moosetracker

Is the older boys a seperate issue, or are they the same age of the boy who lost the SPL spot?.. In otherwords are they a "Clique" and if the SPL can "grudgingly" convert the original problem, he can "grudgingly" convert the rest of them.. Or is he dealing with two different issues. The one thing your friend needs to remember is to hang in there.. His post as SPL is for a short time over the rest of his scouting career. For good or for bad, the experience he gains from it will help make him stronger when he walks into the real world and falls into a similar situation. (Like being a new hire for a company and others resenting his hire, because they wanted the job, or did not feel they needed extra help.) You posted on the weekend. Sometimes the boards get quiet on a weekend, but I am sure eventually there will be more giving you advice then me.. I asked my husband, this is his advice. But, it will take courage on the part of your friend. Organize a meeting with the boy and his parents and the SM (for a witness of what is said). Directly approach the issue. Something like. "I know I was elected to this position rather then name of boy .. I am trying to do a good job, but feel hindered by the three of you. I can't help but think it is personal because of the election. I want all of you to remember that my term in this position is short, it will only be 6 months (or whatever). In the meantime, your undermining my ability to do the job, is changing the dynamics of this troop from being boy led, to being adult led.. This change may linger for years.. Also while you undermine me while I am SPL, you are building up resentment in my friends in the troop. Eventually name of boy may have his chance to be SPL, there will be another election in xxx months. (if he could promote the boy for the next election he could say that, but there may be reasons he wouldn't.).. But if not, the undermining of my authority continues, this will be remembered by others in the troop, both during the time of election, and (if he gets the position) while he is SPL.. I'd rather find a way for the four of us to work together over the course of my term, and then work together over the course of name of boy term. If we work together we can make this troop strong. If we continue to pull each other apart, the troop will suffer. If he has the courage to make his stand, and talk not only about himself, but the good of the troop, and he has the SM as witness. He should gain their respect. If not, he has tuned the SM in to the fact these 3 are only in the troop for the benifit of the son, not the troop.. Your SM may be new, and unsure of himself, but over time this should change. As SPL your friend can try to help the SM in his new role, by advising him on the difference between boy-led in a troop, and adult-led of a Pack.. By trying to give helpful friendly advise, rather then just grumbling behind his back for his inability to do the job, or argueing with him over an issue. If the troop put someone in the position of SM who just hopped out of cub scouts, he may be there because he was the only one willing to take on the position, not realizing what he was getting himself into. The boys of your troop can respect him for stepping up, and help him learn his new job. Your friend helping the troop get a good SM during his time as SPL will be a feather in his cap at the end of his term even if nothing else works out.

Question is, did they let the SPL's before him run the troop? If the troop is truely boy-lead, the Adults should know better then to unravel all the work of getting the troop to be boy-lead for one SPL.. I would guess the troop was never really boy-lead in the first place. He may have difficulty with the boy he ran against, but his focus should not be on him, but on working with the adults. If this scout is able to get a rise out of the SPL by pushing his buttons, it will do nothing to improve his image with the adults. Could this SPL get the boys to back him? Starting with his Patrol Leaders.. If the Patrol Leaders will back him, they can collectively talk to the SM & ASM's.. I would imagine if he was elected by his peers, he must have the majority of their backing.. The boys must come up with an idea of how they want the troop to run, and put into words what boy-lead means to them. Then as a group (Patrol Leader Council if all the boys) present their demands to the SM & ASM's of the troop.

I know we tried to offer a Venturing Specifics in our district, but our trainers were small and hadn't done one in years, due to no one coming. Again no one registered & it was canceled.. I know two of our Venturing crews are trained, and they are are two strongest. No one else has any training. But, from what I hear it is offered at the Council level once a year, and at a Ventureing group event.. So we probably wont even try to offer it again. If they want it, they can get it in those two places.. Would be better training then what our little district can do for them anyway.. Let's hope they get training, before top leadership is required for our district (We are not a pilot council).. I agree with GMitch that the Specific for BS will soon also be released.. Our CS Specifics stayed about equal in people coming to the BS Specifics, so I am guessing the course will have the same amount of attendees regardless of on-line of off.. Still my trainer pool is lower then I need it and I am in need of new blood, regardless of the on-line training...

