moosetracker

I WAS surprised that my training staff was not there for the weekend. Most of them just flitted in for thier part and flitted out. I did have one trainer (who was EXCELLENT in the 2 skills he ran) who I found out speaking to him he use to be the Council Training chair. He stayed for most of it, but didn't help much.. I more felt he was evaluating me. I have two things in mind for next time. 1) Hold it at one of our Council camps so that I do not have to provide the shelter, tables, and firepit. 2) DO NOT run the cooking demo.. I had alot of participants that were well trained (we are now getting those who never took the training because they didn't need it, due to required training about to kick in). Anyway alot of them offered to be on my next training staff. I will need to see if they will be willing to not only speak but stay on for staff during. I am also contemplating having the participants not only cook their dinner / breakfast, but figure out their menu and provide there own.. There is just one flaw in that now that we don't have that Friday meeting a week before the weekend course, I am expecting people I am to assume know nothing, to coordinate a meal plan & the cooking gear. They did provide the cooking gear, as I listed this is what you are cooking and this is what you need to bring. I also organized the patrols and gave everyone each others email contact to organize the patrol gear. Does anyone else ask their patrols to plan the menu for the meals they need to cook?

Kindof hard with your son as SPL.. Does he want to leave or finish his POR? It may take him in the new troop to prove his knowledge and get that opportunity again. Yet, if he is ready to move-on, POR or not, then by all means do it now, before the bad troop causes him to loose all interest in scouting, be it a different troop or not. Otherwise you can use the time until his POR is complete to visit other troops in the area and make a "informed" decision on which other troop will be the best fit.

This past weekend I did my first ever training as the District Training chair the Outdoor Leader training. I think I bombed.. Royally.. And it was all in the organization.. I ran around non-stop All day Saturday and though I had some free time Sunday, still had panic attacts. This is how it went. 1) My predecessor hooked it up with the district Fall camporee. That meant no Pavilion, indoor training area, or canopy unless brought, also no tables, and no fire pit unless brought. 2) 2 weeks before the event the person who was to do the cooking backed out. I tried several ideas for replacements but got no one, as most people tied to troops would be with their scouts at the camporee.. So I took on the cooking skills. Friday night 1) I went to set up. But it was raw raining and the wind was blowing horribly. I had the help of my son (19 yo).. Although we set up and cleaned off our gargage tent, we got there and while setting up discovered one of the corner joints holding three poles together was missing. My son fashioned a corner by jamming sticks into the pole holes and lashing it. But the wind was blowing the canapy so we tied it down with rocks. Then everything else had to go under the canopy, I couldn't set up more due to the weather.. My one garage tent was not going to hold 26 people plus staff Plus all the equipment. (luckily good weather was forecasted for Saturday & Sunday).. Saturday. 4) I got there early to set up, (about 6:30) Garage tent blew down, and off into a deep gulley. All that held on it was the lashed joint. So that was worthless. 5) All participants weren't to be there until 8:30 but they started showing up at 7:00).. I started setting up the sawhorses & plywood tables then got their breakfast out (coffee & danish). Then checked the participants in. 6)Then as they started their classes I finished setting up the rest of the training area, and the area to demo the cooking skill place. Then I prepped for the cooking skill part, Items I couldn't prep ahead of time, like hollowing out oranges.. And setting things on different tables (we had a cast iron skillet, dutch oven, and utensiless cooking area). 7) Then came lunch and I had to organize the participants lunch (again not much just deli sandwiches, tomatoes, lettuce cheese etc.) They had a small amount of time to fix there sandwiches then while they ate, I did the cooking demo, and had them sample the items from that. 8) They went onto the next class and I had to clean up from the cooking demo, the pots & cooking utensils etc. 9) Next came dinner, Dutch Oven stew (so it was started about 2:30 and simmered all day).. So I was first busy helping all the patrols with their dinner prep. 10) When done with their dinner prep, I then started the prep for myself & my staff. 11) For some reason I was busy with dinner until it was ready about 5:30. 12) Got dinner (this is good because I missed Breakfast, lunch and even a drink of water up to this point.) 13) Dinner over and participants getting ready to go up to the OA fire.. Husband looks over at me and says "Ready to go" I look at him and say "NO way, can't go".. "Why?" he asks. I look at not only the dirty pots and utensils of the staff dinner, but that the serving table was in shambles and needed to be redone. So I stayed until 8:30 pm cleanning up. Husband did stay to help. We got in the car to warm up (no rain but bitter cold).. Stayed there about 45 minutes and when I got out I could bearly move, I had aches all over the place. Sunday (Luckily I could move, I feared I'd be worse in the morning) 1) All I had for meals was breakfast and I made the decision that staff would have left over danish, as it was suppose to be pancakes & bacon.. I did not want to cook or clean. 2) Still had to clean as participants handed me the containers I gave them the day before with milk and eggs for their pancakes back dirty. 3) First trainer did not show up, so I had 2nd trainer go on. Then my son was the 3rd trainer, and when first trainer never showed up, my son got out his backpack and did that part unprepared. Husband helped Son.. 4) While son & husband are training, I am breaking down all the things we brought, to put in the trailer to go home. 5) Hand out the training cards.. Other help from Husband & son?? Husband set up to do a merit badge with a scout that morning and sat and talked to him about 4 hours. then I found my ice had all melted so he went out for ice and came back about 2 hours later. Later we ran out of one tank of propane, but had another. I thought we were fine, he insisted to go for that, and was gone another 2 hours.. Otherwise he is a sociallizer.. But did help with the dirty dishes in the evening. Son - set up the fire and manned that, he helped other trainers with their presentations, and helped during my cooking demo, otherwise I might ask him to cut the tomatoes, or potatoes or something, and got back questions like "How do I do that?" When I knew he knew how, and I was not in the mood to explain how to cut a potato. But he organized for the Plants & Animals when I could find no one, and he took on the backpacking when one trainer was a no show. OK this schedule will burn me out... So advice on how to make it look like being the Training Chair is a simple task of checking people in, and handing out training cards when they are done?? Because that is what it always seemed like to me, when I was taking training.

