moosetracker

Yeah thats what I found, like I said it is frowned upon to solicite items. It is usually done by most units from my belief, including ours. It is so much so done, they really can't keep that enforced. But, at least with our council if they get word of you holding a raffle, or soliciting for money yeah they will come after you both guns ablazing. Can not gamble, or ask out right for money. That one they do try to enforce, and do pretty good at it too, though not 100% I am sure.

As scoutlass says. Reminds me, about a month ago I saw a can on the counter for donations for an "Eagle project".. All it said was please help this scout become an "Eagle" Like we charged him a fee for the rank because there was nothing about the project or what he needed the donation for. It didn't have the scouts name on it but it did have a troop number on it. I told my husband the advancement chair of the district. He was going to bring it to the attention of the guy who heads his Eagle board. I wonder if he did. This is a big "no,no".. Besides being wrong, the whole message on it was just down-right tacky.. Anyway some units do do it, not the tacky can bit, but the soliciting.. Such as asking for food donations for a supper or an Eagle canidate may ask for supplies for free or at a discount. These are frowned upon, and still considered not right. A bigger "no,no" is a raffle or asking for money when you are not selling an item.. I was told the reason is that the council wants to go for the LARGE donations, and when units nickle and dime their prospectives, it hurts their chances of the larger donations. So we are not suppose to solicit so that they can.

The fourth that people often use to try to get around this is the category of non-official family recreational camping on Scout property. I would think the same would go for family camping on private property too. I think back on when my son was in CS. It was before Pack camping was allowed. I believe Webelos was as I heard rumors of it back then, but our DL was not into it. Anyway our Pack did one Pack campout a year under the guise of Family camping we went to private property. We had organized games and such. We held our graduation ceremony from one rank to the next where the CM put on a hat with fur and horns that looked like the (Fred Flinstones Grand Pu-Ba hat). Etc etc. Defiantly a Pack event. So just looking back, if someone got hurt during these events in this sue-crazy world would the Pack & CO really not be liable? I mean if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck.. are the courts going to believe you when you tell them it was not a duck? So now with the fact that camping Is allowed for Packs under certain circumstances, and it seems people are mis-interpreting the rules. Would the BSA cover you, or are you on your own. I what I read, I think if you filed a tour permit for pack camping, had someone BALOO trained yet only invited one den from the pack, it is against the rules, but BSA would cover you. But if you do not file a tour permit, have no one BALOO trained, and call it family camping. It would not be covered under BSA insurance and you and your CO would be on the hook. But, that is my interpretation of when BSA insurance would and would not cover an in good faith mis-interpretation. Am I right with this assumption?

Sorry - you are right, but since one of them is my son, and the others are those who he grew up in the troop with.. Mom just has a hard time with the concept.

There are problems to be sure, but for all it's problems, it is better then being owned by the BSA org. Currently we have problems with DE's trying to control their district Committees, and Top level council exec's stealing the money that is to go into the scouting program for personal gain. If they owned the units, things could be worse. Thing is that if the CO were involved they could put an end to this manipulation. But, if they were not there at all, there would be no controling them.

Well, "just fell into it after our last SM resigned" Doesn't mean this SM is new, he has been here for 2 years. Everything was tried to "guide" him in the first year, then everyone just gave up on him. The scouts in our committee want to be useful and attempt to fix the troop, which can't be done from the ASM position, since they aren't allowed to do anything. But, yeah they with other adults promoted having the adult positions be voted on every June just before ending for summer, and got that approved and backed by the COR. And they were all set to vote an new SM in, last June, but it fell through. So they are working on someone new to vote in this coming June. So in that case the committee vote is important to have in attempting to fix the troop. Because until they do get a new SM in that will give the power back to the boys, they know they are just making the troop tolerable, but not getting it back to it's former glory.

