moosetracker

Yeah, We have someone really excellent in our area, who does a "Train the trainer" program which is a much longer presentation. I asked he contact me whenever he runs it again. This one was at the Scouting U, which have really only 50 minutes with 10 minutes to move to a different class. I could have used more time..

Oh, I knew no Dumps in the river.. Everyone was in agreement with that.. But the pee in the river, is also something told to me by someone who is currently in a college program to be a wilderness guide, of some sort.. He also said something like besides the cat hole or poop shoots (if have to carry it out).. Another trick with the poop is to poop on a rock and spread it, so it dries fast and blows away..(somehow me spreading my poop on a rock like peanut butter, does not bring great images to mind.. Hopefully no one steps on my rock until it dries either.. ick!!) But this is a kid currently learning in a college course, and spending summers being paid staff with these fancy thousand dollar wilderness trail packages.. I guess the class chooses a leader every semester and he keeps being elected, so I know he is not flunking out. (Kid wasn't one in the class though, it was someone else who echoed the pee in the river info..) I guess I am not looking at it as one is wrong, one is right.. It seemed like neither two sides were argueing, just stating.. Maybe one is an older style, one is newer style.. Or only if the River is fast flowing to dispurse it quickly, do you pee in the river, but don't pee in a standing pond or lake..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

So I took a Leave No Trace 1 hour course.. 2 questions.. Backcountry is more & more requireing permits, and will tell you where you can camp.. I imagine if a state forest the permit is from the state.. If City owned City?? Otherwise how do you figure out who to get permits from?? Instructor said pee 200 feet (yards??) from a river/stream, and in different spots.. Participant said pee in river if nearby one.. Is this based on what the permit says?? If you didn't need a permit (or permit does not say) which would be the better way??

A better place I would recommend is to contact the troop (if still existing.) One position in the troop is as Troop Historian.. If the troop is utilizing it you have a young man who will be happy to take those slides, and figure out how to incorporate them into the Troops history. My son got slides from an old scout master of a similar era. He went through them all looking at them through a light box, picked out the better ones. Then the troop paid to have them changed to jpg.. They now have a nice slide show of that era.

Welcome tumbleweed!.. the "Today's active topics" on the menu bar, is a great way to see what conversations are currently going on, and you can jump right in and put in your two cents. You know how to start a new post.. That's about it.. Hope to see you around..

Before our former COR was our Eagle Advisor.. She was good, she was tough, but fair.. I remember with my son, she was not happy if you came to her to review a fundraiser a few days before the event.. He was working it, but when she looked it over not all the I's & T's were crossed to her satisfaction.. He got a verbal thrashing (which for some reason caused him to go from always being scared of her, to really liking her..) Then he had to run around getting in missed things like the Money-raising form to council, and signatures for something I can't remember maybe same said form.. Some other items.. Now, the scouts are told they can have one. They may choose not to have one. If they wish for one they can then ask anyone (other then parent) in the troop to be there advisor, and the Adult has a choice of accepting the task or not, depending on their personal schedule, and if they are comfortable with doing the advising..

I know our council doesn't scrutinize everything. But they will reject in two places (I know of).. Anything with guns, you need to be a licensed (something or other) not into guns myself.. the lifesaving/Swimming the person must have a valid up-to-date water saftey instructor certificate.. My husband updated this lifeguard certificate, requested being an MBC for these two courses, and was refused, due to not haveing the water saftey instructor course. So he had to take that course (twice as long time & money wise.)

flyfishing - your comment.. I am qualified to counsel several required badges that I worry about what my son will take away from another counselor. If your son is getting all meritbadges at either summer camp, something like a MB college and you, there are things you can (and should) do to curb that.. If your son is going to other MBC's for many of his badges & you for a few, then don't sweat it.. Just make sure you are not circumventing the learning process of how to call complete strangers and ask for their time and help.. It is a great learning process that will help him as he matures and needs to do just that.. If you want to make sure he learned for the other MBC things you think are important, then do things (hopefully not homework style, but father/son style) to get him to learn it before he takes the meritbadge.. Taking your master carpentry example, work on a father/son woodworking project where you make sure you stop to explain things to him.. Then when he goes to the councilor he has knowledge he has gained working with his Dad.. The other way is when he finishes a Merit badge, simply review it with him.. Not in a test/drill style, but as an interested parent with knowledge and intrest in that area.. Add to his knowledge with a few "Did you guys talk about this? Or I always found ______ fascinating because _________.." Just make sure he has opportunity to make those adult connections, even if you could do alot of the Meritbadges with him..

