moosetracker

Those who have done council rechartering since YPT.. How did that go in your councils... Yeah, not so good here. The Recharter is produced by BSA.org so the paperwork stating the missing YPT is by their on-line records. Many missing due to membership ID not put in or not put in right. So the paperwork was printed so our registrar could enter it. All well and good except 75% show the membership ID correctly on the printed certificate, so what is the mis-connect at BSA.org.. Then there are those that BSA has correctly entered, but on-line didn't know about because people take in in-person still, not on-line and they never set up an account so the council entry to connect to the on-line for the person. So council doesn't need to enter, but on-line will never know about them. Then there are the ones that on-line knew about told unit they were ok, so no paperwork needed, but council doesn't have that entry so they are still missing the YPT on the council records.. Recharter was alway a nightmare for councils, YPT and our wonderful software made it extra special for them this year..

drmbear - Now you gone and done it.. Bubble wrap is no longer good enough. The overprotective parent now needs to go to a straight jacket for their child 24 hours a day in order to protect them from themselves.... On second thought.... Hey! This might be a marketing ploy.. Any one want to go into buisness with me selling straight jackets in different colors other then dreary white? We should make a bundle. NOldFatGuy - I think our son's old HS is now doing this.. HS students no longer get the bus because they should have their own cars.. Problem is they don't allow students to drive their cars to school until Junior/Senior year due to not having enough parking. Now forget the Junior/Senior who can't afford to buy a car yet (yeah I know I'm old fashioned & make them pay for it, parents now just buy them the car).. But it does leave a gap of those who are freshman/Sophmore.. No bus, No car... and sometimes walking isn't fesable. Hmmm... I guess making them hitchhike is not cool, even I am not that open minded to letting them experience life in this relm. But if they can walk - have them walk, if they can bike - have them bike, if you know and trust your neighbors set up a carpool. If this had occured while our son was in school, it still would have been driving him within a safe walking distance and having him walk the rest of the way. But it would have been a problem.. I could have gotten him to school (with a small wait for school start), but my work hours would not allow me or my husband to pick him up (who works from 8:00 to 2:00??) He would have had a long wait at school for a pickup if I could not have worked something out with others in the neighborhood.

The history may be of slight concern when the Bear den migrates to Webelos, if the other person will then be the Webelos II den leader, but really if the WebI still don't want to organize with the WebII.. That is fine.. They just stand alone and the WebII will migrate to troop in half a year anyway.. You just can't force friendships by forcing people to work together. If they can't work together respect the issue. It would be different if it was DL & ADL and the whole den was being torn apart by the battle. These two dens really can do fine on their own. So find ways the pack runs smoothly by allowing the seperation.. As long as each DL is working with his den well, they are doing their job. You should be happy and let sleeping dogs lie. I agree, if I were the DL doing a group thing with another den would seem fun and less work on me.. But doing something as a DL and including the whole den would be the exact opposite, it would have me frazzled trying to figure out if I have enough materials, communicated to everyone, have enough activities.. By the way if you plan an event that included the Wolf / Bear & Webelos.. Why would you then not be concerned about the exclusion of the Tigers? They would be the only ones left out and are kind of the newbies trying to find their place in the world.. A grouping a wolf & Bear wouldn't concern me.. A grouping excluding only the tigers would that is a pack event that is excluding specifically only one group. The group you should be bending over backward to involve so they learn the ropes.

Congradulations, to the "not so" little Beaver on both accounts..

We can hope. We can dream.. The way I see it is he has a 50/50 shot, either things stay the same or improve.. He can't make things worse, that's an impossibility unless he choose to do away with all computers and go back to paper & pencil. ... On second thought that might even be an improvement.