jblake - The SM and ASM's all sit in the back and chats while the boys run the troop. But when called upon they work with the boys to support them in whatever they decide. This may be your troop. Our troop, is the ASM sit and talk, because the SM is running the troop, not the boys. Yes, it has become an Adult run program. Wasn't always this way, just fell into it after our last SM resigned. The SM may run the troop, but he is very disorganized. My son does alot being the outdoor coordinator. Of course it is mostly done 2 days before an event, because no one will let him know who is going on the event until then. Or the SM do something that causes our son twice the work it would have been had the SM not stuck his nose in it. Until we can get a SM to hand the reins back to the boys, and to be organized enough to get the committee the info they need to do what they need to do, it is an effort for the committee to organize at last minute what needs to get done, things maybe the scouts could have done.. At least the committee is handing it back to the 18-21+ young adults, by moving them into the committee. But, can't do much about the boys in the troop. You can issue all the rules you want, this will let the SM know you are unhappy, but if he is the wrong personality for the job, not much you can do to vote him a new personality. Nice guy really, just all wrong for this position. Can not delegate to save his life, nor organize to save it either.

I agree with Stosh.. Kids can be brutal given the opportunity, and it's a nasty way to have the kids do what the adults are not brave enough to do themselves in an adult and professional manner.

So where does BALOO come into this. Like if 2 families of a den go on a pack organized campout, doesn't one adult of those 2 families need BALOO?.. Or if you skip the whole pack organized, and just do family camping.. Does anyone really need BALOO? Just wondering as I am taking BALOO training myself this weekend. Then I want to promote offering a course to our district, which has never done BALOO training, nor promoted it. Some Packs have gone to training in neighboring district. But I think more just eithe don't camp, or do "family" camping because our district doesn't promote it as something important they should have.. Maybe it isn't something important that they need, if they just always call it family camping and the BSA insurance will stand behind it.

Nachamawat - No 18 - 21 year olds can be ASM's, and be merit badge counselors. Just can't be committee members. qwazse - All troops run their committee differently. The following link show the CC and the committee above the SM.. http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Troop_organizational_chart Our troop have the CC & committee vote equal to the SM.. Most times we come to an agreement (sometimes with arguement).. If we can not come to an agreement then the COR makes the decision. Your troop has the Committee under the SM.. Our older scouts just want nothing to do with our SM, they would rather work for and report to the CC.. In being in the committee they would like to have a vote, so they feel equal. And yes we do vote on things, that sometimes influence the way we want the program to go. Such as lately it is .. SM you have to start taking the boys camping, not just to day outings. SM you can't continue to cancel the camping trips due to lack of planning. SM you have to stop controlling everything and let the boys run the troop. SM your SM minutes cannot ramble on for 15-20 minutes of the troop time. on and on and on.. Stupid things that the committee should not have to be dictating. Before this SM, with our other SM's.. There would be votes on things about the adult leadership. Such as what training they needed to go on troop events.. Or votes on what the troop would fund for events and what the boys must raise Like we will pay for the car gas, but the scouts must fund the cost of the white water trip. The 18-20 year olds, just want to be a part of something that will attempt to bring back a good program to the troop, as they were raised in the troop with a good program, and want to find ways to save the troop they are loyal to. So they want to voice their opinion with a vote in the committee, if that is what they have. They also want to do something for the troop, and if you are an ASM under the current SM you hang around at a Troop meeting in the back and just talk. If your on the committee you get a job and can do something productive for the troop.

Interesting little tidbit of knowledge. So no one under 21 can be a voting member of the troop or district committee, unless they are the OA chapter cheif, then he can have a vote on the district committee.