I loved this statement by a troop leader I met.. I think this is truely the spirit of scouting. "Our Troop is as large as we need or want it to be. We are currently helping our neighboring troop who has had a hard time growing, improve their program, so that both our troops offer excellent programs, and scouts will be as happy to go to their troop as ours."

This site is fine in allowing me to choose my password exactly the way I want to.. I may not have passwords on stickynotes, but I do have a notebook next to the computer with otherthings as well as a site, the password & the username.. With various sites (and at work) various computer software that I need to log into it is impossible not to.. There are the software that I don't get to choose my password, the sites that require a certain number of charactors some with max & min different then others. Then the ones that need a number, a symbol, and upper/lower case etc. Then the ones that force you to change your password every 60 to 90 days and wont let you reuse a password again for 5 to 20 cycles.. Usernames also some will not let you pick them, others force it to be your email, or have a max/min size, others you need to find something different because someone already has the one you normally use. When all is said and done you end up with 25 -50 different passwords with different combinations of usernames to add to the mess all to different sites.. All this "extra" security, forces those of us that have to live with it to write down our passwords for each site next to the name of the site in order to survive, thus forcing us to have no security at all. Like I said, the retyping the Username/pswd here may be tedious, But unless your username was taken, this place at least let you choice the password you want.

If the Webelo two DL is willing to combine for say a month, and use the time to help the new DL learn how to organize, plan & execute.. Maybe.. Then break away again.. They are doing different things, and to combine them would be a temporary patch. Your Webeloes 2 will cross over and the Webeloes 1 den will still have another year to go. Better to figure out a way to train up the new WDL...

I'm glad I am not the only one that looked at TLT and walked away eyes-crossed.. I just couldn't get into job description, nor see the scouts getting into it, they way they do the hands on JLT.. But.. being on the District training team, for the good of the team.. I proposed that the Scouting Universty we have coming up in March, offer not "DOING" the TLT, but a course on training units on how to organize and "DO" their own TLT.. This met with a positive reaction from others organizing Scouting U.. So SM and the SPL of units will need both come to SU to take this course.. But listening to you guys, I think we will have some turn out for it.. ALSO -- TLT does have a new edition.. I have a copy of it in zerox print, because the book has yet to be published. I have the job of finding a unit in my district that will do the TLT, while I am a spectator.. Not having much luck in finding a unit that did the current TLT.. I guess I could try to find a unit that has never done TLT at all, but that would be a harder sell because of the work to learn the material.. Easier to find one that does it and offer them first crack at a New, (hopefully) Improved version...

Don't get me wrong as posted previously, I am planning on rolling it out and I excited about it.. But in defense of the other District Training Chairs.. UNIT SERVICE , can only be within reason of the staff you have for training.. #1 they are all volunteers also, not paid staff.. #2. many of us are running on a skeleton crew for a training staff.. Therefore, like those parents that expect they are entitled to professional service as if the unit was run by paid staff, those in the unit can not do the same.. Expect one on one speciallized service from their district, when they don't lift a finger to help be part of the volunteer district staff. Now if the district staff, is putting up road blocks as to who can join their ranks, maybe they get what they deserve and you can ask them for the speciallized services, since they don't seem to want any extra volunteer help.

Although I am happy the scout still qualifies for the eagle project being completed. What is a shame is they were irreplaceable. We had a scout in the area, about a day away from completion of a project, vandels came in and destroyed the whole thing.. Well you would not believe the amount of volunteers that came out from other troops and the community to rebuild what was destroyed.. The scout was able to complete his project due to the outpouring of community spirit to right a wrong.. I am sure what the scout learned from that project due to the vandelism was twice more then if the project had gone as planned.. But yes, the poor scout was devestated also, until the calls of volunteer support started pouring in. They finally had to turn some of it away. The same could have happened here had the project not been considered completed, Unfortunatly that rare wood would not have been replaced, and all they could have done was replace the benches with modern day style benches.