As stated before if there is a known predator, then be vigilant until the danger is taken care of, not for the rest of the kids life. Scoutfish your story of the idiot neighbor would give me pause for a few months, like you are a little jittery driving after being in a car crash for a month or so, then all falls back into normal routine.. Mainly it would be more teaching my child to know better and not accept a ride if no seatbelt.. Reminds me of the day we read the front pamphlet of the scout book with our son on child abuse, or something from the scout program.. Anyway it had us address not going off with strangers or getting in their car.. That very afternoon, not more the 3 or 4 hours later, he drives up our driveway with a stranger. Our son gets out of the car, we didnt even get to say boo to the driver. We ask our son who he was. He drove up while they were playing, introduced himself as one of the kids uncles, though the boy he was the uncle to had never met him before, and they drove off with him So back to the pamphlet and a lot more drilling into our son about safety.. Next week, I mistakenly sent him to the bus stop a week before school was actually starting back from summer break.. Someone in the neighborhood saw him, and call the police to check it out.. So up comes the police, asks some questions.. Told him school bus wouldnt come today. Asks him to get into the police car, he will take him home.. My son stated that he would not get into the car because he was a stranger.. So my son walked home, the police car followed him. Policeman saw no one was home, so he wanted to call us.. Son would not let him into the house. He was handed the phone outside, so he could talk to us there. My son was a good laugh at the school when the policemen told them the story. My son learned though. I did not need to lock him in the house forever more for fear he would jump into other cars with strangers. Scoutfish dont use idiot neighbor as an excuse why you son can never ride with your trusted friends, other people in the Scouting program to an event, or with your relatives until he turns 21. Likewise with waiting for the bus with your child until the bus arrives due to other drivers . Yes there are idiots out there. Teach your children to not play in the busy roads, and to look both ways before crossing the street.. Then let them live their lives.. Yes there are dangers to living life.. Teach your children to evaluate and reduce the risk by thinking things through, then let your child live. I have heard stories of cars crashing through store fronts, into houses, and off cliffs onto the roofs of houses below. These days your child is no safer in the house from drivers then in the front yard, or they can sit in your car, and your car get hit, or you can stand on the corner with them, and they can hit you both. Freak accidents happen, there is always some danger, but unfortunately your children are no safer stuck in bubble wrap, as they would be without it.. It is just that at 21 when you take off the bubble wrap, they will not know how to take care of themselves.

Awwww... Shortridge... give the camp director a break, remember he is driving out at 4am in the morning, hasn't got out of his pj's or slippers, and hasn't had his morning cup of coffee..

That is a shame that the Unit Commissioner couldn't give you more backup. Or the Adults did not listen to him. He had the right idea, but few UC can lead from the front, most of them have to guide from the back.. How long is your friends time before re-elections, does he have 6 months or a year? It is sad but I think your leaving may be the only thing that wakes them up. Once they loose all the scouts that do the work, and are left with those who want someone to do everything for them, and do not really want to learn skills for themselves, either they will be in their glory because now they can hand feed and burp these growing babies, or they will be asking themselves what went wrong, and maybe finnally come to the answer, a little late. Do yourselves a favor and go out troop shopping. Don't just jump. Find a troop in the area that have the program you are looking for. Visiting and getting excited about the move will also lift your friends spirit with antisipation for the future, which will carry him though the remainder of his time in the position..

OGE, we had a scout 2 scouts like that. One supposably had no disabling conditions. But at 12 the uncle (who was also in the troop) took the boy for a week and was shocked at how much this boy expected him to do, from tieing shoes, to turning on shower, to helping him dress.. Because Mom did it.. The divorced mother (who was the sister-in-law) was trying to create a "mamma's boy".. She did find a guy she adventually married, this guy was helping to straighten ot the situation. Another single mom had a boy with some slight disabilities, but the mother was again creating the dependency.. the troop leaders would ask the mother not stay at the meetings. If he even wanted to try, the mother was there telling him he was unable to do anything, he was not smart enough whatever to pull the slightest bit of confidence the leaders were trying to instill in him.. He normally sat as a bump on a log, and never engaged, unless you could pull him away from mom.. Even still the 1 1/2 hours were not long enough.. They did better if he went to a weekend event, but still not enough.. One of our trainers was specially trained to work with disabilities, she really started to make great progress. The mother then yanked him from the troop and took him to a different troop. Don't know if that is over protective, or something else. With scouts - How many have scouts who come in and you find out they have never done a single chore at home, and parents don't think they should.. Tell parents that scout should earn their troop dues by at least doing chores around the house.. Parents laugh at you like you have lost your mind. Do they have any skills with setting the table or cleaning the dishes or help with dinner.. Again the parents will laugh at you.. So when they grow up to own their own homes, will mommy come with them to take care of them? Or is it a plan they marry and have a wife that will take care of them as if they lived back before the 1950 era? My son is marrying a girl.. He CAN cook, he was responsible to cook one meal a week back when we gave him an allowance. He has gotten lazy about it lately.. She can bake, but other wise can not cook.. I think between the both of them he is the one with training to clean, wash clothes, cook etc.. But truthfully I fear that they may live on Kraft Mac 'n cheese, in a messy house, unless his past training kicks in once he is out on his own.

