moosetracker

AnnL - I thought our lanes were old with the manual pin reset. I don't know how many times I stood there waiting for the pins to reset until I figured out I had to do it. But it did have computer overhead, so we are a little better off then your bowling lanes. Some things that are repeat can also be different, just by choosing a different location. Choose a different lake to fish at (or at least the other side of the lake). a Pack campout can be at a similar time of the year, but at a different place. The settings themselve will dictate some change of program, based on what the area has to offer.. We did do somethings that were different then the last year, then they may get put into the agenda for a few years, or due to complications never be done again.. There was someone on the board a few months ago who did a backwards pinewood Derby.. What did they call it.. DOOWENIP YBRED or some such name, (using rocket engines, but cars could not leave track.. Did he ever write back as to how the event went??

OHHHHH... ok I know the one.. It got lost in the on-line translation of no voice in-tone-ations, and the fact I probably haven't seen the cartoon if over 20 years.. But, now that you describe it, it all comes back.. Carry on..

Just like Summer camp, (and individual units). It all depends who is running the event.. Some will do it right, and hand you a partial, some with cheat the system, call it good enough, and thus cheat the boys out of doing it right. We ran a Camporee many years back on a theme of first aide.. We had some things that could be checked off for a first aid MB.. But it was not meant to be complete, then we had other things that were not for the MB at all.. So we did some races on stretchers, and had a medical helecopter fly in and land so the boys got to go in and check it out.. (I know the schedule was messed up on that as they had an emergancy, but they did arrive later in the day.. Some things were nothing but pure fun, But we did do the full CPR course complete with alot of dummies (like 10-20) and I can't remember what they used, but there were two ways to make sure the faces were sanatized, one was a full cleanning.. But there was something else like changing out the face part, or some insertion tube (don't really remember).. Anyway the scouts really did the hands on CPR to get the credit for it. There were other things that got a sign off for a First aid requirement at the course, I don't remember it all, but it wasn't the full MB we didn't want it to be.

Squeeze him, I can see.. Call him George???!?? Who is George?? He is echoing some of what we have been telling you, so good for him. And what he says is true, it is not uncommon.. Why we know to usually console a person on this forum that you have to look at what is for the good of the Whole unit.. Glad to see he is willing to work with you on the issue.. I have had UC's who bury their head in the sand at the first sign of trouble, and only poke their head out when the coast is clear..

Another thing to think about is if you don't have a district beauracracy that you wish to flee from (some people have horror stories, of good 'ol boy clubs..) You can get your feet wet there.. Just be sure to go in with a straight head of how much time you want to utilize, and maybe what you like, because depending on the shape of your district, they may be running smoothly and you just take on a little, or they could be desparate, and pull you in like quicksand.. Some Easy get your feet wet, is to offer to lend a hand with Cub Scout specifics & Baloo Training. Later, as you learn about the troop you can add to your Training skills, those may be a few weekends out of your time (plus learning the syllabus for the training). Sometimes hard to get in, but sometimes not.. The Eagle Board.. If you are on the Eagle Board, your own troop will come to you for help soon enough, as you can help become a guide for a boy working on their Eagle project.. That is usually one night a month.. But some people here say their Council does not have a board, but a single person.. If so, that may not be an option. Maybe a Unit commissioner position for one or two units in the area. Make sure not to agree to a Chair of any type, or heading up a committee of some sort. That is more then you want to take on at this time. At least wait until you know the ropes to know what you are saying yes to.. You want to be helper bee for someone elses committee.. If you have a good district group, you will have information to pass to the troop they normally would not have a source for.. I forget what my son call my husband, but it is something like he is the "wise old man" or "Unit Guru".. My son says it is funny to watch because normally no one makes a move without checking with him, from SM to CC, to COR to all the parents..Does not mean they always listen to him, but they will check in with him as he has the knowledge from on high.. My husband doesn't even see it. Of course this works to the opposite effect if people in your district have a low opinion of the district and those who volunteer at that level.. Being CM you might already have some insight into public opinion.

