moosetracker

OK.. make fun of my little cow Hampshah.. But this weekend our little Daniel Webster Council is hosting the Blue Angels.. Heres a video.. Eat your hearts out!! I'm going today, my husband & son camped overnight.. Unfortunately I don't think they were prepared for the crowds. I think they said 70,000 yesterday 80,000 expected today. My husband texted and told me to stay away as I have a phobia of crowds if they are packed in like sardines, so although we have tickets those I am going with decided to park on a highway that is outside the base but has good views. See we can have real attractions that pull in real crowds.

OwntheNight - congradulations for having the adult leaders of your troop so well trained that you have the problem of too many beadings! Even if all your leaders don't take Woodbadge, it means your unit has set the standard that training is important, so I am sure most if not all get their basic training completed.

Oh boy, you just figured out our next adventure! So strange, we spent a week at Bear Brook and did not stumble onto this. My son did like their walking archery range though. You take a walk in the woods with your bow & arrow, and when you run into a wooden target of some sort of animal, you shoot arrows at it, then pick up your arrows and move on. I know, since they are animal replicas, could not be a scout outing, but it entertained my son while we were camping. I noticed that the founder of the museum died in 1990 & his museum opened in 1993.. Was he the founder, or did the children just not know what to do with all the camping gear he left them in his will?

Ooops I've been reading too much cub Scout info.. Just reread mine.. Did not mean Bobcats, I meant Bobwhites.

I wasn't big into the beading, so I waited until someone else in my patrol of Bobcats was getting theirs at their roundtable, and hooked up with them and got mine at the roundtable with her. Didn't know many as it wasn't my district, but that was fine. With us, we have a woodbadge dinner in March when it is the 1 1/2 year end for the woodbadge which is always held in October. Many, Many woodbadgers just get beaded at this, easy simple quick, you are one in 20 - 30 others being beaded, and everyone is there for woodbadge anyway.

We had that problem of about an equal amount of adults to youth going on events. The SM weeded out the party goers from those who really wanted to contribute to the troop by asking the troop to enforce a rule that any adults going on events would be truely trained with not the committee required training, but the required training for SM/ASM.. He spent more time babysitting the adults then being a SM. Those who trained up were serious about going on events, and when they went they knew how to guide scouts when they needed to step in for saftey reasons, and allow the SPL or PL to step in when it was them who should be. It worked out well. Now we are down to our troop running the risk of not having the 2 deep leadership and events being cancelled. Those rules are no longer followed. If the SM is a big kid who see the outings as a party, and doesn't know when to let the scouts run their own program. I doubt this type of process will be something your troop will adopt.

If your son is really set about not moving, and he can be independent enough not to get roped into the meritbadge mill. Then float for a while in hopes this guy finishes up and his son can get all the mb's and Eagle by 13 and then leaves the troop, so the troop can hopefully settle back down. But I believe there is a point in time, where the parent can tell the son that it is time to move, if the troop is totally against the parents basic belief system, or you think the troop is not training self-suffiency of the boys but are in the current society trend to make the boys dependent on the adults and totally self-centered.. You have a parent son doing this, and committee/SM is allowing it, but not sure if the whole troop is promoting this to all the boys "yet". If your son is at all wavering with moving to a new troop, then give him the option to visit a few of the neighboring troops, no strings attached. There is always a wish to stick with what you know good or bad, and a fear of the unknown. So work on making the unknown known. Your son may be more eager to move if he see something he becomes excited about moving to. A program he likes either in the style of the troop meetings or future events planned, kids he knows from his school who he didn't know were in this other troop, the way he sees how the PLC really get the ability to run their own troop. Now your son can make a decision knowing what he may be leaving, and what he may be leaving it for, rather then choosing between the known and the unknown.

