moosetracker

The age / grade without AOL seems wrong.. But the question is did BSA register him as a boyscout with this? Does not really matter, though.. Now that your son is moving on to boy scouts you as a parent must start to learn to back off and let your son run his own path. You can be proud of his accomplishments, and be a big cheerleader but: A. If your son has not done all the requirements to earn Tenderfoot, then he does not deserve it yet regardless of who else got what else.. B. Do not compare your son's progress with that of another scout, your son will excel in places and lag in others.. He may become a scout who prefers having fun over advancing and then you must be happy that he is enjoying what "HE" chooses to get out of scouts.. Others may then jump ranks alot quicker then your son.. Guess what, not your call.. Akala is no more, Do you best (even if it is nothing) and get the award is no more.. Now it is the call of the Patrol leaders and the Adult leaders weather your son has proven he KNOW the ins and outs of a skill.. Not attended something and was a face in the crowd "watching" someone else.. If you go in as a new parent advocating your son gets what someone else gets just for being present, don't be surprised if the Scout leaders put you in "time-out" until you learn the difference between the Boy Scout program vs the Cub Scout program. Now it is all about getting your son to be self sufficient, confident and knowledgable on his own without Mom or Dad as his advocate. To do that you must step away and enjoy from the side-lines the magic happen. A mistaken rank will never be taken away once awarded, but can be rectified over time (ie. the SM may upon finding the error, make sure after the fact the scout learns the skills).. Scout parents have more of a learning curve then scouts when moving from cubs to boy scout.. Take the time to learn the new program.

Definatly not a black & white area.. all sorts of shades of gray.. Lies to make people feel good. Lies that while you are truely helping others, there are alterior motives that others may not except.. Lies where you are not helping anyone but yourself.. People knowing they are lieing, People who can decieve themselves with their own lies and come to believe in them as they tell them.. Lies of all shapes and sizes.. Those with no fault can throw the first rock..

ScoutNut - if permenantly wheelchair bound, it is a permenant condition, so he would not have problems getting a Dr's waver.. Then that would go to the Council advancement board, and based on what the Dr. writes they would decide on a fair alternative course. Still may be water related though, if the condition has pool excercises a theraputic.. If water excercises are even not recommended, the board will decide on the alternatives.

Touc I think you may have it wrong why people answered No to the second question.. Now my original answer of Yes to everything was before some of their responses, but reading them and more from you about why you are still in Boy Scouts, I will state to #1 Yes and to #2 50-50 Not because you are gay/atheist.. But because you are not being true to yourself and to a community of friends you are with a good percentage of time.. Because you admit to using your friends for selfish personal gain.. But I will say still 50-50 because if you have been open with some of your friends in the troop, I guarantee that they are not the only ones who know. It is just human nature that other have learned the truth from your friends along the way, it is too good a secret to not let slip to others who they personally trust within the group, and those people have passed it on to others they trust.. Yet no one in your unit has called you out on it, everyone is pretending to turn a blind eye.. The Hogans Heros .. Sgt Shultz phrase of I know, Nothing.. Absolutly Nothing.. is the mode your unit is in right now.. Why??? Have you asked yourself that question? Most likely because everyone cares for you that deeply as to protect your secret.. They care because on the surface at least you are someone who is a good role model whom the respect, and even with these secrets 90% of you is still of good character unless you are (I can't think of the word, but of some psychological disorder that you can totally show a false front while being totally selfish).. There is alot of good charactor in you even though you have a self-centered streak.. Many of us are not 100% altruistic, even for the reasons we are in scouting or why our children are in scouting.. We see personal benefit, but most would not go so far as to say we are "using" our fellow scouters for personal gain..

