moosetracker

ScoutNut - The guy who is running RT is the District Commissioner, because he hasn't found anyone else to run it. That said, this information came from National only about a month ago.. I made sure that the DE and the Council Program Director got the information (because I got it from this forum, and it seemed they were clueless..) I handed it to them, with the letter from National which stated to plan to discuss it at Round Table.. Then I stepped away.. I figured they would figure out how they wanted to present it.. Our RT is this Monday, and I only asked Friday if they were ready to present it, out of curiosity because I put the wheel in motion so to speak.. The DE knew of the changes, but failed to tell anyone else, obviously the Program Director also failed to discuss it at the council meeting because the DC was totally clueless.. That is when I offered to help present the information.. Do I feel this it Training? No.. This is presenting information of changes to the program.. Was this my place to do the presentation? No.. It should be someone from council or one of our Key 3 who are apart of council.. But, I only offered because they were not prepared.. Given that, I saw no reason to arrange an organized training on the subject, because it was not my job to do so.. Also I disagree about the training needing to be instead of normal RT.. Most people take YPT, of those who took YPT that night NOONE who was there normally attended RT.. So why would you cancel you normal RT in order to hold this training? If I held a piece of IOLS at RT, the breakouts might be down one or two people, but 95% of those who attend RT do not need to do IOLS training.. So why would you cancel your normal RT in order to hold this training? Basically 90% to 95% of those who need the basic training, or of those who are not taking the YPT on-line is not those who normally attend RT. Starting 1/2 an hour early would not be enough time for a training.. They are normally 1 1/2 to 2 hours in length.. Asking people to get to RT early to go to RT afterwards is asking them to arrive at 5pm. Some people have an hour to drive from work to get to the RT, and that is if there jobs are within the district area, if they work out of the district area it may be more like having a 1 1/2 to 2 hour commute.. We always allowed the participants to come in see the general RT informational session, then when Breakouts happened, we then had them go to the training sessions. That way they got a feel for what RT is all about.

The Cub breakout I think sometimes goes by that plan Seattle.. The BS doesn't.. But CS isn't so rigid either. I think last month they had camp promotion.. BS breakout is more loose flowing.. They have dragged my husband & I in off the streets so to speak because nothing was prepared for the breakout session (or maybe whoever they planned didn't show up?) The RT commish himself deals with rechartering, so will spend time passing out the rechartering forms during RT which usually kills the breakout time by half an hour every single year. Last Fall we had Council come in to promote the Blue Angels which was a fundraiser for Council.. And again half an hour or more was killed promoting it and passing out to each units the promotional kits and having each unit decide how many tickets they wanted for selling (they each had to sign a contract to get the tickets, so they were accountable for the money or the return of the tickets that were not sold. The Break out groups usually leave some time for people to come in and make announcements at their breakouts that is specific to the Pack, troop or Crew.. Before the breakout there is about 20 minutes of general announcements.. Believe me, if he tried he could squeeze the time in for getting important information out. Believe me it definately does not need to be me doing the public presentation. In fact I would prefer it not be me. I think it may be more of a personal issue with me.. I have been meaning to talk to the DE, as he has been treating me like the golden girl who can do no wrong during District Committee meetings, at first it gave be confidence that although I thought I was screwing everything up, I must have been doing something right.. Then it got embarrassing, and I am beginning to think I am not making friends with my peers because of it.. If the UC (who is also the RTC) feels threatened by me also, it is affecting more then I think.. It just kills me that the unit volunteers will suffer over some Adult ego thing.

twocubdad - You are right.. I have already decided that given this attitude, RT is just not a necessary place for me to attend. Which gives me, as I said, and extra free night a month.. I basically sent an email to him showing him the letter from National to Council stating it was Councils responsibility to get the word out in newsletters, websites and ROUNDTABLE.. That it was not the District Trainers job to inform the units of the upcomming changes. I had just made the offer to help him out since he was not prepared to do his job, and that I was sorry to do so, in the future I will know better then to offer him help with anything. I know others think it is the District Trainers position to go to RT to promote up coming trainings and answer questions.. But unless someone sits this guy down and gets him straightened out, I will do my job by sending flyers to the RT promoting the Trainings and sending out emails to the units about upcoming trainings.. I now have the opinion if I open my mouth to sneeze during a RT it will be looked apon as my Training someone on the art of sneezing..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

