moosetracker

No, he wasn't undercover. The bikers knew he was the state trooper assigned to them. Took years, but overall he was respected by them. In fact just recently there was a shakeup and he is no longer assigned to them. Obviously over time, the bikers must have got his information because he told us the leader of one of the gangs did call him and ask who the idiot was that replaced him. He was our SM for a few years, and a wonderful SM at that..

Even without confessing to the troop his guilt or insisting he is innocent. I would console the young man to put into practice now the "living the scout oath & law" with detail to being in high gear about showing it.. Consider it similar to someone sitting in jail before their trial. If they are found innocent.. "Oh well".. If they are found guilty, they the time they spent in jail is considered part of the sentence already served.. Showing he is an Eagle scout by living the scout oath & law now, will not hurt him any, even if he is found innocent.. Much better then rotting in a prison cell for 6 months then being found innocent, by then you may have lost your job and housing and other things.. Not saying he is choosing between the two, because he isn't.. Just comparing the two..

In our council the MB is not published on the web or what-not, but is emailed to one or two people in a troop.. Names & contact info may be sensitive.. Such as we had a MB counciler who was a state trooper working with the bike gangs in our state.. Also we prefer the boys going to the SM or Advancment coordinator for the info, rather then having mom or dad look up the list on the internet and organizing it for the boy (although alot of MBC will tell parents they will be happy to talk to their son when he calls them himself).. I can tell you as an MBC.. If you want calls, go for at least one or two MB that are required, then choose one or two that you enjoy. You will get the calls for the required MB's, and may over 10 years get some nibbles on the ones that are electives.. The ones most people in the troop can do, such as camping, maybe not, I think your citizen ones would get you some nibbles.. Is your Pack associated with a troop? Even if you are not sure that will be the troop your son is going to end up in, I would talk with the SM and find out what required MB the troop may be lacking, that you can fill. Then you can anchor as a MBC for that troop, but make sure you do not check off troop only. Most likely although the scouts don't know you personally, they will still choose you because you are associated with their troop.. My husband gets calls for the lifesaving, swimming MB's out of troop all the time. I don't for Family Life and Communications.. But we both get many in troop. then neither of us get much for the elective MB's we signed up for, in troop or out. Just my observations..

From my understanding, it could be as you say, and excursion away from the group, while on a trip that is more distant to get to.. But mostly I have heard of them being jaunts close by, so it might be a bike ride starting at the Troops normal meeting place, or on a nearby bike trail, where the parents drive the boys over, drop them off and return to pick them up later in the day. Many towns have an approved camping area that scouting units or youth organizations are welcomed to use.. Again parents may drive them to this starting point, they then hike or bike in, camp overnight and return the next day. A patrol scheduling a local gym and playing games in it for the evening. Again parents would drive them over.

I know we had a scout which didn't break the law, but things happened that caused the SM to choose not to sign off on his Eagle rank until he showed "Scout Spirit". He chose the time frame of 6 months.. I think this was a great time frame.. For youth that age 6 months is a long time, but they can see a light at the end of the tunnel.. Longer and it might seem like an impossible hurtle. This scout did turn around too. He was the best example a scout could be. Although the decision was argued by the parents all up the chain of the council.. At the end of the 6 months the boy volunterily made a beautiful speech on scout sunday about what a wonderful learning expierience it was for him.

Must be something each council decides on.. Our new registrations mid-year are also prorated, not full amount to pay for the background check (I thought the prorated amounts were listed on the registration form). Strange, thought this was a price set at National.

seems my last post, crossed with other posts, so RichardB is from National.. Again welcome.. And yeah Neilonwheels did a much better explanation. I just gave you the simple, not the detailed answer. Our troop doesn't do the patrol outings, as our COR & parents would not agree to it, but for those troops that get the blessings of the parents, I think it is awsome, and I totally support them having that right. I will be sorry to see that taken away if it is. Scouting is getting more and more adult lead and less and less boy run.. That is sad.

Well TX is a big state, I am sure there are a few Richard's who last name starts with a "B" in TX.. But if you are from National, Welcome! I think alot of guys on this forum have great ideas, so having people from National peek in on us is not so bad a thought. NealOnWheels - Up to now, SPL have been able to file tour permits as the leader of the event if they specify it is a Patrol outing.. My guess is Patrol Activity & Patrol outing is the same thing.. Or maybe National has changed from Patrol Outing to Patrol Activity, in that you can't go off on an outing on your own, but you can have a patrol Activity on the other side of camp while the rest of your troop is doing something else at the same camp.