Nope.. Tonight at RT I am laying out the IOLS training, actually I mentioned it to a few "expierience" participants at the last IOLS, who would have liked to have known, but weren't too upset. I also mentioned it to one or two other people and it is already being whispered around and spreading like wildfire.. Last RT I had people who were not someone I mentioned it to offer their Troop meeting site for the place to do the test-out course. So tonight I may introduce a few people who did not catch the whisperings.. And then lay out the rest of the plans, that I would like to have alot of new volunteers to be on staff to make this successful, and if they want this to become reality they need to either volunteer themselves or talk some people in their units.. Also that I want to make the other trainings more accessable and available for them to get the required training available. That I am hopeing to create more localized "Training Pods" made up of about 3 units each that all have some of their volunteers become part of the district training staff.. I don't want them training only within their units, training can not happen in a vacuum.. You don't learn of changes to rules, you can perpetuate mis-information for years, You can never get new ideas that are simpler or better then what you are currently doing if you train in a vacumm.. At the same time, I want to make this training more easier to come by. And give these people a feeling of some self-control over their training.. The 1 to 2 trainings a year using my current 7 district trainers who more then half wish to jump ship due to being at it too long, just will not continue to work for long.

With test out of IOLS, I may not get as many in a normal IOLS course, but I will still get some. The ones I get will be the ones needing the training and the test out will weed out those who do not. Just two weeks ago I had cub leaders who want to take the spring IOLS, I talked about that and mentioned the test out if they were able to.. They laughed nervously at the idea.. the test out will not eliminate those who need the IOLS, it probably will just eliminate those who never took it, would not take it now except it is now required, and resent being at the training.. I think moving them through the training in another fashion is doing the IOLS training and your trainers a service.. You don't have cranky negativity from these people at your course. I too though fear bringing up this new training and the reaction of those who just went through our Fall training and could have tested out. I think I will get some anger from them for not mentioning the option sooner. But, over all this is a positive thing. As for the one-on-one test out, if you think you have control enough to say "NO" to even offering the test-out option. Why don't you think you don't have the control enough to say "Yes" to it but on terms that are workable for our district.. Such as not doing it one-on-one, but instead doing it on an organized training day for most people. With allowance for rare occasions for people who just can not make a weekend training date. Also learn to work with your volunteers in your district and offer them what will be most accomidating for them, within the bounds of what your staff can provide enough to loose the "us" vs "them mentality that is between unit & district/ council.. The more you work with them to help them get though the training rather then mandate to them they need training.. I believe the more offers you will get from people from the units to step up and be trainers. I love these district or council rules that trainers must be from Woodbadge, or trainers must be EDGE trained.. You need EDGE training to be on Woodbadge staff or to be a Pack Trainer. EDGE is recommended in our Council for trainers..These type of ridgid rules continue that "us" vs "them" mentality.. There is no rule from National for trainers. I just am looking for well rounded knowledgable people with a positive attitude and can do a well organized presentation on a specific topic.. I see many many many canidates in my district who will make fine trainers, and I will take everyone that I can get... the more the merrier..

PS. The opt-out will not take a weekend or 2 (who does 2 weekends?? or do you do a Saturday one weekend then a Saturday another & call that 2).. I have not timed it but rough guesstimate will be 3 - 4 hours.. They don't have to camp overnight just pitch the tent after doing a site selection.