FScouter - I understand what you are saying. The tour Plan should be a straight discussion and they should have all the answers.. With med forms - the Problem is the med form is already live. Summer camp early bird pre-payments are due next month, and people are printing those med forms out and taking them to the Doctors.. Therefore the Councils should be discussion what the plan is for the units to do while waiting to see what national will do and bringing that information to the unit leaders.. They should say something like there is hope that this will be resolved before camp. In the meantime.. A) go to the Doctors but if you wont pass, don't give him the med form until hopefully it is fixed.. Then mail it to your doctor for him to fill out & sign.. B) Look at your unit leaders and figure out a game plan of who can take the boys to summer camp, if your normal volunteers can not pass the physical.. Have a plan A for if the med forms are fixed in time, and a plan B for if they are not. C) Individual to each council would be how those who can not at this time pass a med form should do about any early bird discount program the council offers. But this should be discussed and they should have an answer on a council for council basis. D) Have an answer for if the council camps will offer more provisional camping opportunity for units who will now have no adult leadership to attend.. (Probably not since their staffing may also become tight, if their normal staffers can no longer attend..) Your right FScouters, they should have answers for possible questions.. But, I am sure they will not think of all the questions that might be asked.. But sticking you head in the sand and not informing the units, is a worse move.. At least if the units have the knowledge and Council doesn't have the answers then the extra people will ask the questions that will get them to think about their plan of action, for those things they did not think about. Also units can start coming up with their own game plan.. Even if that is to forewarn the parents of the kid with asthma not to put in an early deposit for camp this year.. Or can troop A group up with troop B and together get enough adult leadership that will pass the medical form.. I truely detest keeping people in the dark about a situation, and not allowing them time to plan accordingly.. And really I don't think that is the Councils intent (though I am unsure why they did not organize a game plan at their council meeting to address the issue.) This is more what I consider a RT commissioner who is way out of sync with what the unit volunteers expect their round table should provide. It really shouldn't be a rehash of the changes to the med forms & Tour permit.. That is just what is the kicker right now.. For all I know this RT commissioner may have know about the required YPT training, and decided not to use the time to mention it at RT because it would throw off the timeing on the program.. And besides it is all about "yuck poo" Training.. Which is not an issue for RT.. I was yelled at before for putting a YPT training on a RT night.. As far as I was concerned those going where not the normal people who went to RT.. Sue me, I brought in different people, who might learn about RT for the first time, and start showing up in the future.. I also am guilty of planning to do a pre night Intro to Outdoor Leader Training outside the RT in May.. I will definately be moving it to a public park.. Again, we don't want to encourage anyone new to learn about RT and find it interesting enough to return in a different month to learn more about it..

Well I am sure if I ran around in the circle of little league parents there would be those who played as youths with lots of fond memories to chew your ear off with. I don't though I run around in the circles of scouting so get the adults with memories of their scouting days, like you.. I was very happy my son had no intrest in sports (except a small time with karate).. I knew I could not make the commitment they wanted, (nor did I have a fondness for sports to care too.) But, I knew I could make a commitment to what scouts expected. And we were scout parents with similar feelings as you and made all den meetings & pack meetings unless some major thing interupted it (like a wedding of a family member). The karate failed due mostly to my lack of commitment to get him there and his lack of commitment to practice at home, so he was falling behind others in the course. Scouts stayed form his first grade tiger days, to the present where he is still involved at 20 years old.