Tuoc - The reason people are doubtful is because of the username you selected and because rather then coming in and spending several months getting to know people.. Your first post is one that is a heated and emotional subject and has been discussed many many times over on these boards, but usually not by someone who openly admits to being both heated topics on his very first post to the boards.. Kind of makes you think, you posted to cause us to get into a heated arguement over it.. But if so unfortunately we have exhausted this subject matter in other threads, so we just end up stating our beliefs with little emotional heat.. You could be looking for a place to be truthful and open under the sheild of remaining anonomous, but unfortunately it is not the way to walk in and introduce yourself and find warm welcome, though some of us with sympathize.. You have chosen a hard path, but must have the courage to face it, as others stated not in a way that you flaunt it, but in a way that you are comfortable enough to not feel it is something to hide.. And you may say you are openly gay & atheist, but truely you are not, because you choose to hide it to belong to groups that will not welcome it.. You are trying to live in both worlds.. Merlyn_LeRoy - is openly an atheist.. He nor his son are in scouts, and he comes to this board to tell us how wrong we are for not accepting atheists (not sure his views on gays).. We accept him, we know the problem frustrates him, and he wishes to change it, but he does not do so by joining a troop and hiding that fact about him.. So when Merlyn comes along to tell us we are all unfair whatevers, we say "Hi, Merlyn.. How are you?"

Welcome.. Well you will get no complaints from me, but others on the forum will beg to differ, between those bent on the rules not being bent and those that are in full agreement of the rules.. That being said, I know my husband (who is the Advancement chair) would not have awarded you the Eagle, had you been open about it during your ECOH.. He would be kicking himself and feeling all kinds of bad for doing so, but in that position he would have been forced to follow the rules.. So I am curious to how long you have been openly gay/athiest, and what your unit leaders & district is saying about it.. I know some units let it ride, then the district/council gets wind of it and forces the unit to remove them. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Your right the view is not the emphisis, but looks like it would be wonderful.. That must be a building for meeting or trainings, it looks too good (and big) for a sleeping cabin. That would be a great deal at $100.. my little $30 cabins are little huts for sleeping with bunks crammed in for maybe 8 to 10.. Still waiting for the price of the place I need for the meeting..

I guess I shouldn't complain at $1 a head & $30 per staff cabin.. Still waiting for what the cost of the boat house is for 2 days.. It is just that this fall I have booked a local fish & game place with a club house & camping area and I got it for free.. This Spring IOLS snuck up on me, so I don't have much leeway to look around, but if the council costs, I will try to use the Fish & game place more often. Still I think I will email our Council Training Chair & double check.. It can't hurt. I don't want to go back to the lady who books the camps sounding like I am entitled, but again I don't want to pay for it due to a misunderstanding and she did not catch this was for council training.

Well I just found out I mis-spoke.. I was told by the Lead Ranger of the Camps it was free.. I just booked to find that there is a $1 per head fee and a fee for buildings.. I was looking for 2 cabins for the staff but at $30 per building we may forgo that rather then charge the participants for our cushy comfort.. I haven't gotten the price of the building I want for "in-case of rain"..

acco - (i.e. we cover all expenses including full cost of utilizing council porperty for the weekend) but we don't try to make a profit. Our council camps charge nothing for us to use them for training purposes..What is your council charging you?.. I know if a troop goes to a council camp (own trek, not for summer camp).. It is $3 a head per night.. Is it a simple cost like that or steeper?

Philzer - most of this is the exact same banter you would get around any campfire with scouts hanging around (maybe not Basement.. Sometimes this media does cause one or two of us to pick up warning signals by reading between the lines.. Lots of times the warning signals are proved incorrect if the person stays and defends themselves, sometimes they are correct or the people run off and we never know.) Eliza - hang in there as our friend BadenP says - You can't be a woozie around here.. Although these guys banter may make you a little woozie.. Or make you feel like downing a few and becoming a little woozie.. (or maybe you can get the guys to drink a few get them woozie, where they will sleep it off and they won't banter so much..) So Eliza - did you buy the sled? If you did will it work per specs for your klondike? If you didn't did you find a different way to get a sled?

They at least need to make some change to allow a Dr to sign a med form if your are not 100% healthy for the sake of getting these people to summer camp.. As it is now, you are eliminating alot of people, 4 from my troop without even looking at the weight issue.. They need to take their head out of the sand and address the very LARGE problem they have just caused.. If they don't they will be loosing membership as the unhealthy and the families of the unhealthy (those with healthy brothers).. Voice their opinion loudly with their feet. Not to mention some camps may have staffing problems between their wonderful pay and then this eliminating factor.. Or full the troops that can not go to summer camp because the adult leaders who can get the time off from work are not 100% healthy.. Lots of lost people at their camps.. Possibly lots of people leaving scouts. Maybe that is their plan.. More room for soccer scouts!