I am planning to use the enthusiasm for this new way to train to get new people to be able to do this test out along with other types of training.. The UC idea is fantastic and may just fall in line with my plans.. Guys!! Just think of it this way.. This is the same skills needed in for troops to get their scouts from tenderfoot to First class.. This isn't rocket science.. This isn't your HA training.. So I would hope I can find people in each and every troop who can test people out. What I don't want is for a unit to test themselves out.. Yes I should trust, but this is the reason for it. I just want units to learn from each other.. I want the stronger troops to have opportunities to help the weaker troops grow. You don't get this if you train internally. So I want to train alot of people, and I am hoping to get ALOT of other people on training staff for the other trainings the more people on staff, the more I can offer these trainings on a smaller scale, (may two or three troops comeing together, because I don't want the troop doing self training, as already stated) The easier for me, the easier for them. The key will be getting the Adult Leaders of the units in my district to see this and jump on board with this idea. I guess I don't see the opt-out of IOLS as being more work, but as being less work.. Much easier to run 30 through test-out option, then to teach 6 -12 in the two+ day training.. This will assure that the people I get for the longer training are people who "NEED" the training, and hopefully they will appreciate me slowing down the course so that they can "LEARN".. Because our district has taken this 1 night & 2 day course down to a 1 day course, the brought it back to 1 1/2 days.. But I want to go back to running it the way it should be run, which means having those in the course that "WANT" the training and appreciate that we do not fly through it to fast for them to grasp. AGAIN.. we will see, the whole key will be having the Adult leaders jump on to this idea and volunteer to be on the a training staff that they will allow them to self-organize the training locally with 2 - 3 troops in there area, and pool out of those units and a cross-population of people who can be on their staff..

I can't see how a Council can not allow the test-out, when National is saying this is a way to do the course.. Although I guess others can argue that I shouldn't say "no" to one-on-one approach to it, when that is also stated as a way to run it and I simply wont due to not having the man-power, and fearing the loss of what is left of my trainers if I did offer it. To point, I did not know about the option because my council never offered it. I started figuring out what it was after reading these forums. I could see other Councils not being aware of it. Have you handed them a print out of the Training updates of October, where it states it is an option, and asked them about it? Or simply because it is not offered, assume they know about it, and are not doing it.. http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx

But do Den Chiefs need to be a registered position in the Pack?.. If not it is hard to track if they are trained or not. I think that may be why the Pack trainer is the only committee position outside of CC that is registered as a different position other then just Committee member. They wanted to enforce different training for them. Without the position being registered, the boy is just a youth member in a boyscout troop. Maybe they now do register them. It is about 5 -7 years ago my son was a den chief.

The comment was not made to rehash an old topic.. It has been discussed.. It is just to make a comment about the differences of one countries scouting program from another.. I will make another differental comment.. "Love those English accents!!".. We can debate that too..

As a District training Chair, right now my trainer pool is very very sad.. I just took it on recently and there was no one doing the position for 2 years, so they burnt out the few that did help out. I did host a IOLS and had many people offer to help with the next IOLS, both inside & out of my council. I am hoping this will hold true for other things, and I'm going to put it to the test at our Round table this Monday. My plan is that first I will be offering the test out of IOLS, this has been very well received by my district. I am unsure if anyone in my council has offered it yet. But, there will be a catch.. I will be looking for entirely new people to staff these "test-out-of" training not my current burnt out crew.. I am hoping the excitement of the training and the excitement of getting alot of their leaders trained through this will have those who are trained already step forth to be a trainer and ensure that the course is a go.. I am also going to offer the BALOO training in our District, which is offered in other Districts, but if it has ever been before in ours, it has been long enough no one remembers. I am hoping the CubScouts also will be happy about the offering enough to have people step up to be BALOO trainers.. I have also been given the "go" to bring 18 - 20 year olds onto the district training staff. I think they can work IOLS, BALOO, and I am thinking of taking a pair of young adult & "more seasoned" Adult with the Specifics training to give the participants an idea from both points of view. They young adults coming recently from being a youth member I think will have good insight, especially with advice of how to get the unit to work on keeping the intrest after the age of 14.. I wish I could do similar for the Cub scout specifics, but.. Those scouts are too young, and the 18-20 years olds will remember little of cub scouts.. So I hope that I can find some promising trainers from the BALOO training pool, and talk them into taking a part with the CS specifics.. Last time we held CS specifics I only had 2 trainers doing everything including all the breakouts. I unfortunatly have been too far removed from CS to be of much help, but I trained to take the Pack Trainer breakout, only no one showed up for that one. I am also going back to CS for a year to work on learning a little of the whole opperation by following certain positions for about a month. Then I will be able to be of help myself. Never having been a SM or ASM, I don't feel comfortable to teach that one.. Maybe someday the paperwork part of it may be ok for me to do. Anyway those are my plans for getting a better group of trainers.. Will it work? I don't know, I can only hope.. We can't go on for long with 4 burnt out trainers & 2 trainers that are getting burnt out.. On another note, I am looking for different places to train. I can't keep on using the same school, and burdening the same teacher to get me in for much longer. The Specifics course needs some breakout rooms. But some people have units at churches that have sunday school rooms, some with adult size chairs & tables. The IOLS needs a place you can camp overnight, but all these units may have different places, like areas that their town offer their town members, but if we have some people from the unit in that town on our staff, we could use the place. But the BALOO & Den Leader and other trainings can use a room much like each unit uses for a troop meeting, or Pack meeting.. Then there is the problem of projectors.. I "thought" our council had a good pool of projectors for us to borrow. Come to find out they only have two. My specifics will diffinatly use two, and could use three.. So with more trainings that means fighting other districts to borrow those two projectors.. That's a problem.. I am keeping my fingers crossed, my husband found a buisness with alot of projectors they don't need, but they don't know the condition of them.. We are waiting for them to test them out.. and if the bulb (which is the most expensive part) is not blown, and the price is free or small, my husband will pick up 2 or 3 for me. Anyway those are my plans..

