moosetracker

I already have a plan to get engaged to a heterosexual woman on my 25th birthday. Reminds me of an odd love story in a distant relation. The family member is openly homosexual. He marries a woman who is openly a lesbian. Why? She wanted to be a citizen of this country.. Now before all the straight and narrows get their dander up.. Read the rest of the story.. From then on, the family didn't really know if they saw others or not, but they were always together with family at every holiday, and were truely, truely the best of friends.. My family member is stricken with aids, and slowly became sicker and sicker.. Who is there by his side day and night taking care of him until the bitter end? His wife.. They even stated that they wish things were different that they could have a normal relationship, because they did love each other to both wish that it was something they could change. There was no sex in this marraige.. But for me this was a true marraige in every other sense of the word.. At the same time it is the reason that although I don't quite understand it, because I am not programed that way myself.. I do believe that those people with homosexual tendencies, really truely can not be changed by just an attitude adjustment.. Or by meeting a nice person of the opposite gender.. Strange how so close of a normal hetersexual relationship between two homosexuals can make you realise that if you are geared that way, it really truely is unchangable..

Well there are a few, because we do Den Chief training for it.. But, it is hard to get them, unless you are around a troop that is very large and the boys need to utilize these POR's.. Reason is they are still expected to go to all their troop meetings, troop events and also to the Den meetings, Pack meetings and Pack events.. It is like doubling the time commitment to scouting.. Plus the parents have to agree to drive them to all this stuff. Then there is also the fact that usually at the end of Webeloes II they looked so forward to getting out of the Pack into the Troop.. That is because they have gone through the Pinewood about 5 times, same summer camp 5 times etc.. So their last impression of Pack life is "boring".. And their impression of Troop life is that it is for the "older" kids.. The mentality is there that taking this job is sort of like a demotion.. My troop is trying to get a boy willing to be a den Chief, but no one wants to. The den may pull a den chief from a neighboring troop and that is like a death nail for the troop, as it is most likely they will choose to go to the other troop at time of crossover.. (or at least some of the boys.)(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

#1.. If you are the den leader of the other wolf pack and thinking of enlarging it from 6 to 14 (which is way too much).. Don't also try to take on the position of the Pack's communication.. #2.. Do you have enough room where you meet to have that many people? cubs & parents who stay for the meeting, and you may need to break into two groups for a projects just to make it manageable. #3.. Still get a few parents from your group to also be assistance so that if you do break the groups down you have adult supervision of the two groups.. That is ALOT to take on.. You have a big heart, and alot of courage for even thinking about it. But, seriously make sure your eyes are wide open before you leap.

Gary - Would be great if our troop would expect that. We have one SM and like 4 or 5 ASM's my husband who is advancement coordinator for the troop is relied on to be one of the ones going on the events. the ASM's do not.. Engineer - my son loved provisional.. He went to different camps, and met different people. He would do 2 weeks per summer one with the troop and provisional, and he would sell enough popcorn to pay for his provisional week.. Our camps offer provisional every week, and it is full usually with more then 8 boys more like 12 to 20 boys each week. I guess some boys enjoy provisional. And if a parent wants to be one of the leaders at the provisional camp for the week they are welcome (if for some reason you have a timid boy.)

Basement, Did I miss something? Engineer is not even on this thread.. No one is talking of extra weeks of camp. Is maybe this post on the wrong thread?

The communications part was my role when we were in the pack.. It was paper copy, because email was still spotty, everyone did not have a computer, but it was getting there and I definately used the computer and intranet to design the monthly news flyer. For some reason I was thinking it was a single wolf.. I guess it does depend on how many are in each wolf den, and if the combining would put the one den (and the leader) over the top.. If over the top (over 8) then it may not be the solution. If so, the leaderless den should offer assistance to the wolf leader.. And make sure they ask, not demand if he/she would be willing..