bt01 is correct, not all MB can be earned at camp. The 3 MB's that have 3 month tracking are usually not done at camp, unless it is a kick-off that you must find an Merit Badge Councilers (MBC) to finish up, or you need to find an MBC and start them early.. But if you start with a local MBC why not compete them with the MBC.. (Which is why they are rare to find at camp).. Then it depends on the camp which other ones they may or may not do.. If your son is pushing 18 and has had too much fun, and now must buckle down, then the following doesn't apply.. If he is younger, especially younger then 16, then the following advice does apply.. It is a much better journey to meet some MBC's along the way outside of camp, first you have more time to learn the merit badge, second you get to use summer camp for a few merit badges and then go have fun.. The journey to Eagle should not be looked at as something similar to a Bandaid that needs to be ripped off as fast as possible so that it doesn't hurt.. It should be a slow, enjoyable winding journey, where you meet great people, go on great adventures to different places, and occasionally take time to do a merit badge or two along the way. If your son is focused on the Eagle advancement only.. (or you are focused on it for your son & pushing him along.) Your son has missed the whole true picture about what Boy Scouting is all about.. It would be a shame for him to loose out like that..

Sounds like an awsome time.. Thanks for sharing, you made me feel like I was there.

I am just not sure about tickets anymore, seems every year they keep changing the thing. 1) When my husband went through he was only troop, but one of his ticket items was to help with a district training, that was acceptable. 2) When I went through a year later, I could only do tickets related to the troop. 3) Sometime later they added something called an umbrella, all your ticket items had to relate to some common thing. 4) My son just went through it, and now added to it is this 360 form.. So I was still of the assumption if you were in Pack & Troop you could do tickets for either, but not outside what you were involved with. But, if someone says something else, I am not surprised by it anymore.. Yet I do know someone from my sons patrol was in Cubs, and had a ticket item to start up a Venturing Crew.. Anyway, just keep an open mind about the structuring of those ticket items. To me they seem like a moving target.

If you want to focus on the troop, then get that last piece of training you need for it completed. ACM may not be too bad, it is more a once a month, (maybe 2 if they have an event). Rather then once a week as the Den Leader position is. But possibly easier for you, and more benificial to both Troop & Pack may be to be the Represenative between the Troop & the Pack, organizing co-Events, ensuring the webelos are transitioning and becoming prepared to take on the challenges of moving to a troop.. I would suggest the Pack Trainer, but the leaders needing the most guidence will be your Tigers, and sounds like your other two sons were never Tigers..

Welcome.. So what is the story behind having your kids in the troop & Crew, but returning to the Pack?? Hope to see you around on the boards.

It is an odd thing, but although my husband & I moved away physically from holding my sons hand at the troop level, I think the troop was something that helped bring our whole family together into scouting, and closer as a family.. The troop is just something my husband could get more into then what was done at a cub scout level.. At the troop meeting it is true that they will not want you hovering (or a good troop, should not want you hovering).. But that doesn't mean your sharing time is over.. You can work with him at home on alot of stuff, like learning the axe, or some of the first aid. Or working with him as he prepares a demonstration for teaching other scouts.. (Just make sure it is his idea, and you are just a companion, or a guide, or an extra set of hands) Things he learn will not become easily flushed out of his mind as the meeting is over, and driving to & from scouts, he may talk about things, what was good, what was bad.. How to work with some scout in his group who is difficult to handle.. There is something about watching him grow and mature and take charge that is a great thing for parent to see and be apart of.. Even if you are observing from the parimeter of the group.. This will be a common interest, and something to have conversations about that is a "safe" subject during those teen years when they just stop being so open with you.. You may get to go on the outings, but don't be surprised if the troop asks you to hang back for a while in order for your son to get use to the troop, and for you to move out of Cub scout mode, which has the instinct to jump in and straighten out what looks disorganized, when the disorganization is the way these kids will learn, slowly how to get more organized.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Skeptic says - WHY ARE WE NOT ABLE TO SIMPLY ADJUST OURSELVES TO THE VERBIAGE AND RUN WITH WHAT WORKS WITHIN THE GENERAL INTENT? LEARN TO NOT TAKE EVERYTHING "LITERALLY", PLEASE! If this happens this forum would be a very lonely place, and need to shut down.. Quit complaining?? Impossible!!!