Yes, all he can do is register as ASM, that's on paper.. He also will need to do the required training for ASM by the time it is required to re-register. Internally in our troop, we figure out what the youth wants to do, and if there is a need for that type of position, we let him do it. My son from 18 (now 20) has been on the committee as the Outdoor Coordinator. Another boy from 18 has been an assistant to the Advancement coordinator and they work out the team effort. A young woman (19) is our Saftey coordinator for the troop. Then all the rest are just doing the ASM thing. They all need to be re-registered as ASM, but we as a unit give them the leeway to choose what interests them. I kindof understand the ASM thing, as they are to report under the SM until 21, but I kindof don't as in "What is so difficult about a committee position that make it have to be 21 or over?.. The youth on our board would rather report to the CC and therefore do. To me the only 2 jobs I see in a troop needing to be 21 or over should be SM & CC.. Likewise for Cubscouts CM & CC.. Ventures maybe not as their youth are up to 21 so to have them be on the committee may be not right.. can't think of the term.. but sort of like someone on a board giving a contract to their own private company.. Some are also finding interesting postions at the district level. He can't be a voting member of the district committee, but they never turn down helpful hands. I will be looking for some between the ages of 18-21 to be some of my district trainers. They know the Boy scout program, and adults respond well to a young man if he presents himself professionally during the training.

We always thought it would be cool if the sides of the trailer could fold down to maybe a bit above the hubcap. then you could have it become an instant table. Then put along both the sides those rollup awnings, so you could pull them out over your tables and wha-la.. your trailer has the tables on either side with the rain sheild above it each table. How great is that!

I understand the training during RT. But, this Nov. is the only time we are doing it. We are doing a training in Internet Rechartering & Advancement. We are doing another in YP. I had been stating that at each District Committee meeting. But I guess our District Commish didn't put two & two together. When I emailed to remind him I needed 2 rooms, he laid into me about doing my trainings at RT.. He stated "Roundtable is a Commissioner event that is a meeting of Unit people to learn new and old ways to enhance the Scouting Spirit with program offerings that are meant to stimulate ideas that can be used by those leaders back in their Units." I told him the Internet training is run annually at RT just before rechartering, and that the YP I expected no one to show. But it is just to make the offer in good faith. The guy who used to be our Distict Chair is the one doing the Internet training. He says the RT is definately for training and technically falls under my domain as District Training Chair.. I prefer to tiptoe around that though because I definately am not prepared to tick off the DC and have RT fall into my lap with no one running it. I still haven't mastered the rest of my job. So we will go light on doing Basic training at RT from now on.

John-in-KC -- Your numbers scare me. We are expecting most people to take YPT on-line. At RT this comming month though we are offering YPT just before registration. I figured it a nice jesture to offer it to the computer challenged, but I am picturing my YPT trainer sitting in an empty room. I figure even the computer challenged will either have someone from their unit come with a wifi hookup and get them on-line and trained up. I am making about 20-25 copies of the YPT test for the course. I plan to take home 20-25 copies. I had better not have 300 people wander in. After having a cardiac arrest. I will pummel them all for not having taken it on-line. I would love to keep interest in the Specifics even after being on-line. But, I do think the YPT is fine to take on-line, especially when you have to retake it every 2 years. Still I am glad our UoS is in the Spring, so they can't do that to us.. Now I don't feel so bad about running the same courses as we did 2 years back at our UoS this comming year. At least it is better then doing the everyday training.

Boy I'm glad our UofS is in March. They can't pull that on us, or rechartering is over and through with. The problem I see with making UofS only the required training is that: 1) the direct contact leaders how have not gone to your other countless trainings will not go to this one either. 2) the leaders who are trained in the basics will not go to UofS either as there is nothing for them. Well at least yours is yearly not every other year, so I guess you can afford a dead UofS.. Sorry, I have not seen your list of course offering, maybe it is not as bad as you two make it sound.

Sorry twice a year is what I meant.. Yeah bi-yearly is twice a year.. No our Council is not that gung-ho. Other training is yearly or twice a year, depending on the district, and maybe what the training chair wishes to concentrate on.