It has still been allowed that a patrol (not troop, just a single patrol) can go off on their own event with no adult supervision.

So how can the National Health and Safety Team Leader say Leadership requirements for outings have not changed in one breath then say Patrol outings in the sense of literally youth only hiking the Appalachian trail is in process of being removed in the next? So guys remember when your patrols plan their patrol outings, it cannot be for the Appalachian Trail.. All other patrol outings are still OK.. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

I feel for the family going through this unthinkable sorrow.. Unfortunately they had a son at the rank of Life, and they themselves never took the time to understand the program. They unfortunutly saw the SM as a fully trained professional, instead of understanding that the SM is a parent just like themselves who have volunteered to be the leader of a group of boys and one of the leaders of those other parents of the boys in the unit who want to help. That the BSA offers training, but not to the extent of being professiona paramedics due to the balance of how much they can force training and not lose their volunteer pool.. Unfortunately I fear these parents were little more the drop off parents, just by their lack of understanding a program their son has been involved in for (I forget the exact number of years they mentioned, but I think at least 8 years or more.) It doesn't make their tragedy any less sad, it just to me makes it doubly sad they did not understand that their $100 - $200 dollars a year program is not the same as the $2000+ a week program with highly trained professionals. It does though stress why troops should choose their SM wisely, and why they should also push that they take the training offered by BSA.. Although this SM could have been extremely well trained.. It did state they they did CPR on the boy until the paramedics arrived. I don't see total neglect like leaving him there while they continued the hike, with plans to collect him when done, or sitting and doing nothing until the paramedics arrived. It would have been nice for them to call on the family as soon as they returned though.. The lack of contact means either the parents were already screaming they were at fault and they heard through a 3rd party, or they did feel somewhat guilty over something.

Eagle007 - "Slap on the wrist!!!" Oh my! such Child abuse!!! Seriously - I remember talking to someone about when my son was little and misbehaved I might swat him on the butt, I knew that it didn't hurt a bit, due to the thick diaper, and the swat was no more then a tap, but he would burst out into tears anyway because even without pain, it symbolized that Mom was mad and he did something wrong.. Well I was lambasted by others for my abuse to my child!.. I thought I would never hear the end of it. Even if I didn't really hurt him, to let him know he did something wrong rather then telling him everything he did was just fine, and he was just perfect all the time.

Where is part C??

I think I would have remembered & complained if it was not the $1 transfer when my son did it.

Yeah! That too.. My son & husband have tried to lean on the troop, then the SM started whining and the COR told them not to get the SM all in a tissy... So we got a troop that can't plan for beans, but need to do the tour permit..

I read that, but also that the new Tour Planning Worksheet is not needed unless out of council.. Beav & I have had this discussion. I know from him that as long as there are other things showing it is a BSA activity you can prove it is official, even if you don't do the TP or Worksheet.. It doesn't fly with out COR. I suppose since the worksheet doesn't need to be processed except for out of council events, my son can just continue to pass them in the night before an event, and not get any confirmation, but know they are covered anyway, because they are in council. And with the Tour worksheet passed in, the COR will be happy too. Let's just hope it can be sent via email in our council. The only thing now will be trying to get it to council physically with 1 day before the trip (forget the 3 week leeway)..

Thing is our troop is one that can't plan for beans.. Like I said SM does not require any adult leaders or scouts to confirm they are going, until the Thursday troop meeting before the event. He figures it is to hard for them. This means no knowledge of the adults going, the number of scouts going, who will be driving, cost of event (if there is a discount for groups of x amount of people).. Two weeks in advance my son may have where they are going.. Three weeks probably would even give him that information. COR knows there is no planning. Also knows that by the time my son files the TP there is slim to none hope of seeing confirmation for it. She doesn't do it to force them to plan, she does it for fear that the BSA insurance will not cover the event leaving the CO vulnerable.. No amount of telling her that this is not the case will convince her otherwise.