We always have a good attendance of young & older scouts.. I have been to a few that are not from my troop to see good attendance of ages there to.. The last one was an ECOH for 6 Eagles.. Most were 18 yo's if there were any 17 yo's as this troop has a problem with it being there tradition to see who can get Eagle closest to their 18th BD, sort of like a game of chicken.. Nice ceramony.. But.. L-O-N-G.. there was 6 of this, and 6 of this, and 6 of this including different people getting up to pay tribute to each one seprately.. The young scout behind us, who was probably a recent cross-over was getting very antsy.. Can't blame him, I think we all were.. But as the SM said, they all crossed over one behind the other.. With all the other scouting stuff on the agenda, I could not see marking of 6 different days and each seprate ceremony would have been longer.. I think we only had 2 that were close enough they could have combined.. All ours are too spread out.. We had a son of a SM also not get a ceramony due to the family not being able to plan for it.. He did finally get presented his eagle award though 1.5 to 2 years later.. They kept saying they were going to do something, but never did.. Still you follow what the family wants.. There have been many a wedding that turned out never to happen due to the stress it put on the bride & groom.. So due to these few, all weddings should be cancelled, and everyone should elope..

I don't think if someone holds an elaborate one, it means the others must follow suit. Our troop hadn't had an Eagle for a long time, so our first Eagle that comes around is the son of two wealthy parents. They hosted something to compare to a wedding banquet, rented Hall, fancy catered dinner.. The works. Next Eagle comes along.. He wants nothing, he asks to be just given the award. My son is next in line.. We find a Elks club in a wooded foresty area, they are willing to let us use the function room for free.. We have everyone bring a potluck.. Others follow ours in similar fashion, different places from their church's to a police function hall etc.. A few don't hold anything.. Now the first parents have son #2 come along for Eagle.. What does he choose??.. Pot Luck at a donated free hall.. He did not want to stand out.. That first Eagle, the pomp he threw. I won't deny I enjoyed the wining and dining, but because us normal folks could not match it, then it did not set the tone.. I think our sons a few years after did. The one thing all our Eagles do though is choose a place that is not at our normal meeting place..

Personally I feel weddings have become outragous.. But it is what it is, I would never dream of telling my son & his fiance, that because I think society and tradition has blown it out of proportion, they can just combine their wedding with my sons Birthday party, have some cake.. And kill two birds with one stone.. (I have said "NO" to their desire to have the rehersal dinner at someplace that is like $35 a plate, especially when they are economizing the rest of the wedding..) Between merchandising and human nature almost everything is blown out of proportion, Christmas, Birthdays, Valentines day... But, once the genie is out of the box, you can personally decide not to overdo and buy into the capitalistic world, but you can't tell everyone around you that they have to follow suit.. My husband & I don't celebrate Valentines day.. I get flowers at some unexpectant time, but never does he pay triple price to buy me flowers on Valentines day.. So, can we force everyone else to do like-wise? No.. And I would not even think of doing so.. Like it or not, due to tradition the Eagle has his day, anyway he chooses to celebrate it.. If the troop has many Eagles they may decide to combine it, but if you only get one Eagle every few years, most will not wait 7 years so that they can have a celebration with a group of 6 Eagles.. It is not up to you to tell them that they can not have more then a slap on the back and a handshake, because you don't believe it is worth more then that.. You can choose not to come to his celebration, but you should not force him to not have it, or mix your buisness in with his to streamline your needs & wants..

I was thinking the Bear parents lost their DL recently and do not want to be DL.. If they have been doing their own Bear stuff at home as lone scouts, (unless they really didn't do much to achieve the ranks at home).. Then Each of the parents are in fact DL's to one scout.. I would reason with them if they came together, they could share their combined knowledge and skills and make it easier for them to get through the WebI activities.. You are lessoning their work & responsibilities by combining them, not increasing it.. One parent take on DL the other ADL.. They can then rotate the responsibilities.. Seems like a no-brainer to me, unless the two parents can't stand each other..

