on-line YPT. I don't think anyone is disputing if they should or shouldn't. They definatly should. The question is how are council going to check they take it now they are required to, and make sure that they have not lapsed in their 2 year renewal of it. Unlike other members who yearly pay a fee at recharter time to be a member, there is no yearly checkpoint for them unless National or each council come up with one. So since no hints with National coming up with a game plane, what are the ideas councils are coming up with to do so?

Well the filling out of the Merit Badge app yearly makes better sense then the full Adult Registration and Merit Badge app yearly. Especially if next to a MB they can state "renewing" rather listing all the reasons they are qualified again.. Besides that adult Registration being a pain in the butt with it's detailed info I see this as an unneccessary expense to the council to do background checks on all the MBC's yearly when the Adult leaders only need background checks when they switch positions or units. Our old Advancement Chair lost and dropped MBC's so much it was frustrating. But, when I complained once, he pointed out that statement.. "As a merit badge counselor, I agree to - Renew my registration annually if I plan to continue as a merit badge counselor".. You all know me and my prickly disposition. I stated "renewing" didn't mean reapplying from scratch every single year. That we "renew" yearly with the recharter for our unit, that did not mean we had to do all the paperwork to reapply because the Council didn't loose our apps yearly... He hung up the phone in my ear, very loudly. Husband & I then scanned the prefilled out Adult Registration App and MBC form.. into our computer & spit it out with just us needing to sign & date.. But the expense of the council to recheck us yearly when the money could go to better things still got to me.

When it comes to campgrounds next year, look outside your council. We have 2 councils from other states with camps in our state, and some camps out of state where still only a 1 1/2 to 3 hour drive (If your in the middle of Texas maybe not, but they still should have neighboring councils within the state.) Depending on the size of your troop, you might just put them in shock when you go out of council for camp. I know we did our council, they bent over backwards trying to get us to change our minds. Thing was it was the boys decision to try something different. We were not going to make an adult decision against it. But, it shocked us at the fear they had that we were going to do such a thing, and that other troops might follow suit. Your council may be more accomidating in future years if you do that. If you are a troop of 5 or 6 boys maybe not. But if a troop of 25 or more, they will get the message. Of course I am basing this on my councils reaction. But, our council has very nice camps and many outside of council troops come to them. We were very shocked by their reaction. For two months we got phone calls from everyone at council.. Begging, pleading, promising all sort of "extras", how could they change the program for us.. In the end they even resorted to threatening things like loss of our annual designated campsite and other things.

I have never heard of a camp that won't let you have a camp stove.. What do people do who use their camp on the off season when the kitchen isn't open? I am pretty sure I went a full week with meat packed from home with the items I knew would not be cooked until later in the week frozen solid before I left. But, I do think I did have to swing to a store for more ice and maybe milk or other items. No way to take a trip once at camp? Are all cars forced off the property or do they close the gate so you can't leave? Either that or have the perisible items early in the week, and the canned chili at the end of the week. Does the camp have open fire pits? Not the best way to cook all week, and you need to have wood in supply, but packing a cooking grate, would give you some source of heat. Next year your troop may want to look for neighboring council camps that will at least allow you to bring in a camp stove.. Geeeze, with that those types of rules, the council should only post "unaccomidating to any nutritial needs.. Stay home!" I would not have even asked about the camp stove. It would have never occured to me that any camp would dis-allow it.

You would like one of our camps (at least food wise).. We have 2 that neighbor each other. One is the typical camp. One does not have a dining hall. Each site has equipment to cook at. Food is dropped off daily and the boys prepare their own meals.. From what I am told it is all fresh and wholesome. Like everyone else said. Bring coolers and campstove and cook your own food at the site. A scout should be able to prepare meals without an RV. You may need to go out a few times over the week for ice for the coolers and more supplies, but your camping.. So enjoy the whole equation of what camping is all about. Does your troop have any Dutch ovens.. I alway enjoy Dutch oven cooking while camping. After a few meals at the cafeteria, the other scouts will be in envy of your meals. Most camp cafe's are know to be not the greatest food..