This may be a difference of programs, but in our units the scouts (including problem scouts) are the SM territory. The Adults (including problem parents) are the committee chairs territory.. If you have problem a scout with problem adult(s) the SM & CC tag team it. But the SM has enough with the boys, and usually does not need to deal with the parents also. At least that is how our progam works, concernedParent's unit may work similar.

This is one of those things that National posted, and the statement is too general and subject to interpretation. It is really up to the SM to decide how he interprets, because there are several interpretations. Does improvement mean from zero to 1, from nothing to bending the elbow a little, or as jblake states show improvement on everything over all.. This SM is not wrong in his interpretation, but the others are equally right. You could only state it is wrong a wrong interpretation if the SM wanted the improvement to be from zero to seeing the boys do 5 or 10. Therefore these boys may need to change troops if they have an SM that just wont bend to a different interpretation. Before hopping though you should sound out the other troop on how they interpret this, or the transfer is for nothing.

We only hold ours bi-yearly. How many do yearly? How many do bi-yearly?

I was going to hold off until others answered your original question. I did not have a handbook to say for sure. Agree with Troop24, if they have been having the other things signed off, then they can progress very rapidly once they get past this bottleneck, I think they can have all 3 ranks awarded in the same BOR.. But, that may take a move to a different troop, if you can not get this SM to follow what is stated in the book. I also wanted to add, this will come up again when doing the physical fitness MB. In there it is also only to show improvement, so these boys may have to sound out a potential MB counselor about the problem before deciding if they are the right counselor for them. Just so the same issue does not resurface.

Now that I am a District Training Chair I was excited to go to the pre-organizational meetings. Our Council chair said before the meeting that she was hoping we would have alot of new ideas, she wanted it to be different and special, because on-line was having people come out less to meet up, so she wanted to entice them to come to Scouting-U. Well I admit I did not have lots of my own ideas, I had one I gave at an earlier meeting which was accepted. But, I came prepared having pulled about 5 - 6 other councils Scouting-U's off line so we could look through those for ideas, and went to the meeting pumped-up. We spent the meeting going over last years list, they kept everything but 1 item. Added the idea I had at a previous meeting and 1 other, and we were done. I felt sort of disappointed. Somethings should never be let go as they are the favorites and people return to them year after year. But, to leave it the same selection?

Welcome, So you have been reading our posts and we didn't scare you off?.. You should fit in just fine then.

Well Your comment I will continue to ask him if he's done his chores and if he's recorded them Is more subdued in helping then your original comment of.. He has to be reminded almost every day to do the chores and to record them. Does it mean he hasn't earned the badge because I practically dragged him along to get it done? No, he did the work (grudgingly)" At least it is not daily.. while he is dragged protesting through it. But still doesn't fit the writing in the Family life MB pamplet. is to do your chores without complaining or being asked No one is asking you to make the scout figure out how to get to the scout meeting on his own. Although at 17 he may just do that, it is not a requirement of BSA, and although you may need to teach him to drive and have safe driving habits, you normally do not have to drag a boy into to the car and force him to drive.. The second they are of age they will be at the wheel honking for you to come out of the house and take them out to practice. There may be hope for you yet though.. Little by little we may convert you to allowing your son to do for himself. We made a small dent.

You can probably get a better understanding of it by going to the on-line learning center and watching the "ScoutParents Unit Coordinator Fast Start" video. Basically an active ScoutParent is nothing more then what it was in the past. An active Scout Parent. But I think the Unit Coordinator is a great idea if you have someone in the troop with a personality that will encourage their envolvment. It's parents that do not register, but are willing to help. In a troop this could be helping to provide rides to an event, or be the popcorn kernal, or organize the annual scout breakfast etc. That you have that little tick in the boys registration form.??? Maybe it is because the form now is not devided with a seprate form for cub scout youth and Boy scout youth and a tiger scout "must" have an adult sign up to be the "scout parent".. I am unsure if it is needed beyond this point.. A Scout Parent unit coordinator I am sure will engage parents whether or not they put a tick in the Scout parent box.