thanks Chrispy-chip and welcome to the forum! I have no issues with girls myself (being of that gender my entire life).. But LDS is LDS, and from what I hear females & males do not mix in certain events, Boy Scout events is one of them.. Not sure what from them is acceptable mixing and what is not.. We also had a SM years back, and when the Ventures wanted to tag along with the Boy Scout troop rather then forge their own way. His complaint was partly about them forming and starting up without input from the troop Leaders, and therefore this started not as a joint event and then was not going to be forced down his throat as his responsibility.. His biggest objection was that he signed up for just the Boy Scouts and did not want the co-ed mixing of the sexes due to the chemistry reaction.. Some of the girls from the Crew would hang around a meeting because they had a brother in it, and we did loose half the boys attention (including SPL & ASPL) as they flirted and vied for the girls attention.. So he had reason for his concerns.. That is the only reason, I brought those items up as possible reasons someone may not want to include the Venturers into their NYLT.. So are you in a Venturing Crew, are you on the NYLT staff.. I was thinking, we do invite the Venturing Staff to Woodbadge, we have a few in attendance. Yet we still do the training by forming Patrols, and organizing and working as a Boy Scout troop. So if Woodbadge did not change the terminology for the Ventures, maybe KC9DDI is over complicating things by thinking that the NYLT course needs to change the terminology..

It is the Eagle's day.. But, some troops I have heard do the normal COH, then clear everything out and then do an ECOH afterwards. That is there tradition. Other Eagles get to choose what they would like, and not wanting alot of trouble just ask for something after a normal COH, that is the boys preference.. But, if you are not doing a full COH (you just had your COH).. And unless you start making it a troop tradition that all your Eagles will get their awards after a normal COH.. I would not even think of doing it once, and for just one award. I guess I look at it similar to Scoutfish, but on the other side of the coin.. The Varsity first place is a BIG thing when celebrated in the right place.. To put it on the day of the Eagle court, you have kindof made is a small thing in comparison. Let them both have their time to be honored at the right time, at the right place..

Probably many of the adults in your Troop knew you would be regretting the missed Eagle rank, if not your parents. Maybe you got a few friendly words of advise from some of the leaders.. But, at 16 you don't want to listen, and choose your own path.. But, Life rank is something to be proud of, and you stayed in until 18.. So if you dust off those cobwebs, and brush up a little with some adult level training, I am sure you will be a fine leader to your Pack and maybe graduate on to being one for the troop someday also..

We don't mind rehashing problems we have discussed before, especially with a specific real life conflict.. Although misbehavior has come up before, it is always different because of the other equations.. Like yours is a helpful grandmother, another would be an equally obnoxious Father, or mother or three siblings of the cub scout. So it is always a game changer with the whole situation.. Grandmother might be overly helpful, in order to be there, but not with the boy, who she has 24/7 and probably needs a mental break from.. So I feel for Grandmother, because she at least is not trying to run from her problems with a dump and go, method.. Unfortunately if you start really feeling he is ripping your little pack apart, and more folks are ready to cut & run due to his antics, you do need to way the good of the whole pack over the one boy.. Luckily sounds like he is moving to WebII so you only will have this headache for a little less then a year longer, if you do not ever let him go. You may end up though loosing those two cubs & parents that will be joining his den.. Make sure you have good communication with them, and can sense when things might be getting to the point of them being fed up.. But, honestly, if neither of these parents want to lift a finger to create their own Webloes I pack, they are asking for the mixing of this den.. From all I have read, you are a very tiny Pack, with few willing to help share the Adult responsibilities but just wanting a free ride.. Although this Grandma is very helpful which is rare in your unit, unfortunately this boy may be more then a unit with very little Adult leadership can take on and handle. If you do cut him loose, just remember anyone who hears the story, will know the kid. I doubt they will blame your unit for kicking out a sweet little innocent.. Many may not be joining your Pack knowing he is a member.. Do you have a Unit Commissioner to talk to about his advise? He (if doing his job) should know how fragile your unit is, and what it can deal with.. If you don't have a Unit Commissioner, you can call and speak with your District Commissioner, who will not know your unit personally, but should give you some direction & guidence and may send out a UC or himself to watch a Pack meeting and see what the situation is then give advise.. You just seem like your little unit hanging on by threads in so many directions, I can't get a good feel for advising you as to what to do..