My son took on this position, He was the first in our troop in ages too. I believe it was the one position he really loved. He did start talking to the alumni of the troop. Got some of that done but ran into one that had been SM for 20 or 30 years like 10 years back. He gave him his old scrapebooks which had items in it even before his days as a sm. In fact someone back in the 1940's had done a something for one year with a picture of each event and something about the event. The 1940 scrapebook was in better shape then the SM's years in, as he put his in those self-sticking photo albums that the glue breaks down over time, deteriorating the pictures with them. So son spent hours at a cardtable in our livingroom. Carefully trying to get the photos out without having the picture peel off stuck to the plastic front cover. Then put them into a new scrapebook that he reseached for good preservation quality. Then he copied each page. The troop has the copied scrapebook. The original scrapebook was given to the CO to keep safe. He also took alot of pictures at each event and at COH would do I don't want to just call it slide presentation, as it was with music and the photos had some movement to zoom in on something funny taking place then move out to show the whole photo. His first COH, he had only been in the position for a few weeks, so he got up and talked about the events they recently went on and some of the funny things that happen. Since then, other scouts have not been able to do the slide show, but they were told they did not need to follow. Pictures on a Posterboard, or on a web site. or the verbal account at the COH. One scout after our son also got into the Troop Historian position and did alot of interviews with alumni, since our son got very busy with what the one SM had provided, he never completed finding alumni. In fact this scout continued looking for an meeting alumni well after his POR was completed.

Cute, that's something to get for my son & husband. If I just get it for my son he will split with his ornaments when he leaves the nest.

Your right bacchus, people do read into posts & pull out Helicopter parent when sometimes I don't see it. Also sometimes they are asking the right approach on how to handle a situation Making sure this is a situation to be involved in or not.. Meaning they themselves fear getting too involved and just need a sounding board on when to step in and when not to.. Whipping out the HP alert, and broadcasting it to everyone, is not always the most beneficial way to handle the posters question. Especially newbie posters.. It might be better to explain why they should & should not get involved, and leave off on the labeling. At least until you have a sense of if they really came for advice or if they came to get confirmation they should hover and get defensive get defensive & arguementative if you tell them they should back off. Also sometimes I don't understand some peoples take on things, for example there was an issue with a Scout who made all the hurdles to Eagle but SM would not give it to him and would not sit down to explain why, nor would committee but backed the SM. Advice was for parent to give advice but not get involved and the scout was to fight alone, all the way thru to the appeal at National. Then comes a Life scout who gets an email from SM saying he only partially earned his POR. Everyone said the parent should get involved, and it was too big an issue for the scout to take care of, or even be at the meeting with parent & SM..

Wow.. Guess I missed an important message from Jim. I must have crossed threads with Jim at one point. When I came back the whole subject had turned, and I was perplexed at why we were talking about the turnover of SM's, and New SM's... Good to hear Jim.. Seems you had a COR on your side, which makes all the difference. So hopefully you have time for the position if chosen, if not chosen or don't have the time. I would hope that if that is the direction they want to go in, the choose an SM that carries the same viewpoint & will work with you to achieve it.

On-line course I have not waited at all.. It's an immediate Congradulations and I get to print out my certificate ASAP. I did just send out info to units in my district about what courses the council knows about. I suspect many people will go into shock to see missing courses, but I suspect the majority will be because they never put their membership ID in, or they mistyped it.