No bt01, this thread (and most the comments were in 5/3/2006).. So it may have taken 1 1/2 - 2 years from the incident, for the charter to be revoked.. I thought the same thing when I saw 2004 .. What? most the scouts involved in this incident would be long gone.. Then I looked at the date of the original post.. This is an moldy, oldie, goldy...

InfoScouter - I hope the info you show is still valid.. I am taking the info they have merged it from my Council Training Chair when she announced it to the group in an "official" like manner.. But, I did not think to ask her where she got her information.. Because it was "official" like I just assumed it was from word from National.. But she could have her information from a "word of mouth" source like us with this forum.. Maybe it is not accurate.. The fact that no one else has posted to this thread with something like "Yes, News from national was release stating this for a fact.." Seems to indicate, this is something no one else has heard in an "official" like manner.. Here is hoping my council training chair has an inaccurate source. Because everyone is right (and National at least as of Jan 2010 when they put out the newsletter is right.. It is different, and should be treated so.)

Ok I have heard that IOLS & OWL were being merged in the next soon-to-be (but keep dragging it out) release.. Some in my Position in Training were upset with it, I thought it great, People were already combining the two (maybe seperating for one or two skill sets).. Now from what I heard at the council coordinated program last night, this change will combine IOLS, OWL & BALOO.. I know again similarities.. But, also differences! How to cook for 30 to 100 people, not a patrol of 8.. How to beg, borrow, steal family size tents & family camping equipment.. Rather then expecting the troops to have purchased the equipment.. All the paperwork, on G2SS.. Council excepted camping sites etc.. Half of Baloo was indoors. I am now looking at promoting to Scoutmasters who already think this training is a waste of time, a course that is 2/3 based on the cub scout program.. I would assume over a few years things will iron out, and we will promote this training while you are in Cub Scouts.. But there will alway be the new scoutmaster that never got involved at the cub scout level who will have to attend a course 2/3 designed for the Cub scouts.. I now feel like forwarning my district Troops to get trained at this Springs training before the program changes..

So ScoutBox, what is it they want their way? Training?.. I guess training they have to do it Nationals/Councils way, or not get credit for it.. That has not much to do with the UC.. Other things from what I understand a UC is suppose to support suggest & guide, but not push & force.. So with other things, if you were trying to change their program, they get it their way.. If it is the wrong way and they end up doing twice the amount of work, or have low membership.. Well not your fault.. They got it their way.. We had our Council planning meeting last night. I thought my proposal to enhance and shorten the time for experienced trainers to get through (not Nationals Testout.. but a course catering only to those who could have tested-out..) Would not come up as our Scouting University is this weekend, and I was told the meeting was totally about that.. So I was not as prepared as I would have liked when it did come up.. But, since I have a good vision of it, I think I made my case well, without much prep time. Then I was totally confused as a vote was to be taken and everyone discussed why they didn't like the Test-out, and it sounded totally like the normal test-out.. So be fore the vote I said I was confused, as everyone was definately not voting on the proposal I laid out.. Indeed they were voting on the test-out.. And our Council Training Chair said she needed a new official vote on the National Test-out.. Seems National will support each Council's decision to make it illegal, so they needed a new vote.. So I guess the last vote to not support it was a Council gone rogue.. And this was an official vote.. A vote for my program comes up in two months at the next meeting.. I guess it was more a "we can do other things, here's one suggestion.., but now we have to vote on the real Test-out.." Well not surprising the test-out was again voted to be illegal in our council.. I know one person liked my idea as she voiced it. Two other people had differing ideas. One sounded like what they already do, have the experienced scouters go through the course with everyone else, but also be on staff. Another sounded like what we have discussed, bringing back the older type of Woodbadge (which might be a good idea, but since it would not credit those with IOLS, I think is worth looking at as a totally seprate course).. So I don't know how my proposal will play out two months from now.. I do know I have a tough crowd.. I also know a few other things to mention, that were brought up in the discussion about why they don't like test-out, in order to sell it, to some who don't like test-out for this or that reason.. Why my proposal will address that concern.. Wish me luck in two month's I think I will need it.