Yeah, on the rare occasions I needed to drop kid off due to missing bus.. I would still not go near the entangled mess of cars. I dropped him off within site of the school, but let him walk the rest of the way in, then continued on to work. With the cars waiting for buses, I can see on the coldest day or wet pouring weather.. Still don't you know or trust your neighbors at all?? Why does each parent have to wait in seprate cars with their kids? Especially your neighbors who have kids the same age as your kids. Don't any of them play at each other's houses? Isn't there anyone in the neighborhood that your son doesn't have to play "Stranger Danger" with?? Why aren't their 1 or 2 cars? Why are there 5 to 10 cars? And why on the nice days as well as the bad? Maybe if it is a single 5 to 6 year old waiting all alone, the parent might wait with them. But waiting while 10 other kids and their parents are all waiting for the bus on the same corner? and waiting with a child 10 years or up? I can see maybe the fear if there is news of a child abductor in your town that has not yet been caught.. Or if you are in a bad neighborhood with street gangs hanging on the corners.. But, where does this vigilant over protection from the boogie-man come in the average middle class suburbs? Is the real news that terrifying, or is it the fictional TV and movies that have parents living with nightmares of the worst if their child is not in their site at all times? Lisabob that story of the Venturing Crew had me laughing at the image. I am sure the parents were embarrassing their child terribly.. No teenager wants their parent acting all clinging and mothering them in front of other kids.

Oh yes Beavah.. Your child is far too precious to walk. In sync with the school buses.. I go to work and the kids are waiting for the school bus, in each of their parents heated cars.. They can't even trade off and have just one parent be the heated vehical so poor children wont catch cold.. I took some scouts to a town meeting for some citizenship. Some parent was asking that the school bus stop at their home because little johnny couldn't walk the 2 houses up to the official bus stop.. (I was happy to see them denied.). Also, if you are behind a bus don't be surprised to wait a while for the kids that don't have a heated car. They will stay in their house and come out only when they see the bus, then the bus has to wait for them to walk up the road to them. I remember walking (yes walking) to school (dresses for girls still in fashion). with snow so high we walked on the snow piles the plows made, and would look down on the roofs of the cars that passed by, you could fall into a sinkhole that would swallow you leg and steal your boot. Then our legs would freeze standing for school doors to open and at recess.. The pants were a good thing.. But, I could not believe it when our school required my son to have all this paraphania to go out for recess.. Including snow pants.. Snow pants, required for 20 minute recess?? At least he has jeans on, I had a dress, and there was no consideration for us when I grew up. PS. The indoor playgrounds are that of the rich in our little state of NH, those with houses around the ocean.. Dan Brown author of the "Da Vinci Code" is one of those on his route, to give you an idea of his clientele.. Just built a gorgous new house, but I don't know if he is one with a playground or if he even has kids.

Because I have been following your past threads, Platypus I know your intentions are good, but as Eagledat states you have had past issues with your SM, that you are trying to redefine your attitude to be more positive.. Still a little there with the "trying to prove".. How are things going otherwise with your attempts to improve your troop to be more Boy Lead. Makeing any headway at all, or are you just pulling those scouts that are salvagable and letting the rest of the sinking ship sink? The makeup of the Patrols are really self-defined troop to troop.. In a boy led troop, the boys get to define the makeup.. In an adult lead troop, the adults may define the makeup (hopefully after at least listening and taking the boys viewpoints into account.) Since your troop is very adult lead, I would imagine the makeup of the patrols was defined by the Adults, maybe with little input from the boys who were members at the time. Because it is self-defined, no reason why it can not be changed when there is good reason to do so.. Like others state, the arguement for the change from your end should be one where you see this as a positive affect on the troop as a whole, and not one that is self serving for a few (such as salvaging the good ones and letting the rest sink..).. Maybe one arguement can be to train the few that are willing to learn scouting the right way, so that you can then move the ideas out to the others by example, or new incoming scouts (the more scouts you have doing scouting the right way, the more influence you can have leading by example.) Also that you are getting older and aging out. If you can teach younger scouts the correct scouting methods, then after you leave they can carry on the torch..