No, not everyone will have a well formed sense of purpose. But, if they do, then looking to change it is disrespectful.. Like fighting for women leaders in an LDS Troop would be disrespectful, but choosing not to belong to that type of unit is your right. So if it is a well formed mission statement, Jim shouldn't mess with it. He should just find a troop that has the correct formula. If it is just some are comfortable with the flow, while others (not just one, but if what Jim states is true, there are other boys in the troop) that want change, then it is not disrespectful to try for change, as long as it is done correctly (meaning without going behind the SM back). Those who may resist the change, simply because it is change.. may soon adjust to the change and get their comfort level back. If the PLC are approached and wish for the change, why would it be wrong for Jim to work with them? Mind you I still think it is a very hard uphill battle to do so without the full backing of the SM. Reason why my council (and I know others, but don't know if all) have gone to Unit of Honor patch. Which is in our district a whole shoulder patch which is similar, but different then the normal council patch and has the year earned on it. Those who get this quality patch get other awards too, like the council pays for the next year for all rank advancement patches for the troop. Anyway this Unit of Honor was because the Quality Unit was so easy to obtain. This Quality patch is harder to get and what a quality unit is, is more spelled out. Our troop won it 3 years in a row, we are now in a cycle where the adult leadership is not there to support a great program, so we haven't won it for 2 years. It averaged about 10 Units in total a year obtained this quality in our district. I don't know if anyone truely follows BSA training to the "T" but it definately defines what a quality unit should be striving for, and it is not as structured as cub scouts, but way, way more structured then Venturing. And Yes if the unit has a defined purpose such as a church ministry, then they may have quality in what their purpose is, just as a YMCA program can have quality, or the football team could have quality.. And the children who come out of the program could have quality of charater or whatever. But they still are not achieving what BSA defines as a quality BSA program. It will be "interesting" to see those leaders resistant to running a BSA program the way it is meant to be run being forced to go through manditory training in the next few years. If they are set with a alternate "mission", then I guess they will not enjoy it or be converted.

So now you went and confused me again Beavah.. Are these groups that have conciously defined themselves as using the BSA program to run a youth outreach program, or are thes groups that are running a social outreach program and thinking they are running a QUALITY BSA program? If they have conciously chosen to run it as a youth outreach program, they should be able to articulate that to anyone who joins and then is dismayed over the fact that it is not being run the way the expect it to be. As for anything that signs up will be accepted as a BSA program. That is true, BSA will take anything with a pulse that signs on the dotted line. As for all units in the BSA program are defined as quality units? Sorry, no.. The BSA program is well defined and structured. The definition of a quality unit is well defined.. It's defined in the Quality unit patch. It's defined in the unit of Honor patch. It's defined in the Scouts specific Training. It's defined in the outdoor Leader Skills training. It's defined by the fact that National is making Training manditory so that Leaders must know what a quality unit is defined as. When the BSA training changes the training of how a troop is run as going through the structure of the pregame, opening, skills, Patrol meetings, Interpatrol activity, closing and PLC reflection time. To you can do this or hold a 1 1/2 hour dodgeball game.. You choose, both are quality meetings.. Then I will agree they are holding a quality meeting. If we start doing two types of outdoor trainings one teaching the camping & first aid, and another teaching dodgeball & basket ball.. Then I will agree they are holding a quality meeting. But, if you tell me they know what the BSA program is, and they choose not to follow it, just use the name and follow their own youth outreach program. Then that's ok too.. But, don't tell me it's a quality BSA program, because they are a BSA troop and anything goes... Now as for Crews.. They by definition is that anything goes. So, I have no issue with them forming a group to do whatever.. They may even be considered a quality unit, but how you can judge apples & oranges and decide quality unit except for maybe enrollment and retention I do not know.