Thanks there are some very good ideas here.. Just a reminder - the Den Leader is a co-worker of mine, not in my unit nor even my district.. So I just wanted to get him helpful suggestions.. But the gift card sounds like a great way for someone like me who doesn't know the family at all to contribute something to the cause.. That is easy enought to give to my co-worker to pass on. bear dad - we are in the NH state.. It is a Monarchs Hockey game..

I have a co-worker who is a Webloes den leader. Just found out yesterday someone in his den lost everything to fire.. The kid is very upset about the lost uniform, it was his grandfathers' boy scout uniform, so irreplacable. My co-worker went out though and bought him a new uniform, also it was Scout night at the local hocky game this weekend. My co-worker is giving them his tickets while he and his son miss the game, seeing that it might be nice to get out from where-ever they are temporily stationed.. I suggested the Pack might come together to get them some supplies (either new or pot/pans you are not using).. But they need to hold off until they have some place to stay.. I think my co-worker has gone out of his way, to help out.. But, any suggestions I can give him as to what the pack might do? I know it was a single mother not sure if this was her only son.. They lived in an apartment building.

Guys, Got this back from our council Program director, after asking about what the work around was with form C to allow people to have them filled out for Summer camp if they were not in picture perfect health.. Decided to share it here, might as well get all of us emailing them.. I share your concern about the new form and will pose the question to the national office, but Id encourage you to e-mail them directly as well: Health.Safety@scouting.org. The more people from around the country they hear from, the more likely they are to act quickly. I think we should still encourage people to use the new form and hopefully well get some clear direction on how to handle exceptions soon.

Not to be mean, but the nightline story showed the parents.. They were not too physically fit.. Sometimes it is hard to judge what is physically fit, if your whole family is out of shape.. Their term for physically fit, may not be your term for it.. (in other words delusional)..

I asked very similar question around November of last year.. Here are the responses I got in this link.. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=295653#id_295836 PS.. Husband emailed scouts with problem.. Either they needed physcologist with written forms stating it was a permanent disablity, or he needed to do the swimming then he offered to help with 3 trained swimming instructors working with them 3 to 1 (where 3 was swim instructors).. Never heard back from them, so don't know the end of the story.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

I am suppose to have a profit for training.. But, no way is it 30%.. I thought it was 10% - 15%. I am new to training, so I freaked out about the costs on my first IOLS training.. I ended up with so many going and completely filled patrols of 8.. I then ended up with way too much profit.. To make it better, I added that the course would pay for the breakfast & the lunch.. Got the money back to the participants rather then to council, but I ended up organizing and trucking in alot more food then originally planned. I know Camporees are to have a % of profit also.

Would be nice clemlaw, but their is no place for Dr to indicate Pass/fail height/weight.. or OK on this checklist (because he might fail you for having seizures or something else on the list).. It is more the following.. Statement the dr must sign. EXAMINERS CERTIFICATION I certify that I have reviewed the health history and examined this person and find no contraindications for participation in a Scouting experience. This participant Meets height/weight requirements Does not have uncontrolled heart disease, asthma, or hypertension Has not had an orthopedic injury, musculoskeletal problems, or orthopedic surgery in the last six months or possesses a letter of clearance from their orthopedic surgeon or treating physician Has no uncontrolled psychiatric disorders Has had no seizures in the last year Does not have poorly controlled diabetes If less than 18 years of age and planning to scuba dive, does not have diabetes, asthma, or seizures If you have anything on this list, Dr. won't sign off.. No sign-off, good-luck to summer camp or woodbadge.. This is not a checklist the dr checks as meeting or not meeting the statement.. He only signs if you are perfect..