I would also think that having your scouts & scouters going to their annual physical with med form in hand, to be shocked then if the Doctor refuses to sign it would make people angry.. Especially if uninformed, I had already payed a percentage of my camp fees early, for a discounted pricing, to find out if the form is not fixed, I was going to loose my deposit.. The District should be letting people know of the problem, that the council is on their side lobbying for a fix. And that National was rethinking the way the dr. signature was set up. I would also come with information such as go to the Dr. appt if you have it set up, but hold off on the med form if you think you won't pass.. And if they should pay for the Early bird discount or not if they think they won't pass.. Will the council reimburse them if the med forms aren't fixed? Will they extend the early bird discount for until word is out that there is a fix? Or should they just plan to pay full price if they have medical issues. Personally that is a sticky situation I would not leave to sending out email. But, I would think it warrents person to person discussion so that the volunteers know the council is as concerened as the volunteers about it. As for the Tour Plan, maybe an email will be fine, but even with this there are people with alot of concerns and questions. So discussing it in an open forum so everyone can hear the answers seems better then getting a ton of email on similar questions and haveing to answer them all individually.. With the fact so many people have been lead to believe the Tour permit was tied to insurance.. There is going to be alot of concern about the fact it is not required for everything.. Also there was other concerns addressed on this forum, I am sure that the unit volunteers will have.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

So I got into some poisoned pen letters with our RoundTable Commissioner.. Seems we have very different opinions of what round table is all about.. For me it is so that * people in the district get together to share ideas and get answers to current problems int their units. * Get information about important changes that are happening to the program, and how to handle and react to them.. * Hear about the District & Council programs (Camporees, Klondikes, trainings) * Fellowship with other scouters.. I don't quite know what our Round Table commissioner thinks it is, but for him the planned program is ridgid and cannot be changed for getting information about important changes that are happening to the program out.. I asked our DE & RT commissh if they were ready to present information about the comming Med Form changes and Tour Permit to Tour Plan changes to Round Table.. When they were not I offered to do the presentation since I knew alot about it. I was thanked by the DE, but he understandably deferred the decision to the RT commish.. I was told by the Commish that I was trying to Highjack RT for my own Training purposes.. To set up a date outside of RT if I wish, and they would inform those at RT to attend my training on it.. They have their program set and I was short Changing those who come to RT from the planned program.. So I don't see this as a training, but of passing out important information. Am I wrong? I also don't see the point of wasting our districts volunteers time by having them waste a Saturday to drive maybe 1 hour or more (our district is a large geographical area) to come to a 30 minute meeting so that the District Training group can inform them of program changes that will effect their operation. Am I wrong? I personally feel like there is no reason for me to go to RT any more. I don't belong to a unit, so I don't need to be pitched their promotional retoric.. I went to answer questions and help the volunteers where I could understand the program.. But, if that is not a part of what RT is about, I guess I freed up a Monday night once a month for myself. I waited a few days to write this and probably I still show alot of anger and frustration about this, but believe me, it would have been alot worse had I written it Friday night.(This message has been edited by Moosetracker)

Ramblinrosey - you are appointed to a district position, so yes the silver tabs apply.. I am unsure about the patch, I am in a position like most that you just wear a committee patch.. But a few did have their own patch, commissioner might have been one of them.

Hey sherminator, if you try to give me body shots when I am up on my high horse, my horse is gonna take you down!

My first District IOLS training.. I had to bring everything.. Like EVERYTHING, as if I was a fully functioning troop, but it was with my own supplies. So we took down our large Garage Tent, my husband uses in summer to store lawnmower and other things. Washed it down. And put all the poles and Canopy in a large trash can we also needed.. My son & I get there on Friday day to set up.. Pull out the garage tent and find that one of the corner knuckles that pulls 3 poles together are missing.. We are like 3 hours from home, no way to return for it.. Now I am not the BS so I am of the mindset that we just can't have a Canopy, hope it does not rain.. My son luckily is the BS so he goes off finds a thick stick with a corner jams it into one of the poles lashes on another stick Jams that into another pole.. It was probably the most sturdiest corner, although the long side pole was not quite level.. At least while the whole canopy lasted.. It was the most blustery weather, several people lost their tarps some ruined for good.. Ours blew into a gully.. when we hauled it out that 3 corner grouping had held up.. When we went home the corner peice was found on the ground where we had disassembled it.