In my opinion the big thing that would be a wet blanket on the unsupervised patrol is getting the CO (COR) and the parents of the scouts to buy into the idea and give permission, even if the SM was sold on the idea. In this day and age it would be a tough sell to get all agreeable to it (most parents now adays fear the imaginary maniac in the woods..) My husbands job takes him to neighborhoods where they have built indoor playgrounds so their kids never have to leave the house for fear of infected mosquitoes, ticks, birds, bees "you name it". The best a SM who would like to "someday" be able to do it, can do is to make sure they are working toward the goal of their patrols being self-suffient so that they can hope to sway the CO/parents into believing in the capability of the scouts ability.. At least if the SM is working toward this goal, the scouts will still win, and have a troop truely run by the boys. Even if they never get the nervous over protective COR/parents to consent.. But, seriously I see few troops getting the thumbs up from all the people you need to sway to be able to allow the patrol to go off on their own without adult leadership. Those that do get the approval are rare and far between..

Seems like in 2nd class you need to cook one meal only, and then in First class serve as cook for Breakfast/luch/dinner.. So your patrols need to vary if they are dividing the cooking assignments per meal, for second class, or giving the full event of cooking to one member for first class signoff.. Then if none of the requirements are needed by any member they can choose to divide the work any way they like.. Either way, no reason to give up on the duty roster. The roster can be made out to assign one person as cook and divide the other jobs fairly, and then used to make sure the jobs are rotated fairly for everyone to get a chance at the prefered, and not so preferred jobs fairly. Many troops still use it, and it works well for them. Many don't and just assign jobs ad-hoc as they go.

Well with our BOR, the scout leaves the room, the board discusses then the scout is brought back in for the verdict.. Most times positive. So it is not left to the SM to tell the boy he has been denied. There must be a clear cut reason why he was denied. Since parents & you agree with the decision, I would assume very clear. You may want to discuss with the board some ideas you have that you might want to present as ideas to the scout for him to rectify the situation just to make sure that you both agree if he does a, b, or c, he will pass his next board.. Give him a clear reason why he was denied and clear ideas of how to go about fixing the problem. Don't leave him as the only one left in the dark, and not sure what to do to fix things.

Can't help with ideas for Pack, being out of it so long, I would be better with troop. My ideas will probably be the very basic ones everyone already knows.. But, I applaud your efforts.. Question though.. Why just the pack meeting? Units get in trouble for many other reasons then the Pack meeting.. The one I have is not keeping in touch with your new den leaders, and making sure they are not failing and falling off.. I am trying to go back to the pack to help out & relearn the pack. I went to a pack meeting. And the tiger den I was to start with the Tiger den leader was not there and only 3 of his tigers were there.. They emailed him & me to make a connection.. I added to the email stating that I was planning to help out as well as hopefully learn, and some of the things I could help out with.. It has been over a week and no response.. I am now re-emailing the Pack Trainer & CC to see what they can find out.. Seems like I would have been more helpful if I was able to offer the help a month or 2 ago..

Ha.. Like that will mean much. I work training, and everyone in the traing committee district & council except for me are against the test out of IOLS, so they banned it in our council and will not recognize it as valid training.. Even though National has stated it is valid training. National has also made a new NYLT that is for Venturing & boy scouts.. Those who have run JLT then NYLT for years do not want venturing to "pollute" the training.. So they run the old one and will not acknowledge the new one as valid, and it is still only open to the boy scouts.. Council is backing the people running the program, not what National has stated as being valid.. If any of this is forced on them, I guarentee you will have a difficult test for IOLS, or that any Venture in that course will not get fair treatment.. Now I will also guarentee that with district Advancement EBOR, walk in and argue the issue that you have the right to be in a shirt and tie.. Don't expect a board that night.. Push the issue in council.. Maybe you will win, but most likely not, since our council has bowed to the Training Volunteers although they are wrong to .. I would expect they will also, bow to the Advancement board.. If they don't, come back in your suit & tie and expect a very grilling Eagle board, were no one is in favor of you.. It is called human nature... People who are set with their traditions, will not bow graciously to someone stomping all over them..

Being inland, we don't have any sea scouts in our district. But, I think you should speak up.. I personally never heard of you until someone who went to a ECOH and they had the eagles stand and say when they earned eagle. One of the participants said he was a sea scout. I thought it was a program that was no-more (he was an older gentlemen).. Then I heard of it again as an active program maybe last year.. You are under represented.

...isn't an EBOR setting a requirement for uniform wear adding to rank requirements? I don't think so at all.. For every rank advancement, you are to show scout spirit. Not seeing it important to wear a scout uniform to the EBOR would definately show lack of scout spirit.

Yeah, The Blancmange, I wrote that just before leaving work, I was just thinking window, and remembered an incident where insurance kicked in for a similar problem with a window.. On the way home, I thought about the ownership angle, and that insurance wouldn't pay for something that happened to the owners property.