I'll take your word for it Beavah that some troops are like that. Would be nice if leaders of these type of troops came out and said that when people join and are not happy with the lack of a boyscout program they are expecting in the boyscout program they run. Just a nice, "well we don't run a BSA program, we just use their name to offer our kids a social program" would be benifical to all. Why have you spin you heels in aggitation? I can see maybe them wanting to use the BSA camps, or insurance. But, why give out ranks? Here is a prime example of when maybe Varsity scouts should not have the stigmatism of being for only LDS, they should be promoted for LDS and any social outreach group programs. This troop as described seems they would make a great Varsity group, but as far as Boy Scout troop is concerned.... Nope I just can't call it good. So maybe that is the first step Jim. Have a talk with the SM or COR and find out if their direction is to be a social outreach program, and they really don't care to follow the BSA program. If so, the answer would be to walk. And any of the boys who you mentioned who are not happy they are not getting to learn outdoor type skills, should know what type of program they are in and decide for themselves if they want to have a social program or a BSA program. If BSA they too should walk. Now the kids left are happy the Leaders left are happy, and the kids you want to help have been helped to find a troop with the BSA program they are looking for. You are happy and your son is happy. If though, you talk to the SM and/or COR and they truely want a BSA program, or don't know what they want, they are just going through the motions with no direction.. Then you can try the root of the PLC and help the boys make the changes they want to see in the program. With the SM knowledge. Beavah, I was not thinking badly of the leaders of this unit. I don't think their program is good, if they are calling it a BSA troop, some other club then OK. But my statement of they will be threatened by Jim, was not because they are a--holes, or anything like that. It is just that it is normal human reaction to feel threatened when someone with alot more experience and knowledge then you comes in demanding you make changes and pushing you to do so, by either pushing you or pushing others (the committee) to get you to change. If you are the one who is suppose to be the leader, and you feel you are no longer in charge of the situation you resent the one who is putting you into an insecure position. Jim couldn't push if Jim didn't have a firm knowledge of how the program should run. His knowledge and his desire to put it into action will make them feel threatened.

Jim.. I missed this comment by you entirely. " Once again I am looking for advice in approaching the leaders and parents in the committee meeting. I already have talked with the scouts on numerous occasions, they want the change, they are willing to work at it. The scouts themselves have told me the reason they don't go to the camporees is that they do so poorly, and who wants to go to a competition that you aren't prepared for, over and over again. I just want to come away from the meeting Thursday, with at the very least tacit approval so I am not banging my head against the wall. " That changes things. Because you also mentioned the SM told you to go to the PLC.. You have the SM blessing to go to the PLC. And if this statement is correct the PLC is not a bunch of boys into dodgeball, but wanting a good program. Therefore Do just that. GO TO THE PLC!!! The SM can't get upset if you win your battle there, because you have not done so underhandedly, HE gave you his blessings. This is your one and only window for success that I see.

Here is what I see causes change. 1) Mass exodous of the youth, either out of scouting or to another unit. 2) Scouts over the age of 14 or 15 are dropping like flys and they are always a young troop. ie.. Reasons that the current leadership start to ask themselves "What are we doing wrong?" or get honest answers from scouts leaving as to why they are leaving.. They then choose for themselves to change. 3) A new Scoutmaster or COR one with the ideas to turn the Troop into a real Boy Scout troop. That is about all that I can think of that will turn a bad troop with no interest in changing around. For struggling troops I would add, an new large influx of crossover parents who become involved in the leadership of the unit. Because a struggling troop usually is one that wants to be good, but just doesn't have enough involved adults to make it happen. To make a bad troop turn with this, the influx of new parents would have to outnumber the current leadership, and signon to the committee and vote for change. Still what the committee votes on can be ignored, or followed through half-heartedly by a SM who feels they have no buisness interfering in their program. Jim I don't know if the current leader being malicious is what I sense from you. But, that they do not want to listen or pay attention to you is what I pick up. The shrugging off of using the flags as dodgeball boundry lines is one incident. Your speaking to the SM about change, and he just directing you to the PLC (which is correct to go to the PLC) but first should be his interest in what you have to say, or his discussing ideas further, then coming to an agreement and working as a team to approach the PLC would mean he has real interest in your ideas. Not just sending you off as a 'lone wolf'.. No they have chosen to ignore and/or humor you until you go away. That is the impression I have. Now take this current attitude, from them that they have for you and your ideas of change, then have you approach the committee to push for change that the SM has "hinted" by lack of interest that he does not want. This will buy you no friendship, or cooperation, they will see this as you sidestepping them to push for what you want. They are shutting you down by ignoring you, the last thing they want is for you to push your ideas on a group of people that might as a group listen to you, and then have more then one person nagging them for change. This is a formula meant for disaster. They will look at this as you forcing them to change by underhanded means.. Committees & SM/ASM can work well if they are all on the same page, They listen to each other, respect each other and both can have alot of say in the shaping of the program, as long as they are all working together. If the SM/ASM & committee have different views as to how the program runs, there is war between the two parties and the only one that can step in and lay down the law and get the two sides to work together is the COR. An absentee COR means full out war with no end in sight. If there is already tension in this unit, between the two parties the SM will not want you riling up the enemy. If there is peace, the committee is still they 'other side' that they wish to maintain peace with, and you would be threatening that peace. Someone coming to the committee with one or two ideas is fine, someone trying to change the whole program through the committee. If it's a committee member, it is expected. If though you want to sit in the SM/ASM camp rather then be a committee member, you take your ideas to the SM, and they are accepted there. Maybe if you are in a committee meeting, and a discussion arises were the discussion leads you to make suggestions, then the committee hears from an ASM without the issue being raised and approved by the SM first. Otherwise you pick your camp, and work within that camp and present ideas for change to the other side as a coheasive unit. If you want to be in the SM/ASM camp, but they are not buying into your ideas of change. End of story. You have lost. If you want to be in the committee camp, then you will have no ability to work with the boys in order to bring about the change. You will need to rely on the current Leadership to bring about the change. End of story. You have lost.