Well I think there is a difference between the rule our committee created, and the one this troops committee created. Our SM asked for a rule for the committee members to be trained before going on outings.. He already had his own rule that he would not accept an ASM who had not sat on the committee for at least a year, and who was not fully trained. So this rule was truely on and about those committee members that wanted to tag along on scouting events. The committee does take care of issues concerning it's own committee members, and parents. He had an issue over having 12 - 15 parents coming on camping trips with no training, so his worries all weekend long was not about the scouts but about monitering the parents. He did not want to cut them off all together, but insisted that if they were to go, they were to go with the full training of any of his ASM's so they could be an asset and not a burden. This other troops committee made a rule up that punished the scouts for the fact their SM was untrained. Your right the SM should have jurisdiction over what effects the scouts, not the committee.

Yeah, I think in the long run most of us really are in agreement, it is just we are looking at the situation from different perspectives. Is it ok to be gung-ho and zip through your ranks. Yes, but only if it is balanced by enjoying the journey and not having tunnel vision that Scouting is all about obtaining a rank to Eagle in order put it on a resume, or brag you got it at some young age or what-not. If you are not enjoying the journey, or if you are not stopping to understand that the real benefit of Scouting is not about the advancement but about the adventure, then slow it down. If you do get to a rank of Eagle early, then it is time to stay and enjoy scouting. But, if you don't see a reason to stay once you earned the rank. Then all you got was an award, but you never learned the spirit of scouting and really didn't get much from the program. I could be wrong, some of you may state it is all about the award, get it ASAP and then take-off.