That is a good question. How are your councils handling the YPT for MBC?? Like this is my husbands problem as District Advancement Chair. He knows new MBC's need the YPT with their registrations. He needs to call all MBC's to fix a very outdated list, but with everyone else, he is just telling them about the YPT. Besides trashing all MBC's unless you do this every two years, this will only work once, how will your Council deal with making sure MBC's YPT are up-to-date? With no report telling you the registered districts volunteers status with the YPT and with MBC's not having to re-register with the yearly charters, what are the ideas of how they will monitor this? I hate to see my husband go through the summer with him and a few other volunteers calling and updating a list to see the council trash all the MBC before this December..

Well tickets are either to help improve yourself for your unit, or to help your unit improve.. As long as he is not going out to improve everyone else around him, I see no problem with this ticket item. Even if it doesn't lead to skills 2nd to none, feedback will lead to self improvement one way or another by just knowing what you should pay more attention to. Unless you are someone who just don't give a darn.. But, if that were the case, I wouldn't think you would go to Woodbadge in the first place.

Your area would need some wide open planes, otherwise I can see a helocopter, but a Cessna would need a place to land, and/or someone to pick you up at whatever field you could find to land at. If you are a retired pilot makes sense, you need to log a certain amount of flight time to keep you license up to date. PS. The cactus image, paints a wonderful image of what your job is like.. What about all us lovely volunteers, don't we make the whole job a bed of roses.. No.. I get equated to being a cactus thorn!!! I get the picture.

Sorry pbiner.. Some of us have been on the boards too long, we grumble and bicker amongst ourselves.. It is unfriendly and not scoutlike to chew off the head of newbies like yourself. I am unsure of what a 360 is? If it is to organize the boys, well you will get grumbling.. The boys are to be able to make mistakes and learn from them.. Volunteers also are a hard lot to line up.. After all they are volunteers, they join for the fun and adventure much like the boys. But, there is disorganization that needs to be organized.. Like take the mess I just took on at District for Training.. Adult Training records should not get lost period.. Take at District Level our Merit Badge Counseling list.. We have people still list for MBC that have passed away 5 years back. Other who sign up, and get lost and never put on the list.. There are things needing organization.. There are things that just can't be organized.. Grumpy cantankourous scouters are one of them... So if Narraticong didn't scare you off, can you explain more of what you are trying to accomplish?

I AM SHOCKED JH!! 50 people, out of 10,000??? Was that before the YPT mandate? Even so, that is unbelievable.. I did think the on-line got more hits then the course, you proved me wrong. I would have been slightly surprise if our registrar told me only 50 for my district. I know my family and I go in and take things just for the hey of it.. I took Scouting parents & Unit Commissioner just to see what they were. Others in my family took nutrition and other odd things.. Just taking things for curiosity sake.

MBC's are registered.. They have to fill out the registration info, and go through the check for any violations.. What MBC's don't do is have to pay to register.. They are registered as at district level if they are not associated in any other way to a unit. But, you are right that MBC's do have to have YPT.. Therefore the statement that anyone who has to pay for registration is incorrect.. It is really anyone who is registered.. Paying could be a confusing message anyway, since some units pay for their volunteers and they don't know they are paying.. But Scout Parents & tiger Parents do not fill out an application or pay for registration. All they do is check off something on their scouts application. They are not required to take YPT.

UCEagle - Sorry for the confusion.. But, maybe that WAS what JH was refering to. I knew the person who took the course got a paper certificate. But it was my understanding that the on-line courses just electronically informed the Council of the course.. (Would it be too much to expect that it automatically updated their program records???).. So I was asking if the "Registrar" recieved any paperwork with the new on-line training. "from the on-line training service".. JH might though have been refering to volunteers sending in ALL their certificates to the registrar, which since the on-line system informs the council, would be unneccessary, and a nightmare.. I just wasn't looking at it that way..