Scoutnut - you have never had a past bad history with something "color" your view of the way you look at things? I never said it was the same crew what I said the OP has a History.. Their history has colored their viewpoint.. First impressions an all that.. Being human that is understandable.. People asked Fox to articulate his/her concerns more.. This gives you a backhistory of where his/her concerns lies.. I don't know if Fox is still watching this post or not, but my feeling is if you want to change his/her mind, it would be better to state positive reasons for the combining of Troop & Crew, rather then attacking as if he was a bigot or prejudice about the topic.. They are working with bad past history. By the way their son is now in a troop and a Venturing Crew, although an all male Venturing Crew.. this is from a back post: My older son chose a fairly large Troop (70+) with a good number of active ASM's and boys his age. They have a Venture Patrol (which he was put into) AND a co-ed Venture crew, which hardly interacts with the Troop at all. All of the boys in the VC are also active Scouts in the Troop, and the two groups have seperate activities. This is the way it's supposed to be! So "No" not against all Venturing.. Maybe co-ed, maybe all girl.. But, that is because their back history has colored their view.. And if it wasn't the same all girl crew from the old troop. I would say this other all girl crew with "potty mouth" at a Boy scout events is probably strike #2.. Now for the OP's benefit what are good reasons to open the boy scout events up to the Venturing Crew?? Qwazse & Moxieman & Seattle get the point, and have posted some beneficial information.

Eagle - as long as your moving back into council I don't think you need one for driving out.. My reasoning is they say you don't need a tour plan if going to a council camp even if it is outside of the council area.. You have to drive outside the council to get to that council camp, so if no tour permit is needed there.... I would ask your council about the other.. Maybe the "within town of the unit" will still apply.. Not positive, but it a possibility..

This was the original discussion. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=301715&p=3 then it got off topic, so this one was started to put it back on-topic http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=302291

Tour Plan is a little more lax then the tour permit was, but not just for 500 miles or more. It is for anything out of your council, and within council if it is concidered a high adventure course.. We had a thread on in may a week or 2 back, I will see if I can locate it an post the link to it here for you.

The original post about the problems is in this thread.. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=179776#id_267539 I am not sure if the comment of them moving was a follow up in the same thread, or a thread after that.. I got some info wrong crew did have own meeting night, but they were all girls, they did hang out and do nothing during troop nights.. They got the boys to just hang with them.. etc etc.. So sue me my memory a little fuzzy, but the jist of it was correct..

Well in the OP's defense, I remember the original posts.. They were in a crew that basically was of girls that latched onto the troop, couldn't do any of their own program but was just tag-a-longs, and kindof acted steriotypical girlie with the batting of eyelashes and acting incompetent to a) flirt with the boys and b) because they never took the interest to really learn scouting skills.. They finally found a new troop, because the Venturing crew was ruining the troop they were in.. And it was an all girl Venturing Crew, a way for adult leaders in the troop to include their daughters into the boy scout program.. When you look at the OP's history, you have to realize that they are looking at this through a history of bad things happening when crews latch onto troops and just go for the ride.

I just learned something new here too. I have been out of the Pack so long, and use to the troop way of doing things.. When you get to the troop the SM takes care of program also similar to cub master. But if you are a boy you have other boys in that chain of command before getting to the SM.. But if you are a parent, you first contact if you have an issue is the committee chair.. I guess that is because as a parent you are now not part of the program.. But, I am glad I wasn't the first to answer this because I would have gotten it wrong.. We all live & learn

Weird it was at the prayer.. So what I have to say may have no bearing on it if it was the prayer.. I remember as a teen being at my church for some other reason when a BS troop was having either their COH or an ECOH.. I stood and watched, my reaction to what BS was in general was "A very boring bunch of geeks.." Just saying if they never saw a troop meeting at all, a COH is not the first thing they want to see..