I will agree if possible you shouldn't wait until the week of your 18th birthday. These boys should definately pass on their knowledge to the 15+ boys not to wait to the last minute. A young scout not even a year into the program, and already zipping along, is probably not the audience he should be reaching out to. But, they are young, even at 18, so they will pass on their knowledge to whom ever will listen without thinking of the effect it may have on one audience vs another. As UCEagle72 stated, he finish up at 14, but he stayed in.. So here is another way to take the fast track but still get the true benefit of boy scouts. Problem is if someone is only looking at scouting as a means to the rank of Eagle, they normally take the fast track, earn the award, and move on for two reason. 1) Once they earned the award, since they never learned what scouting was all about, they don't see a need to hang around. 2) Since all they did in Scouting was work for the Eagle Rank, they missed out on the fun, and again see no reason to hang around.

I don't think the "AHG/BSA alliance" is to merge the two programs into one, but rather have some common groupings like camporees or summer camp programs. I could be wrong but I get that from this comment "It looks to be a wonderful way for the boys and girls to work together on some things (because that does offer valuable experiences) and yet still allow for the same-sex benefits/refuge aspect as well." In which case I don't think the difference of religious ideals will be any more different then a multi-religious group being at a camporee next to a 100% LDS unit, or methodist unit.. It is just that our LDS will probably not camp next to a AHG group and not because of their christian based beliefs.

Ahh.. yes.. but my travelors are enjoying the sights, meeting the people and tasting the cuisine.. I consider local cuisine as not McDonalds, and meeting people and seeing sites as not through the local news channel. If your son is ENJOYING what he is doing, and going on campouts and other events for the adventure and not for the sole purpose to knock off a few requirements, then he is probably fine.. You just started out the thread stating your son was trying to make first class in 7 to 8 months.. Just made it sound like your son may have had tunnel vision that scouting was about getting checked-off on requirements and zipping through ranks. Scouting is so much more, the advancement and ranks should be a by-product of the fun.. And really you should rethink the need to pull yourself out of scouting. As long as you are with the unit to help and guide every boy who needs guidence and not sole for your son, BSA always needs and can use more volunteers.

There is a difference between quality and speed. If runintherain's son just knows the skills and wants to check those off, then is slowing down to enjoy learning the rest of it and enjoying his time in the troop, all the power to him. If he is running a marathon to finish reach Eagle rank first, he is missing alot of quality.. That is all that is being stated here. It is like comparing two people traveling cross country from New England to California. One does it in 2 1/2 days, not even sleeping or eating, the other does it in a month stopping to enjoy the sights, meet the people, taste the cuisine.. Now if you want to say the person who traveled in 2 1/2 days had more quality in their trip over the one who took a month because they got there first.. I will disagree with you.

It might be sour grapes, it might be that they already got the lecture on not encouraging their sons to take the fast track, but rather slow down and enjoy life. If they are chomping at the bit to motivate their sons, yet having a quarrel with their inner demons, watching a boy take the fast track may make them step in with either a "If I can't do it, you shouldn't either" or just trying to pass on what they have been told. You state service projects, as evidence of having fun. What about camping outings, hikes, snow skiing, fishing. etc...?? Of course your son may be one of those rare kids who define fun as a service project, in which case that is just fine. I have one similar, his whole life he felt awkward around kids his own age, and loved hanging out with the adult leaders. His better trips were the ones when the Adult Leaders were more relaxed and not shooing him away from their circle and back to be with his patrol, but he got to hang out and talk with the adults. After he got his Eagle and became a JASM (about 16 1/2 yo), he was in his glory because he got to hang out with the Adults. When there was a possibility that a Venture Crew would be a part of the troop he was very against joining. He definately did not want to be a kid until 21. Forget the "fun" of high adventure, not if he had to give up his acceptance into the adult community. Now at 19-20 he is not happy to be an ASM in the troop, but him and his 19 yo Fiancee have rangled into the Troop Committee (not suppose to be there until 21) and District Committee (can't be member at-large until 21, but they accept him on the sub-committee).. I don't know what he will want to do when 21, and he has no age barrier, to defeat. So if your son considers service projects as "fun" great..