That is typical for our council for district training in the Fall then again in the Spring There is training offered for Adult leaders while they are at summer camp programs.. Maybe different for the South, but in the north, for IOLS it is basic camping so it's not done in the snow & ice, BALOO the cubs can't camp in the winter, so we don't train the Adults in winter either, as some of the stuff is outdoors.. but that doesn't explain the down time for indoor trainings.. But it does happen. Out council is holding an EDGE training in January.. I know way back when I was going to go to a Troop Commitee training that was canceled due to a snowstorm. So on rare occasions, there is a training or two in the winter time, but rarely. I think the summer is just down time because trainers will not commit their time to it at district level, and training is offered at summer camp, which even if you aren't going to camp, you can find out when it's offered and go to the camp to take it.

Both videos are terrific.. Loved seeing the girls involved in scouting. Well we can continue to dream someday......

Is that new? My son & husband went to FL sea base about 1 1/2 years ago, and there was no required extra training other the YPT had to be only 1 year or less ago, rather then 2 years or less to cover the Tour permit for 500 miles or more.. I did see the link describing Wilderness First Aid, but I looked at the G2SS, I found the piece about WFA being recommended in the trek safely area. Nothing about it being required for National HA places, but this could be something stated now when you sign up for these places.. I don't think I will worry about it from a "district Trainer perspective", the link describing WFA states to get the training at the american Red Cross, or Emergency Care and Safty institute.. Not "at a district training event".. If the Council ever did want to offer it I can see it being a training offered at council level, not at district level. Will be a hardship for the units that want to participate in National HA, and maybe in the future other personal HA activities.. But as you said, at least the wont have the complaint of having to do Basic training that they are light-years ahead of.. Just the time element of it.

I seem to remember something similar ages ago when my son was a cubbie.. Don't know if the push to give the badge out right when it is earned was around at the time or not.. Actually troops are now to award the Badge ASAP too, and not hold onto it until the COH. Maybe others in the Pack may have other ideas, this is more a "What we do at troop level between COH's" kind of answer that may work at a pack level.. At the troop we hand them their badge at the next troop meeting with a small announcement. Then at the COH, we bring them & their parent up and hand out the card and the parent pin and announce it in a more formal setting. Let the den leader hand the badge to the boy in the den meeting. Then the pack can bring them up for a formal announcement at the next "normal" Pack meeting. So if you are doing a Pack meeting that you are not doing belt loops & activity pins (Pinewood Derby, xmas party), skip over these also (all those belt loops / activity pins aren't being passed out either).. But if your Pack is handing out the belt loops & activity pins during the pack meeting, honor those that earned their rank since the last time you did a meeting with awards.. Yes makes it not as special for the boy, because he has been wearing the badge for the last month or so.. But, this is how troops now do it in order to award the badge ASAP..