I would suggest if you are lucky to have a few packs/troops in your area that your friend go to each unit and check out the units (not just financil, but program also).. Now if concerned with cost of travel you might not consider much travel to go to the best troop in the area, which may limit your friend somewhat. But, for parents while they are concerned with finances, for Boy Scout especially you want a program that has the interest of the boy, and are active and boy run.. For example our first pick of troop had a very active program and also was run by the boys, but was majorly hiking.. My son is more aquatics, so the match was not good.. If financial is a big concern, the parents may want to scope a few troops themselves, but make sure they do not pick THE troop.. But maybe weed out any that really they could not financially afford.. Then bring the boy to the potential troops and let him choose the troop. Truely I know troops that have one or two great fundraisers and all program and registration is paid.. Others who are cheap because they don't have much of a program.. Others that have a great program, but the scout families have to cough up the money for most things.. And most fall somewhere between any of these extremes.. As for milage, sometimes the troop may pay for milage of those who are carpooling the boys to an event. Ours pays the gas of the person who tows the scout trailer (basically because our two driver are young adults with little funds).. But if you are sign up and become a volunteer with the unit (you should truely help, not just be registered in name only).. Then you can write your milage off on your taxes (as well a uniform and other supplies for the adult volunteer, not what the scout needs for his youth program).. Reimbusement through tax write-off is not a full reimbursement but every bit helps.. My milage is low, compared to most on this board, but I was shocked to find out that last year came up to almost 1,500 miles.. I travel for District volunteering.. My husbands seprately is way more as he will put in not only traveling for District, But for the unit (our troop is 1/2 hour from our home) and he also travels for his meritbadge counciling (he is a swimming MB instructor and travels to the pool at least once a month)..

Congradulations from one Bobwhite to another.

LisaBob - that does sound totally uninteresting.. Our normal years had a few long parts, but not that bad.. There was more talking and visiting with each other then the speeches.. Longest parts for ours is just the beading ceremonies, and the introduction of the next course director, and his choice of staff. We have no awards & speeches by the awardees.. I fear that will be next week at the district awards banquet. My first, but I am kitchen elf, so get out of most of the speeches..

My Rationale.. I have never been in the military.. I am not any way shape or form a uniform police.. And although it is the only thing I (think) I don't follow.. I could have gone for a number of knots by now, I have no intrest in the knots.. Since to me it is the highest honor, I will wear mine with pride, because it is insane not to.. It is like giving you your general stipes and telling you you have to wear them on your t-shirt at home.. Who on earth in my civilian life would know what they are and care a whit about them?? I just think that someone missed the mark on this call.. And as I have said, I am not a military perfectionist..

Luckily no one has said anything to me or my training group for our District.. I am happy to get trainers.. I will beg and plead and am thrilled for people to step up to be trainers.. Now will I in any way shape or form say.. "Thanks for stepping up.. Now go out and buy the full uniform.." No way.. I guess my training group should be the top notch representatives.. I see arguement for that.. But, until I have my fill of trainers where I can be picky (most likely not in my 3 year tenure).. I will not bite the hand offering me help. Neither will any of our key-3 force full uniform. At least not right now.. It is definatly more, Please, Please help.. I don't care if you come in your bathrobe!.. (Well maybe I would care if that happened.. just saying, desperate times calls for more lax standards)..

And yet the on-line training is not in-depth enough to be of much use.. We just did a SM/ASM specifics this weekend.. Play the movies for them and the participants laughed.. "OH, yes.. That is a normal troop, every troop runs that smoothly".. We went a little over time, because those in the class would ask questions specifically to pull the instructors into conversations, away from the script. They wanted to hear the stories of examples, and ask how to deal with problems issues.. We got through enough of the script to call it a training, but they were not there for the script.. I had to cancel my cub scout specifics on same day for not enough attendance. Of the 2 who signed up, I gave them the opportunity to take the on-line course for official training. Then the trainer doing their specific break-out was willing to sit down with them and have a casual conversation and show them how to use the new resources.. They were perfectly happy with that..

qwaze - I missing what you are trying to say.. If you hold your woodbadge broken up into two weekends of about 60 hours each (Friday, Saturday, Sunday).. Or if you hold it for one 6 day weekend, I do not understand why the 2 weekend course is less time & money, the the one week 6 day course.. Probably it is more money if you are spending time and gas to travel back & forth twice to the location.. But really they put in the same time & money, most our people just prefer to take 2 days off of work rather the 5 days off of work for the course..

trippedIntoScouting - are you from the NH council? DWC?.. Or did you just by coincidence have your Woodbadge dinner on the same night as ours? If you were at our dinner. You may only have last years dinner to compare it to, (unless you are the one we have jokingly dubbed "the overachiever" from our district that was completed in 6 months and this was your first dinner) but what did you think of the changes?