I agree with twocubdad. Quick advancement is doable, but not advisable. Your son will loose alot of what scouting is about, the fun the adventure, the friendships. Leadership POR's can be done at 12 or 13, but the boy will not really understand the role of leadership working with his peers, and older scouts. Some of the value comes when working with the younger scouts. He can't be a leader to younger scouts if he himself is the younger scout. Knowledge is one thing, maturity is another. Also getting Eagle at 13 or so can be done, but is not really seen as something to brag about, simple for the above mentioned reasons. People in scouting will feel the boy got the rank, but missed out on the spirit of what scouting is all about. I do understand though about Adults maybe trying to compare their son with yours and getting competitive. We had that happen with our son. Strangely from the man who was his den leader and had been a good den leader.. When they went into Boy Scouts, my son went up for his scout badge early (all was really learned for the arrow of light).. I think he may have been working well on the next rank. The Father came up to us very upset and stated. "Your son can't be at this level, because my son is not there yet." We left that troop for other reason, but when ever we met up with him he was definately trying to figure out where our son was compared to his son, and still very competitive. Hard to not fall into being competitive with people like this, but the main goal is to make sure the program is working for your child. So please don't get trapped into some sort of feeling you must prove them wrong. Your son should find other pleasures in scouting then just be on an advancement trail. It's the difference of really enjoying his time in scouting, or just going through scouting and getting an award.

We went camping this weekend during camporee, although not below 0 degrees did get frost on tent and lots of moisture in tent. Husband and I used our one 4 season tent, since the 3 young adults (son, fiancee, psudo-son) used the other 3 tents. Maybe there is a moisture thingy we are suppose to open or something, and we have forgotten what we are to do, because all 4 tents seemed to collect frost & moisture inside about the same.

Good job! The CM job or SM job does go better if you are someone who can delegate. Utilize your ASM's & committee and you won't be burned out.

Sort of sounds like our SM. this past weekend was our fall camporee. He insisted on leaving on friday at 5pm. Although few parents could get out of work to drive at this time. Everyone was to have dinner before leaving. thursday evening, late, he emails asking for firewood.. Yeah like I'm going to hunt around in the woods at 10 pm at night for firewood for him.. So 5 pm Friday comes, he is late to the parking lot, when he gets there he states his son and he had yet to eat, so everyone had to stop so he could eat. Then he has the caravan of cars go over to whomever offered the wood so they could get that. there was something else he did, that slowed everything down.. they didn't leave our home town until about 7:30 pm.. Meanwhile everyone gathered early at 5pm to follow him around on errands for 2.5 hours. I was already at the camporee with my son, setting up the district training site. But the scouts when they finnally came in were very pissed off at their SM.

I know my son likes Boys Life, he is now an adult leader and when he changed they started sending him Scouting magazine for the adult.. He is now trying to get them to put him back on Boys Life. Did it help him advance..? Hard to say.

Site selection is very important when camping in the great indoors.. You must position yourself so you are near the TV and the Fridge at the same time. Also look out for those ferocious house cats!!!

Welcome, will enjoy seeing you around the boards.

I always think of Alumni as those that left the troop 10 or more years ago.. But your right, Alumni is those that left the troop. We have 4 over 18's that are still around, but since they never left I don't think they are alumni. We have one Alumni that just brought his son into the program. I always felt bad, the old SM of the troop that was the SM for about 20 years and from what I can tell had a very active group of scouts wanted to come back. The COR at the time said "No", due to I guess he was a member of the church that is our CO and the COR found him too controling and a perfectionist that no one else was right. I still felt that you could control his overpowering the troop by giving him a small position, but it was not very scout like to deny his return.

Yeah, if it happened a year ago, then the SM has already formed his opinions of the scouts and their parents behavior. The behavior seemed to be such that it would only take a week or two to form you own opinion. Maybe it would have been pertanint to pass on when the scout transitioned a year ago. At this point it is old news, and not worth passing on.