Can any of you describe what your troop Advancement Coordinator does? While our SM signs off the MB bluecard, our AC does most the other things you guys describe as the SM's duty.. That the SM doesn't have time for because he is busy doing other SM things. Just asking because I don't see anyone else even give the AC a mention. My husband worked as a Swimming MC with a scout who was just "never going to get it". He had ADHD and just couldn't focus and wanted to play in the water.. But he is the AC of the troop also, and the kid could pass the swimming pre-test at summer camp. Without the swimming MB he could not go on troop water activities like canoeing or white water.. So my husband put in the time with him, but drew the line at ever passing him, even though pushed by the mother to turn a blind eye and pass him.. He was not going to have the responsibility of having the kid get hurt at the next troop aquatic event, knowing he passed him when he did not have the skills. That though is an exception. With citizenship, the scouts are guided to start with community and move up to world.. He will sit down with them and discuss MB's they plan to take and if they are the right fit, or if they are old enough.. Summer camps give guidelines as to what is appropriate for new scouts or what the age or rank requirement is to take the more advanced MB, or even what MB you should have before taking a certain MB. The AC makes sure to follow those guidelines. The SM only needs sign the bluecard knowing if the AC has given the boy the bluecard to take to him, then the boy is ready to take the MB.

Do they get any paperwork if taken on-line? Our council also wants you to copy and attach the YPT card to every registration you do. Doesn't matter if your new, or have an id and 3 other positions.. Easier for them that way then having to look you up in the system. I would suspect though that will make for MORE paper to file. Not sure what they will be requesting during recharter time. It would be a pain in the behind for units to ask all their registered adults to produce copies of YPT at recharter time. Kinda kills the ease of now rechartering on-line. We will be back to long lines lots of confusion (and anger) on recharter day. I like your idea JH.. I might try it here, my trainers want me to discourage the on-line, but I see standing in the way of District as just a way of being rolled over by progress, rather then moving with it. At least suggesting this will make them happy, but I have got to find ways for them to embrace the idea of doing supplemental training. I also need to beef up the training staff (which they don't want me to do as they see their jobs already shrinking.).. But, I am sweating having enough people to staff our fall courses as everyone seems too busy and it is a short list. I also think for supplemental training you would burn a small staff out, sending them from troop to troop. I though do not want to be someone who walks in and upsets their idea world and have them not willing to work with me. As for our course training I am lucky to find that our council required our Registrar to keep 3 years back of what our district gave him for course training. Our council had a 3 way system for that paperwork to make sure it was not permenantly lost as it was about 5 years back. Problem was it was not followed by our district. Did not have Training Chair for district for about 3 years DCC did it while absent. Copy to Council Training Chair never sent, DCC did not know. DCC lost copy he was to keep. Registrar though has 3 years back. But since it is needed to find out what he is missing, this is working backwards. What he has will determine what he has missing. Then it's a matter of tracking down that info.. I am told I will have info from on-line registration of courses.. But no-shows and walk-ins will still make that inaccurate. Anyway, without the registrars paperwork, we would be totally in the dark. still will be for the two years between the other cleanup and what paperwork the registrar has.

I could not agree with you more BP.. YPT, Hazardous Weather, fast start, even "Troop Committee Challenge" (cause that wasn't very good to begin with course or on-line), a few other quick ones Yes.. Your main course.. No.. When they started hinting at the specifics on-line, we were told it would not affect our normal specific training at all (made it sound like a fast start to specifics, which to get you up & running until a class was offered made sense..).. Then came the news that it would be the same credit to take on-line or class.. Then came National putting out the YPT mandate with a Q&A stating they think you are better trained with on-line then in a course and a list of why they prefer on-line over course lead.. Which may have been in a memo specific for YPT, but their reasoning was not. Now I am learning that things like course lead Committee Challenge and New Leaders Essential, have been killed to the point if you change position they will not follow you, you have to retake the on-line.. National is forcing us to accept their way.. Right or Wrong. Unless specifics is a 3 or 4 hour on-line course rather then a cutsie 30 minute romp, the volunteers will loose alot.. Even more then the ability to ask questions for your specific issues, or to comprehend a point. Having just taken over training for our district, and knowing our past history, and others issues I do have to admit, they never did orchestrate a good way for us to make sure those who took our courses, got into the system with the credit they deserve.. There were too many hands in the passing of the info from A to B to C to D.. and predecessors either did not keep copies, or did not pass the copies onto their successors.. That is one thing the web courses do have over personal course. Consistant and accurate logging of courses taken.. But, how much was volunteers (being untrained, and the revolving door) and how much was poor quality software.. Both for sure..