I would definately fill them in on the information you have, especially the pinewood derby so that they have time to make their cars.. Then at the leaders meetings figure out how to get people in the loop. Most packs now use email for mass mailing of the information to all families. Also figure out what dens thes parents are in and figure out why the den leader isn't passing on the info. as for the lonely wolf.. Why can't he be merged into the other wolf den?

I would say my funniest is my son when he was doing his orienteering merit badge.. He has around his neck the compass. And his merit Badge instructor asks him to explain to him how to the compass is used.. "Sure!" says my son.. He stretches the compass out on it's elastic cord and let's go.. TWANG! It smacks him in the face.. Not only that but the compass arrow leave a perfect imprint on his nose so that as he looks around the room the arrow moves on his nose, points out the direction that you are facing in. And that my friends is how you use a compass..

That could be.. I just went throught something similar. I was organizing a 2 day training at a council camp. Originally I was told free by the camp director.. But when booking I got a price of $30 per cabin and they were unsure about a building I wanted for training.. So the camp director had it out with the council and they came to an understanding. The price is what is charged for off season for the propane heat, and electricity.. Since I chose late May the propane would not be turned on for us, so our price just went down to free again.. The explanation of heat price makes it more acceptable then simply rental for profit when we are working on the councils behalf to get their volunteers trained.. Not charging us if we are not going to use the heat, rather then blindly charging us for the cost, also seems fair on their part.

Hmmmm.. Our troop have the opposite problem two boys, when their parents were together they were drop off kids. My husband or I saw the mom on occasion if we were doing a MB with them. Now the parents are going through a nasty divorce.. And BOTH are at every meeting, sitting on opposite sides of the room, and wrestling for (I don't know what since the kids are doing their thing in with their patrol.) But it is obvious the parents don't want the other parent to out do them in parenting..

Clemlaw - There are a lot of things worse than having the uniforms slightly mixed up. Yeah... like a tiny tot with his pants down around his ankles, walking on his shirttails and tripping with every step he takes.. LOL.. I wish this sight could up load pictures.. I would love to see the tiger den in action.. I thought they were only using the uniform tops.. The pants too!!! Oh My!!! Of course a BS in a CS uniform would be funny, like the incredable Hulk.. (lets just hope the seams don't rip too embarrassment..

Also boyscouts have the code of "trustworthy".. Politicians don't.. Most people expect that those in government positions to be trustworthy.. So the story should go, if a boy scout and a theif went out on a crime spree and both got caught. Should the boys scout's defense be "Well the theif was doing it too".. Agree with Merlyn.. If someone announces they are suicidal, you do not condemn them for lieing.. Instead you try to help them find value in themselves and suggest places they should contact for more help.. Remember besides Reverent the law has other things in it also ( Courtious, Kind, Helpful ) are all things that should be used while dealing with a person who is despondent..

I wasn't jumping on the OP just offering suggestions, as to where to be involved. Fundraising is an excellent contribution.. But I just had a mental image of a 5 year old tiger in even the smallest Boy Scout shirt.. I just had to share..

Hmmm.. I wonder who made the BS uniform in a size that fits a Tiger scout, or are these kids swimming in their uniforms with the shirtails & sleeves dragging on the ground until they grow into them?? (just a comment here.. My husband calls the BS shirts green also.. I see tan.. I see green if someone is wearing a older shirt from the 60's or so.. But don't see green in the current uniform..)