JMHawkins can you spread the rumor some more? What is the Wilderness FA requirements? That rumor hasnt filtered over to New Hampshire yet.. jblake47 No refresher course, but the test out option would be good for you. Another thing I would offer a seasoned Adult leader is to be a trainer on staff rather than a participant. Or to take on the position of a troop Guide and help all the newbies. Just let the Training Chair know, unless they are dunder-heads they should be able to pull you out of participant, put you to use, and not totally waste your weekend. Rockford8070 notation to the test out option can be found in two places, each one states I can test out volunteers.. But each has that beuacratic rhetoric of issuing how we are suppose to do it that neither will work (at least for me in my trench).. In the on-line October training guide the following statement is made.. Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills As a restated reminder, if you feel you have all the skills required in Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills it may not be necessary to take the course. Anyone who feels they can demonstrate all of the skills for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class should contact their District Training Chair and schedule a one-on-one session with a member of the training team. This statement also applies to Venturing Youth (over 18 years of age) who are able to demonstrate outdoor leader skills to an IOLS Certified Course Instructor. (can anyone explain the Venturing Youth over 18 comment?? Why do they need training they are not even considered adult leaders til 21??) Then in the SM/ASM specifics Syllabus. You have.. Adult leaders who already know some of the skills may pass that section of the course by demonstrating their abilities to an instructor. Then in the IOLS syllabus, they have something that you can do a self evaluation to see if you think you are qualified to test out and a checklist of what the instructor should check off when you demonstrated the ability to their satisfaction. Problem is nowhere in the IOLS syllabus do they tell you what the evaluation or checklist is there for. But.. as stated before, I do not have the staff to individually test people out, so I am organizing the test out but in group sessions.. Luckily my volunteers are just excited I am offering it and not questioning my not doing it one-on-one at their whim.. Also.. what good does it do for you to test out of a portion of IOLS?? You still need to go to the full IOLS course to finish what you didnt.. Even if it is one thing, I cant promise you it will be a 2pm.. Things move fast, things move slow, Instructors dont show at their designated times and things get pushed out of sync in the schedule to keep the course going until the Instructor shows up.. If it is more then one thing you didnt test out of it does you no good to come at 9am, 2pm, 5:30 pm.. when you live 40 miles from the training site. The elite making statements those of us in the trenches cannot possibly think to carry out.. Unless you have a district training staff of 30 or more people.

I can see both points of view here.. The "required" does make the training now go down like a lump of castoroil.. And we did have some folks in my last IOLS class that could have taught the class. (at least tested out) But not all units are "successful" and usually the "successful" one are big into getting their leaders trained.. I am not talking right now about successful as in if you should run a very difficult program that no one can get to tenderfoot in 3 years or an easy pass the merit badges out like candy.. (although that might be pare of why they aren't successful.) But if they ran their troops/packs this way and had boys begging to get into their troops, or even 20 solid scouts and a decent number of adults. But normally those that lack training have the skeleton adult leadership, and the 5 scouts.. That some might be on paper just to stay a troop.. This is not successful, yet these are the people who do not take training. And as a district Training Chair, the go out and follow them around only goes so far.. A troop asks for you for a Saturday BALOO training they have 12 who want training. You get there and only 2 show up. You only have 6 or 7 trainers on district staff, 4 are burnt out 2 are getting burnt out and you want me to give them a pep talk on going out every weekend to train troop A and Pack B, it is only 80 miles round trip.. The next weekend you can do troop C and Pack D... If you think that taking a weekend to go to training for the volunteer unit adult leaders is hard.. What about the VOLUNTEER District staff..? They can't get burnt out.. They don't have a personal life? Normally some of these people are still also serving their own unit, as a SM or ASM, so the training is above and beyond the time they are putting into their unit. Soon my 4 burnt out District Trainers don't answer the phone and my 2 tired trainers are burnt out, but grudgingly coming out to be a trainer.. And Gee I just can't cox anyone else into volunteering to do this job. If a unit can guarentee me good numbers, I will go to the unit.. But if not, they need to find the time to come to us. Also we have put our IOLS on District Camporees so we are there when they are camping.. Some will come (if their unit has enough coverage.) Some will not, because they have to provide leadership for their unit. I am offering 2 test out of IOLS this Spring.. One on a Saturday, and one for a few weeknights. Even testing out can not be done in 2 1/2 hours 7:00 - 9:30.. But this is to offer it to people who work weekends.. To do so next spring I will not offer the normal IOLS, I am sending those who can not test out to different districts. I will do a Specifics training & a BALOO training.. That is about it.. Until I can get people to volunteer for my training staff, my this is enough for my burnt out staff. I thought I was bad. I went to a BALOO training last weekend offered in a different district. There was suppose to be 4 trainers to teach it (a 4 part round robin).. It was the training Chair and 1 person she just plucked from the participants.. I felt bad for him, no time to train, he was literally reading the information and trying to decipher it an interpret it as he went. As a District trainer you can try to accomadate, but only so far.. You can't jump when they snap their finger and ask you to be here or there on their chosen dates, at their chosen locations to train 1 or 2 people. That is just ridiculous to ask of the VOLUNTEER district Training staff.