Committees with enough adult leaders have a training chair, and most units use troopMaster or Pack master to track adult training. Plus at recharter time, they will mark a leader Trained or untrained for the position they hold. When required training comes into play, it will be another reason for a committee to make sure their leaders take the required training.. So that the committee know what training their leaders have and have not taken I don't see as an issue. You are right about the SM being the gatekeeper. When our committee put in the rule of Leaders having the full training of a SM within a year of registration or they are denied going on events, it was not something the committee came up with on a whim. The SM at that time came to the committee and asked that they put this rule in place and enforce it. The committee then voted to back the SM. I as the training chair at the time, informed newly registered Adults, helped them find training courses, watched things and enforced the rule. SM changed over time, and the adult leaders got smaller. The SM started ignoring the rules to get someone on the event. So I brought it up that we should do away with the rule seeing it wasn't enforced anymore and made no sense to be given our current circumstance. The SM said he wanted to keep the rule, I was to enforce it, then continued to ignore the rule and made me the bad guy if I said anything to him or the untrained adult leader going on the event. So I just resigned the position.. The SM is and should be the gatekeeper for this, the committee can only support him with it. But, the SM must support the committee if he is requesting something from them. Don't know if the committee is trained. But their training is all on-line, so it would be easier for them to do so quickly, where as the training for SM & ASM take the time due to not all courses are on-line so they must find courses offered that isn't interfering with the rest of their schedule.

Yeah to compare this to a merit badge counsilor that was not registered. I would have to be here complaining that two unregistered parents took boys from the troop on a camping trip and were upset because the troop council did not give them credit for the event. The merit badge counsilor in the example is unregistered. This camping trip took place with the SM and an ASM in attendance. Nationals required training will undoubtly hurt some troop and ultimately boys if their adult leaders refuse to be trained. They will end up not able to register at recharter time. This may make the troop short of people to take the boys on events, or if those refusing training are your top leaders and no one steps up to fill their shoes a unit may fold. This is a hardship, I see it could happen. But the units should utilize nationals policy to get their leaders trained, or some policy that will just deny the adult leader of priviledges, but not adding on to the strictness of the policy in a way they are making it harder for the boys to get their requirments for a rank or MB harder. Actually strangely enough National policy is pretty much what our troop once had in effect, the adult leader has a year to get trained, then they can't reregister if they don't get trained in that year. Only we did have the option as a committee to take the rule down when the troop, or boys were going to be negitively effected by it. Now we will not.

Oh not at all!.. When the rule was in effect we had adult leadership of 6 to 15 going on the outings. Now that the troop is hard pressed to get adult leaders to go on outings, the rule got tossed out the window.

Besides which, if they were so stuck on the training, why vote him into the position? Knowing he was unqualified to take the boys anywhere? IOLS only is offered in spring and fall. As stated we are the only district offering IOLS in the council this season, so it is not a course you can get trained in within a week after being put in a position. All it takes is something else on the weekend of training (like a wedding)to miss the training in the Spring. I doubt he has been in the postion for more then a year, knowing who the SM was before him.

It would be a good point. But, my understanding is it is fine for the SM to take the scouts on outings, there was no quibbling about he could not take them anywhere. It is just they don't count it towards anything for the boys until they are trained. Of course it is a one sided account. We too as a committee put in a rule for our troop that to go on outings, the adult leader had to do all the on-line required training available, and had a year from registration to get the required training.. We never as a committee applied it to a punishment on the boys if they didn't get trained. Just the adult after a year had to stop going on the outings until trained. If the adult went 1 1/2 years past registration with still no Specifics or IOLS training, and the committee didn't catch it on the 1 year anniversary, we would never have back out all the events the scouts went on as not counting because the adult went past his due date, and we didn't catch it sooner.

eagle92 - can't be patrol camping, as it was more then one patrol on the camping trip, it was boys from the troop. Your right Eagledad, like the whole committee should go back to training to listen to the part of "You can't change requirements for the boys, to make it harder or easier." the only requirement to count the camping is to camp overnight.. could be backpacking, summer camp, tailgate camping, igloo camping etc.. There isn't any mention as to a tour permit or the adult leadership.. So it could be patrol camping with leadership no where in site. but nothing in the requirement states your adult leadership must be IOLS trained.