Well ScoutNut, Webelos have the option of CS or BS uniform.. I would assume that is what is meant, not the entire CS wore the BS uniform, just that the Webelos did.. But, a mix of BS & Webelos all the time would not make sense.. They have totally different agendas.. BS can go on events the CS can't and should be totally Boy run while CS should be still adult lead with giving the boys some more control.. Webelos still have a set program of what to work on at each Den meeting.. BS do not and should not be following the Webelos program activities year after year after year.. If this troop is running a Webelos program, I would also recommend you find a new troop.. A) it is adult lead. B) the program will be redundant and repetative year after year C) it will soon hold no challenge for your son. Since I was one of the ones telling you to step back, let me explain.. You should get involved to understand the program. More so then you have been able to understand the CS program. Definatly you should learn the program. More so then you did the CS program. But this is to learn how and when to help your son. BS is designed to run like a buisness with a chain of command.. You will learn it faster then your son because you will have had experience with this type of setup.. While you can not run through the system on your son's behalf, when he is not with the troop you can guide him with suggestions on what may be a good next move, or ask him pointed questions that will guide him to come up with the answer for himself.. You will also not be a parent who will complain when your child comes back from camp telling you his patrol burnt their dinner so while everyone around them feasted, they were given cold poptarts (or something similar). You will not even attempt to call a merit badge counselor on your sons behalf to have him either hang up on you, or tell you when your son calls him on his own accord, then he will speak to him.. You will not speak to the Scout Master or Advancement chair about your son's advancement progress.. But, you could join the committee to find out quicker how the troop functions and help the boys in the troop get the events and the trips they want to go on a reality. Usually boys who make the Eagle rank have a parent that is involved with the scouting program.. This is because the parent that can advocate for (not just their son, but all the boys) to make sure the troop is running in a way that will challenge them, and because the parents understand why things go wrong, or why the boys are being allowed to mess up, or can help fix a problem in the troop so that things go smoother the next time.. Get involved with the troop, but do not focus on your son only.. But every now and them look over and be surprised and proud as he starts showing confidence and leadership and use that knowledge to offer him more trust in making his own decisions at home.

I would suggest a fundraiser that your troop helps organize and support, but All the money goes to the church.. If all the $400 had gone to the church, you would have been 2/3 to what they were looking for from you.. Call it community service to your CO.. $600 from 30 boys is alot to ask for, yearly that would start to hurt. ...asked whether the church could still afford to sponsor us. The COR was adament that the church was very willing to continue to charter us but was still interested in the money as well This to me means they are not able to sponser you, but they are looking at you as revenue.. It also means that if you did leave they would probably keep the Pack Number, equipment and what is in your bank account.. (I am unsure what equipment you have..) If I were you I would run down your bank account paying for summer camp, and find a new CO.. Something to consider in the meantime is consider yourselfs a Pack whose CO can not provide the facilities.. Our town pack is like that, as are others.. Den meetings take place in other places (homes, a different church may open to a single den of your troop if they have a member of the den in the group our den was not run by the school, but we met in the woodshop of the middle school.) Pack meeting is a little harder to find a meeting room big enough but it can be done, our was in the towns old town hall which we paid a flat fee of $15 for use for the year.. We outgrew it and now they are meeting at the elementary school on a school night and seem not to be charged for it. Our CO is the Lions club that can provide the space for the troop once a week due to them being smaller and not having den meeting constantly at different times.. They would be financially supportive with help for boys of low income.. Those are the two options I see..

OK.. here is a question, some are upset that the OP has not followed the scout law of being "Trustworthy" and "reverant". I agree those have tarnished him, but made him a total lost cause.. There is one thing in the scout oath that is not followed by all of us, and those who have not followed it have (up to now) been accepted, by those that do follow it.. Though we have now started down the path of rejecting them.. physically strong... We all agree we should promote it, but should we deny people who do not follow it? Should we start to deny boys who do not meet the Height/weight chart from getting Eagle? If they are overweight (this is something they can prevent)? How about not being physically fit over that which is beyond their control? heart problems or Epilepsy.. For the record, I don't think so, because alot of boys who are unable to do football or other sports due to not being in peak physical health do join scouting in order to have something other then being a couch potato in their lives.. We have the ability to improve their health.. We have the ability to welcome those with physical disabilities and learn from each other how to work with diversity.. But I am just wondering the value the boys placing on the words "physically fit", if they recite the Scout Law, then an hour later down a twinkie or ice cream while they are in need of loosing a few pounds.. Maybe I feel this way because I have a few pounds to loose myself..? Maybe alot of you feel we should kick all people who are not in perfect health out of scouting.. Maybe in a few years Scouting will tighten their enforcement of physically fit to do just that.

Very ingenious and creative!