thrify asked.. Scouting is meant to instill values, using scoutcraft as a means to that end. What about the Scout who doesn't like to camp? Is there a place for him in today's Scouting? answer: more No then Yes.. Maybe if he found a troop that wasn't really doing the boy scout thing, and didn't camp much.. Or If he doesn't want to do any camping but finds a troop where they have troop meetings that work on some of the skills like first aide or knots & lashings and got enjoyment from those meetings.. But your either in a poor troop, or missing the most fun parts of being in the troop.. I can even do better. Have them join Venturing.. It is scouting, and the group can be into something other then camping, rock climbing, water sports, ballroom dancing.. They are in scouting with no need to camp. I don't think it's a bad thing though. Ask a sports coach and they think they teach values through commitmint,dedication, hardwork & teamwork.. Ask a football coach if there was a place on the team for someone who doesn't like football.. Yeah.. waterboy... Those who organize Bands think they teach values also through commitmint,dedication, hardwork & teamwork.. Ask them if there is a place in the band for someone who is tone deaf or hates music.. (Umm not sure if there is..).. But is this wrong? Other groups teach kids values through a specialize common interest or goal, that everyone in the group is in tune with.. Why does Scouting have to change in order to be the "everything for everybody" group?? Then no one has a common interest or goal, and we will loose it. Let those who don't like camping find something they do like.. chances our 9 out of 10 times someone has started a fine group for the youth to participate and learn in that environment, and there will be something about it that teaches values to the youth while working toward that goal. We don't have to be everything to everyone when there are so many many worthy youth organizations for them to join. Scouts has to be true to those who joined it for a common interest of camping and other outdoor adventures and keep that focus, so as not to let down the kids who come to us for a specific reason. Show me a football team that will come out on the field dressed in tutu's and will dance swan lake across the field, and all those that watch them take them to be serious football players.. Or even has one player in a tutu, while the rest are the normal muscle men, and the guy in the tutu gets equal field time due to him being a serious player.. (although if you watch the TV show "Glee" they did have their gay student on the football team for a few episodes.. but that was comedy and even he didn't wear the tutu, though he did get his whole team to dance pretty silly like on the field.)

Gottarun - This has been talked about before.. If you don't care about another Knot for being a Webelos leader on your uniform take IOLS. Difference of the 2 is totem chit vs whittling chit & animal/plant ID vs 3 Webelos activity pins for outdoor guidence.. IOLS will be required when you transition to a troop if become an SM/ASM OWL is just recommended. As for there being a difference, there is a big difference between the two.. Common is campfire program, site selection.. First aid is touched on quickly more for how to build a medicine Kit.. IOLS/OWL does actually First aid training.. Then IOLS does wood Tools like hatchet, axe etc.. much more cooking then an aluminum foil lunch.. Orienteering.. Backpacking.. Knots & lashings.. etc.. much more hands on/ less classroom.. IOLS doesn't get into paperwork.