*Sigh* - our COR insist on tour permits for EVERY outing while our council's policy was only events that were outside the city/town of your meeting place.. At the same time our current SM can't organize enough info to be able to get the tour permit sent into council until about 10pm the thursday night before the event leaving on the next day or that Saturday.. So is this new tour permit going to be available to fill out electronically still?. The only way my son got the tour permit to council on Thurs. before the next day outing was to come home from the troop meeting and fill it out before going to bed that night. I doubt he will be able to drive to Council that Friday.. Also he will be grumbling more because if it is not needed for in Council trips, 99.9 % of the trips they take will be in-council.. So all that work will be unnecessary anyway. So does that mean patrol outings are still OK as long as the outing is within the Council's borders?

SP - Because the COR / CC likes the title of being the COR / CC and has no interest in replacing someone else into the CC position. It is not a job he knows he must do but just hasn't gotten around to it, He sees it as his job, one he likes (at least in title) and one he sees no need to get someone else to do.

the way seattle puts it sounds like he is just saying to evict him from CC hand them the papers and ask them to sign it and replace themselves.. Somewhere in there though I see valid points.. I just don't know how you get them to see them.. COR is THE top dog position other then IH who normally you don't have need to communicate with at all. I am just wondering if your COR realizes it. Giving up the CC position does nothing to usurp his/her powers or status as it is a position that report to the COR.. But, to get someone who is set in their ways to wake up and smell the coffee, (in a nice way).. That is what is the question.. To get them to see they are valued as COR as you try to pull the other job away from them, and not make them feel they are being manipulated, or that you are holding a "coup".. That is the tricky thing & if they are to far gone to wake up to coffee, then finding someone to do the job they should be doing under a title of ACM.. That may be the only way to go.. There are troops that do the same thing, they have many many ASM positions and these positions take care of Advancement, inventory, finances etc.. Jobs that should be at the committee level, but are not.. Could be because of an inactive CC they can not motivate (like your situation), or could be because the SM wants control of everything and found a way to head Program & committee.. You just don't know unless you ask the story behind the structure of the unit.

Take it from someone who has been in scouting for 15 years and only found this site, about 8 months ago, it didn't take you long to find this site. You just find it when you have a need for it. Congradts on your new position. I hope we hear from you often.

He might be the CM, and he might be the SM, but he's not the PM (postmaster). There's absolutely nothing stopping you from sending any type of recruiting information you wish directly to the families you want to recruit. If this was my council, the problem I would have with that is that the contact information, address, email, phone# of members of a unit are not given to anyone who asks.. While I understand, and in many ways applaud the council for protecting our information, and not selling it to anyone who asks, it can be frustrating to a neighboring unit who wants to extend and invite. Our troop hosted a pancake breakfast and wanted to invite (not everyone, but units in the area).. I got emailed one or two units with people I knew personally, the rest I could not get the info to invite them. Even the council web site to ask about joining the units, masked the contact info and you could email sort of like the setup on these forums. Same here and more so, because you are looking for not just one unit leader, but for a group of Webloes (individual families) of a unit to mail to..

My understanding of two deep leadership is that "yes" preferably two adults, but not always, if not then it is more like no one-on-one.. Take car trips, normally one adult driver with more then one youth scout. If you have to drive a scout home the Adult leader, his son and the scout that is not his son, will do.. In a troop with merit badges it may be the MBC with one scout and a parent.. or the MBC with two or more scouts.. Therefore in this situation, I would ask that 2 other scouts (or your son) go with you to drive the 1 scout home or to the hospital.. You need 2 others (or your son), because once at the hospital or once delivered to the house, you may be driving back with out the sick scout and need the two scouts there so there still is no one on one (unless your son).. If this arragement means the Adult leader left back at the campsite is with less then two scouts, (if at a camporee or summer camp, you can make arragements with another troop camping nearby).. If not, then everybody takes a ride together.. At least that is how I see it.

Yes there are some positions that allow people to be multi-registered. COR could also be the CC or a CM, depending on if the unit does not have a CC or has a CC but not enough CM's to have the 3 minimum. I believe there are other positions which can be multi-registered, but with a specific list of what else they can be registered as.

It is now short notice, so probably not, but if your Pack had gotten their act together sooner I bet for $50 to $100 bucks, you could have gotten one of the troops to build you one, and they could have benefited from the funds. Yeah postage might be expensive, or you will get parts & pieces that someone still will need to sit down and assemble..