It probably does not hurt. If a Venturing crew see this as a fun activity, they are probably not all that much more high Adventure then a troop. But I do see what you are saying.. The boy Scout camporee's & Klondikes are letting in the cub scouts as a recruitment effort.. And the Ventureing as a ("Ventureing want to do it too").. Venturing crews are not invitings boy scouts to theirs as a recruitment effort.. But, then many troops would probably not publicise the invite if they did. They still feel very threatened by Venturing crews since they don't start their age group after the boy scout age, but during it.. So they may be happy to direct a scout they are loosing anyway to a crew, but not a scout that is enjoying their program to a crew.. It is like directing your scouts to try out for football, or the neighboring Karate studio.. They might do both activities, or they may pick only one, so why throw confusion into the mix where you might end up the loser. The crews may be not doing the invite in order not to create waves.. If that is the case they are being respectful of the troops fears wheather justified or not, and doing what they can in order to keep the peace.. In the meantime the Boy Scout events are the melting pot for all the different Unit types. For better or worse.

Welcome, also from your neighboring NH area.. Your first year is the most confusing, then it gets easier as there are certain things that go on at certain times of the year Blue & Gold, Pinewood, summer camp.. etc.. You will get the hang of it. Just as you do, you'll move into boy scouts and have to relearn the routine all over.. But, it will keep things from getting stale and boring. As ScoutNut says, anything in particular that has you confused, or is it just the big picture??

Well if they spread IOLS over a 5 day period, chances are they may have worked with him longer.. Unless it was 4 hours over the 5 day period.. Or he may have had knowledge in some of the items, and just needed to learn and concentrate on half.. Even if not, he was not thrown hundreds of things non-stop for every waking minute of 2 days.. so he could go off and digest some, and come back for more. Over all it probably was a better way to learn it. Our camps only offer the smaller trainings Youth protection, saftey afloat etc.. Not IOLS, OWL or Specifics..

Problem is Wayne, the Dr.. whether he/she reads the The wording inside the box in the top section of Part C indicates this is mandatory for High Adventure treks and events where the participant would be more than 30 minutes from an emergency vehicle acceptable road. This will not mean much to him/her, as he will not know the camp we will attend, or the High Adventure stuff the troop will do.. How & When the form will be used if of no concern to him/her.. What will be a issue to them will be the writing in the signature box that state he is signing to attesting the participant has no medical issues in the list that is in his signature box.. The signature box will keep him from signing.. The signature box is set up for high adventure and high adventure only, and not for residency camp or non-high adventure outings.. So again, unless the camps, allow people in with the medical form all filled out but no Dr signature, there is an issue.. And National is aware there is an issue, and is looking into it.. But our health forms are due Mid-May, so let us hope the wheels of bureaucracy gets a shot of adrenalin on this one..

True, if the IOLS participant has learned the skills before comming they are bored in IOLS, if they are green, they walk away with glazed eyes, and you know you really just showed them what they need to learn, and gave them alittle time for some hands on.. But, remember it?? Ha.. Ha Ha.. Ha Ha Ha...

The IOLS does have some hands on.. It trys to follow EDGE, but somethings you just can't do.. Like talk to everyone about backpacking, then everyone should have their backpacks to go on a hike.. Well the real green participants come with pillowcases & duffle bags, just because you talk to them about backpacking their pillowcases & duffle bags do not suddenly transform into backpacks so we can go on a hike.. Sad also is that they try to rush through all the requirements tenderfoot to first class with the scouts.. Our troop you come home from camp and still demonstrate what you learned before sign off (and our camp more does about 40% not 90%).. But, how many troops just take the list of accomplished requirements from summer camp and sign-offs the scouts books with it excepting everything at face value?(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

How totally unscoutlike you guys are.. Your all talking of recipes to cook and eatting these magnificent creatures, no wonder they are soon to be put on the Endangered species list.. Now myself I have captured two and I am trying to breed them for the wilds of New Hampshire.. they had a litter this fall, but they are not adapting too well to our ice and snow this year though, I found one frozen to the tree branches after the freezing rain we had last night..