John - even better that you see these beliefs as clear cut acceptable.. I was just trying to push you towards excepting them as shades of gray due to your reaction to my statement of But although I know reverent is to believe in some higher being (I could be wrong but it could even be someTHING higher then you, rather then of a higher being) (But, I know it does not need to be a god per-se).. Where you challenged what looked like to me as an argument that it had to be a mono-theism God, and nothing else was acceptable, and backed it up with quotes out of BSA literature.. I don't know Budism, but if there is not higher being but more a belief in a community.. then I would call that a something.. So I think our perspectives are comeing closer and closer to an agreement..

This was important enough that I wanted to start a new thread rather the resurect the old one.. I sent off to the office of Health & saftey the concern about med forms.. I asked 3 questions.. Q. Is part C required for Woodbadge if Woodbadge is broken into under 72 hour weekends? Q. Is other ailments listed for Dr. Signature (seizures, asthma) also waved for summer camp? Q. How do we get Part C completed with Dr. Signature in order to allow people who are not picture perfect in health to go to summer camp / Woodbadge? this is the response back.. Wood Badge yes. the Task Force for this record is looking at updates to the signature block. Stand-by as to what those would look like. So good news is, the change will be in the health form not the FAQ sheet, in order to get people into summer camp and woodbadge at least.. FAQ sheet is at least something I can digest, and live with.. Unfortunately I did not ask about the problem with the FAQ sheet stating form C was to be used for high adventure activities and the med form contradicted it with "all events" statement, as it was not brought to my attention before I sent out the email.. Maybe someone else emailed them also asking that question. But I am happier the FAQ sheet is more accurate then the med form.. So hopefully it is in this case also.

John - we agree! Atheism is black, where as catholic, Protestant, Jewish is white.. Where as taoism (could be white or many shades of gray) A boy with no religion but believes in something higher, but can't define it is gray. A religion with Gods not a god is gray. Polytheistism or other beliefs based on science more then a being is gray. atheism - is the only thing BSA will reject, because it is black.. It will except the shades of gray.. Even if there is no singular word of "God" attached to it. I did not say that atheism is a form of a religion. I just stated it was a belief. It is a belief that there is no higher being.. Because it is a belief we who are following the scout law, must be reverent to them. Meaning we have no right to try to change their belief, think they are less then us because of their belief, or discount their belief as not being a belief at all.

Maybe, but the BSA does accept other religions that do not believe in a God, as valid.. Some with gods, some more reverent to science.. I don't know the name but there was some religion accepted that was discussed on these forums that branches may have a supreme being and other branches did not so much (was it taoism or something).. Scouts who just have a gut feeling of something higher then them, but have yet to define it, much less call it a god.. These are all beliefs BSA will except, so they will contradict themselves on that piece of writing.. BSA contradicting themselves is not a very new concept. We all must learn shades of gray John.. And be reverent with it.

Well drmbear.. I can agree with most of what you say.. the only tweek I would do is an atheist may have an understanding of what God means to others, but may not find value or meaning for themselves.. After all if you are going to reject a belief, you first need to understand what it is that you are rejecting.. Otherwise you are not an athiest, just someone with no opinion on the subject.. But although I know reverent is to believe in some higher being (I could be wrong but it could even be someTHING higher then you, rather then of a higher being) (But, I know it does not need to be a god per-se).. And I have no problem with this.. I put more stock in being respectful of the beliefs of others around you.. And that includes the belief of the athiest.. Because like it or not, it is a belief...(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Yes, when my son was a cubscout they had a $5 box (I think only 5 pack of microwave in it..) The 15 package box (don't recall the price maybe $10 maybe $12) was a better deal, but the $5 boxes were an easy sell.. Why?? because people supported the boy Scouts without feeling they were spending too much money.. Much harder sell when they removed the 5 pack boxes for $5.

My son really liked the metalworking merit badge, they also had pottery wheels and did the pottery merit badge which they liked.. Another camp has motorboating, horseback riding but those are a little too expensive to add without a planned budget for it.