But, what if it isn't a health/saftey issue? Meaning the scout is acting just fine having a great time, keeping up with the other scouts.. May it is you who get hot & tired, then think and say to yourself.. "Ooops, this is strenous.. Should not have my overweight scouts and Joey who has epilepsy out here..".. But those kids are absolutely fine and having the time of their lives. So if there is no issue with the scouts.. Would you pull them out (to their embarrassment with their peers) and call their parents to take them home, in the middle of the event?

I use to live in Illinois, still have relatives there. Are you in the suburbs of Chicago area or the corn?? Spent childhood summers in the cornfield area.. Went to college & lived for a while in the Oakbrook & Bolingbrook suburbs of Chicago.. Two totally different worlds (at least they were many moons ago..)

That's just it.. For Summer camp & woodbadge, part C needs to be filled out (presumably with Dr. Signature..) The Dr. must attest to you height/weight being in bounds when he signs.. But for Summer camp & woodbadge the height/weight doesn't matter, but nothing tells the Dr that (if you are signing to go to summer camp/woodbadge.. Then it is OK for you to sign this..).. Totally confusing.. Anyway.. We got off topic.. As to On Topic.. You may try to be by the book, but there will be exceptions to do so.. What happens if you plan a community project, seems low intensity.. Get there start up and becomes more then expected.. (the project is being lead by someone else that did not give you full scope.. The heat in the day, makes it more stressful then expected.. So what to you do with your over-weight scouts.. Sit them down in the shade for the rest of the day?)

OK.. Found where I saw the Woodbadge statement.. I think I read it wrong..part C is only needed for Woodbadge if it is longer then 72 hours straight (I think).. And if it is a full week rather then 2 seperated weekends, it falls into the confusing mess of Height/weight not required but need Dr. signiture testifying that you fall in the height/weight requirements. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Resources/MedicalFormFAQs.aspx First reference is: Part C (the physical examination) should be completed if you are participating in an event that exceeds 72 consecutive hours, such as high adventure bases (Philmont, Northern Tier, and Florida Sea Base), jamborees, summer camps, and Wood Badge training courses Another area on page: The height/weight chart generally would not apply in the following situations (unless specific instructions are issued as an exception): The majority of BSA resident camps, most local council Cub Scout/Boy Scout resident camps have drive-up campsites and dont require packing in or out. Cub Scout programs. (Backcountry and high-adventure are not age-appropriate for Cub Scouting.) Wood Badge courses in a typical resident camp setting, though courses held at a national high-adventure base like Philmont Scout Ranch will enforce the limit.

Just seeing the responses.. Unfortunately it is the SM, so someone would need to get the COR to make the rule, and other people (scouts or scouters) would need to insist on it not being "forgotten".. Blancmange - where did you read about it being "all other events"?? I read the following: is the physical exam that is required for participants in any event that exceeds 72 consecutive hours, for all high-adventure base participants, or when the nature of the activity is strenuous and demanding. Service projects or work weekends may fit this description. on the form (part C) I see the following: If you exceed the maximum weight for height as explained on this page and your planned high-adventure activity will take you more than 30 minutes away from an emergency vehicleaccessible roadway, you will not be allowed to participate. I also read something really odd that stated that you could not attend Woodbadge without meeting the risk factor.. Now I am not sure where I read those (if anyone can re-point me to that link).. But I thought summer camp (if you can get a Dr. signature on med form) and things like cabin camping and car camping events would were OK.. Not something so complete you could not go to a Court of Honor, due to weight or seizures. COH's are more low inpact then a scout meeting most times (unless you host yours after a 5 mile hike up a mountian).. Basically the dumbing down of the Boy Scout program if you have no adult leaders that are "risk free".. Or your troop does not want to single out some boys. Or if you try people start complaining of discrimination).. So the troop starts to plan events everyone can take. If you can't even go to a COH, then forget the car camping & cabin camping, and maybe even the scout meetings.. (in other words, you are pathetic and a lost cause.. Go back to your couch and roll up and die, because you are past being able to get any exercise in now in order to change your condition.)

Calico -- Here in our state you can be arrested for DUI for riding a bike! So he may have been peddling home on his bike from a dentist appointment!!