Sorry Beavah, I guess when you talked about your expirences, I always assumed they were based on your troop. So I guess I was not so good reading-between-the-lines with you. Understand where your coming from in saying there is a right way & wrong way to approach an issue. Same thing I am saying, but sometimes your reading between the lines are seeing Jim in a negative light where I don't see that. Yes I agree he can't save the troop, because of the attitudes of the adults. As stated many times scouting would be great if you could take the adults out of the equation. I will give you on "ALL SIDES" not just Jim's and not just the other adults in the troop.. Jim has a great background in scouting, which makes him believe he can change the troop. The thing is he does have the background. The thing is he will be resented for it, not valued for it. Jim's son needs to find a good troop, If it is a good troop, it will have volunteers there on an equal footing as Jim. Jim will be happy, the other leadership of the troop will be happy, and best of all the son will have a great program and be happy. But in the current troop he will just be a threat to the current leaderships security. If they don't take it out on Jim they will take it out on his son. Scouts are going to make friends where ever they go, that does not point to a good program. That only points to the normal tendencies of a healthy child. They could be in the worst school district in the State, and still make friends. May not learn to read, but will have friends (even if they call their friends their gang)... All I see is one general statement from Jim asking if there was any quality control in BSA, for troops that advance scouts who have obviously no merit to be at the rank.. Also that the program should be more then an hour long game of basketball or soccer.. That is all I see in his comments. I don't see any other lines about horsewhipping kids until they comply to BSA rules, or testing kids until they do the skill with eyes closed and one hand behind their backs. So where do you read into these statements he has a "new emphasis on being strict about testing and ranks?" ? I read into these same statements as he just feels the scout should be of normal aptitude to receive the rank, not handed it for taking up space. I see he has an average expectation of wanting his boy to do BSA related events in the BSA program. I don't know what it is Jim said that reminded you of some unpleasentness in your past, and I think you are not seeing Jim any more but some other "unknown" ghost. I think with scoutNut it was mention of his Eagle rank as proof of background. I could be wrong, but something set him off, and his harshest comeback was to that issue. But, I also see that he has alot of Scouting background and training beyond his young scouting years, to assess the quality of the troop. He has been in scouting for way past his youth to assess memories from fact of how BSA operates. I don't understand with all his years in scouting why before his son crossed over they did not visit more troops in the area. Maybe it was just that this is the troop the pack graduates to, and his son just choose to stay with his buddies from the pack. Let Jim know that his idea's to fix will not work. But don't attack him personally, or twist his words for hidden negative meanings.. Normally you & ScoutNut are very fair minded, and have I come to value most messages the both of you put out. Yes I did read-between-the-line on you incorrectly and think you were still active at unit level.. But, I only read-between-the-lines on you in a positive way. Yes I might also be reading-between-the-lines for Jim to see the positive. So sorry if I am wrong for seeing the best in people.