Before jumping ship.. Think.. How much Pack Equipment and money in the bank does the Pack have? You don't own it, your Charter Org does.. If it is a breakup under bad terms they can choose to keep it. If it is a mutual agreement they don't want you, you don't want them, they could still keep it or release the equipment/money to your new Charter organization.. It will be there call, and not something you can sneak off without telling them. I believe they must sign a release form.. Better to try to work out the problem. Best way is to have a meeting and figure out what the problem really is then just taking rumor at gospel. They might not like you, because they have heard that you do not like them.. We have had people in the past who wanted the unit to move so purposely caused the tension by playing the unit against the CO.. Without communication by those wanting a good relationship, they will get the CO's ear and cause damage. Can the unit do a service project for your CO? Let them know that BSA has insurance, if something is broken, you can put in a claim to BSA. Do you do anything with them for Scout Sunday.. Come in uniform to the church.. We also put on a pancake breakfast that sunday.. We make a slight profit, but it is low cost Bfast for them, and we run looping Videos of our past years events so they know who we are and what we do.. A good relationship between CO & you.. Goes both way.. And may lean more to being the responsibility of the unit to maintain the good relationship.

May get points taken off on your score at camporees without it, depends on what they are looking for and if it is so cold you are too bundled up to tell.. Our council summer camp requires it for the dinning hall.. Our district requires it for your EBOR, shirt & neckerchief definately other items optional (don't know what they will do with the new catalogs comming out making.. Other districts in our council are very picky that it must be FULL uniform, depends on who runs the eagle board.. Now, there is required and there is required.. I don't know what they will do if you don't comply.. You paid for your meal, so I don't think they can deny you your dinner at summer camp.. I have heard that the FULL uniform EBOR people have been put to the test, and have refused an EBOR, don't know if our district has ever been challenged for the shirt & neckerchief.. They know they would have to accept a Venturing uniform of "whatever", but there has never been a Venturing Eagle in our district or any other in oue council as it was a subject of question & debate at the Council wide program meeting for them about 4 months back.. Someone had to write to Texas for the answer, the subject had never needed to be addressed.. But it was just something to debate on a quiet evening, still no Venturing Eagle..

Our troop has had similar policies.. Although with cell phones.. In fact no electronical devices.. We had scoutmasters confiscate cell phones that rang, or the scout was using during a troop meeting or event.. They got them back after the meeting or event, sometimes had to earn them back by doing the room cleanup or something.. We also have things like no soda on a camping event. BSA policies are general.. The units must follow them. Then the COR, units and/or boys themselves can make policy as to other things that more directly effect the unit. In a boy run troop, most of these policies may be made by the PLC.. Policies like parents not being the meritbadge counselor for their own sons, Dues must paid in full before an event in order to go on the event, Scouts must sell $xxx amount of popcorn or pay $xxx additional for the program.. On and on... Units are allowed to make their own policies.. Who makes the policy is also agreed upon by the units agreement with some discussion between COR, Committee, and Scoutmaster.. That is again some policy they units have either conciously decided on, or drifted into.. All these policies, are valid for the unit until the policy no longer works for them, then it must be re-evaluated and tweaked or removed.. The BSA policies are general for the very purpose of allowing units to sweat the small stuff themselves and come up with workable policies for themselves.. It is just some of these unit created policies become the belief of those in the unit that they are National policies, and they (and I am guilty of it also), will tell others it is national policies and which will cause incorrect information to get passed around.. If the units themselves forget over time that it is their own policy it makes it harder for them to tweak or remove it when the time comes..

Excellent! I wish you luck. I am surprised you son chose anything with a co-ed Ventureing Crew associated.. But, I am glad his mind (and yours) was open enough to recognize the difference of a well run one from a poorly run one.

Well I guess if it is their own local patch awards, they can make up what-ever rules they want to around it.. I might double check the winter rule with our council also.. I too agree, I don't think I will have many Packs interested in winter camping, but might as well get the rules straight.. I went to BALOO training the last day of Sept. this year, and I know it was mentioned that we were getting the training on the last day we could have taken the scouts out camping this year.. They then told us that we were only allowed to camp with a pack from (march/april) through Sept.. But there was other things we were told that was not quite accurate.. This though I did not question as it made sense.. With the G2SS sounds like discouraged, but not denied.. This though could be a tighter rule for our council..