Basement - from how you describe your council / district.. You are correct from your standpoint. For anyone who has developed a program that surpasses their council / district, then if you run above the bar I say go for it. It is just a ribbon or patch or whatever.. Most units though if they don't utilize the council programs, they are probably not doing much at all, you can usually see the same groups have the shortage of adult leaders, and are barely scratching together the 5 scouts needed to recharter.. The advancement is not there, and the leaders they have are untrained.. Not all councils are like yours Basement. Most councils run a decent program, some even an excellent program and those units not attending any of it are not doing much of anything for their own program either. A few here have issues similar to yours, but I would not say a majority do.. Others may have a decent council, but still run their units on a higher plain then the average troop.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

BDPT00 - is correct with what he says they are not for the uniform. But, my husband & I follow what others say.. I put mine on my left pocket. He puts his on the left collar.. He definately has many more then me, having been advancement coordinator for our troop. My scout jobs did not have me working directly with the kids, but our whole family was a scouting family to one boy as his family wasn't involved (he gave a pin to everyone in my family, including my son).. There was one other scout I also became close to and helped guide who gave me & my husband a pin. I do believe they are the top honor an adult leader can receive..

Ahh-Ha, that's where we differ.. You no longer cringe at the tarnishing of the rank, as you already don't think much of it. I know a few scum, I know of stories like these.. And I do know there are several kids with the attitude of the one last week that was totally self-centered, but thought the rank of Eagle was going to buy him something in paper that he did not possess in character.. Me, I still cringe at the tarnishing of it.. I know the rank doesn't guarentee perfection, but for the great scouts I see getting the rank, I cringe at those who drag the rank through the muck with them, by having their earning the rank as part of the storyline. Me, I know of the scum.. But 90% of the scouts I see are really great kids.. 10% are unworthy of the rank.. With parents pushing them through, or they themselves cheating their way through, or going through the motions.. We had one kid who went through Den Chief training this weekend.. My Trainer wanted to flunk him as he truely scared her. He tried to pull the chair out from her, and talked about dead cats and death.. I had to tell her, that our course is not a pass/fail.. It is the scoutmaster who should be the gatekeeper and not allowing this scout to be a den chief.. She felt better that this den chief being trained by her was not a sigh he had her stamp of approval.. But all the others taking Den cheif training were wonderful. Edited to ask: What would you think if you were the SM and got an email from the Training Chair informing you about the boys disturbing conduct? Depending on the SM he could see it as us budding in without all the facts, or be appreciative.. Would you first run it past your DE?(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

You are absolutly correct Basement.. You just hate it while they are very recent Eagles, enough for the paper to flash the fact and make the corrolation.. At 30 or 40 years old, if they then become a killer, or is arrested in a huge drug bust, their title of Eagle, usually isn't entered into the news story, as other influences in their lives, normally take precedence over some award they got before they were 18..

Unfortunately too many, more then 1/2, I got my beading at a roundtable, but not my own roundtable. I got beaded with another person in my patrol at her roundtable. I am just not one for too much pomp around people I know, and I am one who doesn't want to put those volunteers who have to run around beading everyone to alot of trouble.. I asked my husband where he was beaded, it was at the dinner, I know a lot of his patrol got beaded elsewhere as he traveled to each beading for them, but really didnt remember his (so maybe that is proof it isnt as memorable). My son as I just stated was also at the dinner, I think just because he skirted under the wire on his time.. Your right, it is not really the best place and doesn't promote woodbadge. At least with our group though I would say that we have friends both in & out of district. So there are many people we know at the dinner. But not many we know from our district.. I looked on the district training records a year back and there were only 3 of us.. This year though with my son, we counted at least 4 from our district.. To be honest, they give us the option to do it outside of the dinner, but really dont push it.. So for most people it is convient because they want to celebrate it with those who were in their woodbadge patrol, and probably like me, dont want to put everyone to a lot of trouble over them. I guess us normal people just dont think about promotion, we more think about not being a bother to everyone around us. So do most other councils have a breakfast rather than a dinner??