Beavah, the fact that I was not only talking about JimFritz current troop, but also about yours & Scoutnuts attitude, I had to add the comment that this attitude comes from both bad and good troops, because I know that is where you & SN attitudes are coming from, is the pride you have in the excellence of your units, so you do not like those who come in new & full of sweeping ideas. If I had just been addressing a bad troop it may have been a fact I could have overlooked, simply because my focus would not have been there at the time. Jim you definately do have the scouting background to make a wise decision for the benifit of your son's scouting experience. So I will trust that you will do so.

I agree with BadenP. But all I can say for the tone of Beavah & Scoutnut as they convey their sentiments, is this is the exact attitude you will deal with if you try to guide the troop into what you view is what a troop should be. You started off this thread by being concerned with a young scout's rank being revoked, to which Beavah stated as long as it is the SM decision then he must have a good reason and he will most definatly use it for a good teaching tool, you are wrong to bud in. Yet if you ask if Council monitors the quality of the units, he states "Quite da opposite, the BSA most frequently supports appeals against units that have your notion of quality".. So now for some reason your ideas of quality are some rigid idealism of perfection or you will not get the rank. Because you are trying to come into something and change it. Doesn't matter how bad it is, it is their troop, you shouldn't change it on them. So which ever stance you take and which ever arguement you make, know this. In their eyes you are wrong.. This is the attitude you will get if you try go into the committee with a list of changes. Some parents will be on your side, and support you. But if that is not the SM, ASM's or COR, you don't have a chance. They will resent your experience due to having the Eagle rank, just as ScoutNut does. They will resent the fact that you are a newbie trying to change everything. Parent support or not, you will not get appreciation or coopereation from those who count. Is this all the troops ...NO... So don't feel all is hopeless and why bother having your son involved. But this is the case with most bad troops, and with most troops with a deep history of being good. The ones with which are stuggling to achieve excellence are more open minded to advice from everyone, yours may not be the advice taken, but they listen to all. Those with a history of being good, will listen to your advice if you truely appreciate their program as is, but over time come up with one or two minor changes, then a few more a little bit down the road.. But start off liking their program for what it is. The bad ones, are just never going to be good, unless there is a total shakeup of those at the top level. SM, CC, COR, or if they have alot of scouts vote with their feet and walk, and they figure out they need to change or they wont have anyone in their program. Again as to knowing all the ins and outs of the power of the CO, and what Council will step into correct. Unless you have a CO that is involved, or if you have issues and see what council will not step in to correct.. Or you bring up the topic while sitting around the campfire and discussing it. You will not get this from training, the most the CO & COR is discussed is in Specifics when they bring up the organizational chart and their they are at the top.. Do they go into the fact they are the ones who run the show more then the district people.. The topic of CO & COR is less then a minute in Specifics. We did not learn the true power of the CO & COR until the end of our 2nd troop, when we asked a DE how we could get the SM & ASM to take the training. He told us to talk to the COR, and we asked why since all they do is sign the charter once a year. And this was after taking Specific twice & Outdoor leaders once. Then we got into a troop with an active COR and loved the change an active "Good" COR has to the unit. Sadly our original COR passed away, the troop (and pack) were without for a few years and this showed in the quality of the program. Our new CO was in the pack & troop, and expierienced the power of the old COR. Yet she came out of the COR training totally awed at the power she now possessed. People on this forum are always being educated about the power of the COR, from newbies to SM's to Committee Chairs.. It doesn't matter how long you are exposed to Scouting, the power of the COR can elude anyone for quite some time if their CO and COR are not actively engaged in the unit. I know the Scoutnut & Beavah have both been on threads where this education has floored the person who posted. So point to this comment as a sign you are not trained, to me just shows it doesn't matter to Scoutnut & Beavah what you say or do, you are wrong.

I think I would have flipped Scoutnuts points upside down, and said.. From what I have on your perspective of the Troop it definately needs fixing. Using flags for boundries?? I picture them lieing flat on the ground flags and all, even if they left them upright it would be wrong. Also you (and your expierence) do have something to offer this troop (not that they will listen.) But.. you can't use your expierence to overpower them. You will just get resentment, and they will do everything in their power to do things just to iritate you. Also I would imagine that if you hold training high, you at least were trained at the cub scout level, and may have started if not finished training at the Boy Scout level, but if not please do so. Questions like you asked, are NOT covered in your typical training unless you as a participant bring them up. They like to stay with the positive and how your troop should be running. And not with the negative of look for these trouble signs and raise the red flag if you see them. So you asking your questions does not show you are untrained. It is just not something we know about you yet. I have never seen them stop boys from advancing over poor leadership. I have seen them try to offer help to improve leadership, but council's offer to help is usually unwanted as much as new-to-the-troops offers.. Now what I have seen is a scoutmaster disbarred from being in the BSA organization, but this takes more then mismanagement, this took not treating the boys fairly (if the SM uses the tactic of removal of ranks alot and you notice it is with a certain set of boys, but never others. Or if the SM forms a subset group of his elite scouts and goes on outings with just them.) AND this behavior took not one parents complaint, not two parents complaints but at leaste 3 parents to complain at different times over the course of about 1 1/2 to 2 year time period. If it involves YPT problems they will be right on it. Therefore.. My take on it is.. Anything but YPT problems, you would have to do an awful lot wrong, before any action is taken. And the answer is "YES" it has tarnished the image of what it means to have the Eagle rank. So have other things like not being open to homosexuals or athiests. Those who have turned against BSA for their stance, will not put any meaning to the Eagle rank on a college app or job app. Likewise those who hired Eagle rank people who do not have good ethics, or are not self motivated. Will not consider it an asset again. I still see the rank of Eagle as having meaning to alot of people, but it has been tarnished.

Beavah - your statement "It works however da scout, his scoutmaster, and his parents want it to work, eh? It shows a fellow who doesn't understand that da BSA advancement program is designed for positive reinforcement, not negative, and is using it improperly." Has me confused. You seem to be backing the SM in his actions.. But, revoking a rank is what I call negative reinforcement.. So did you just say somewhere in there the SM is improperly using negative reinforcement, or somehow that the scout did, so somehow the SM is instilling in the boy as sense of how BSA uses positive reinforcement rather then negative by revoking a rank..?? (Scratching my head here).

My husband just took over as MBC his first priority is straightening out the very outdated MB book.. Luckily he has someone helping whose job allows her to make phone calls all day long at work, and it has taken her all summer and she is still going. There was alot of dead wood in there.. But also every time she calls she get complaints about this or that, they don't understand or like the new YPT requirement. They fear she's calling 'cause the fell off the list (well if they fell of she couldn't call).. They complain about the shape the MB list is in, but don't want people to contact them to validate it.. Anyway it is taking way longer they she had thought. We just got a Excel sheet from council that let us check who was still registered with Council. Turns out about 1/3 no longer are, so somewhere along the way Council dropped them. Those who did say they want to continue, will now need to get another call saying if they wish to they must reregister.. (Typical problems of when one hand is not talking to the other). We had lots on the list, there will be alot less when those who no longer are active are taken off, then YPT will whittle down more and then the dropped registration will whittle down more. But the smaller list will be ones the scouts can depend on, until we need to revamp again.

Thanks eagle.. Knew there would be a smart dobie out there able to help me!..

My feeling is the district creating a training date for this last minute, is probably because they are doing an ASAP training due to the agitated Cub Leaders who want training before starting up this year, and since National couldn't get their act together, they are stepping in for them.. Bravo!! Wish I could say I was able to do the same. Just got the syllabus myself, have to get it out to my trainers, and I am unsure if any of us have our heads wrapped around the changes to do an emergancy training.. Due to National dropping the ball. I am just going to have to grin and bear the rotten tomatoes thrown my way at the next roundtable.