They had a wonderful Trail to Eagle program, run by someone we knew.. My son went to provisional camps for years and knew of the T2E program, and how it was run by provisional camping next door to them.. The year he went, the guy who ran it retired from it, someone came in with a nifty idea and proceeded with it, by letting everyone think they were getting the same T2E as run for years.. Waited for parents to drop off kids & leave.. Then SURPRISE!! Still don't know what they were attempting to accomplish, they did lots of hikeing, cope course, do service projects for camp (labor not leadership capacity) were forced to take two non-eagle required courses.. They did Leadership presentations.. They also chose like 5 Eagle required badges, and wether you took them or not ALL had to take these 5 badges over again. Those who had already took them, were force to sit quietly in the corner and not interact or help those who need the badges.. They were marched around all week not knowing were they were going or what they were doing until they arrived, fed peanutbutter & jelly, and other quick foods, as they couldn't make their meals or go to the dining hall for meals.. OH, and they were not allowed to phone home.. My son had done the pre-requisits for the MB's he wanted to take, they never did those MB's and took then lost all the work he did on the prerequists without ever signing him off on his blue cards. The next year they announced at round table they were going to run T2E the same way, and did not recieve good feedback.. They did change the next year back to the old style, then dumped the program, and haven't had T2E for about 5 years now.. My son took T2E at a different camp the next year, and never went to another provisional at that camp again, because our council refused to even apoligize for the mess..

KC9 - I wouldn't even call that surprise.. If your there for leadership training & you get leadership training, it is no surprise, even if you don't know hour by hour how the course will be doing this.. What you describe is how woodbadge is set up.. I never called the course a surprise, or felt left out.. So maybe the surprise element in our Trail-to-Eagle, as in "You might have thought you were signing up for this, but surprise you are getting not this, but something we are not explaining to you, but just follow us and ask no questions.." was not a product of pulling this piece off of the NYLT course..

BDPT- also Yes.. Definately NYLT is what is currently being run, it is a weeklong course at camp.. Crew21 - Your info on NYLT is interesting in the fact that the scouts are not told what it is all about.. You kindof made a little lightbulb go off in my head of what someone was trying to emulate when they made a total mess of the Trail-to-Eagle.. And most likely the kids who were on staff were the NYLT crew.. I thought the staff was excellent from the little I saw of the presentations they made, their enthusiasm, their working with the participants of the Trail-to-Eagle.. But, the waiting for parents to leave, then turning on the boys and saying "Surprise!" "We aren't giving you the trail-to-Eagle, you signed up for, but something else.. We won't tell you what it is, you just have to follow our orders and do what we say".. Let me tell you ALL the scouts of that course were NOT happy.. If I come to a Leadership course and you tell me up front that I will not know what the course is about until I go through it, ok.. I will be on board. The kids really should be too, they should at least realize they have signed up for a leadership course, not your typical Summer course program.. If I go to a course to work on Eagle required Meritbadges and you tell me Surprise, you aren't doing what you came here to do, instead you are getting a leadership course.. I will not be happy.. But, for all the grumpy and angry scouts that were there, these guys were very good with dealling with the grumpy, upset individuals, but they followed the course directors requests to a T.. My son left the course hating the week, hating the course, but really liking the staff (except for the course director, who would not listen to the protests from ALL the participants, and would not change the course to accept the demands from the customer.) I do admire those who staff NYLT.. They really have learned how to deal with people who are not happy or on board with the program. You are right, it takes a certain kind of person.. And/or a certain kind of Course Director or SM to teach the youth who staff to be great presenters and people persons.. My son never took NYLT.. He thought about it very young, but was persuaded to wait until older. By the time he was older, he decided he really didn't want to be SPL but perfered things like historian & Quartermaster.. So then had no desire to take the course. Being year one on the Training commitee, I am just beginning to learn what it is all about.

BDPT00 - Ok the Explorers was wrong, are sea scouts welcomed? Just thought there was a 3rd group, it was more of a melting pot.. This is my first year on the training staff, all I know about the choosing of the staff, is that a list of possible staff members was made up by the Course director (having input from many so he learned of good canidates from districts he in not involved with).. The list was passed around the Table of the District trainers table for all us DT's to look at, some people were advised to be removed because they were not reliable, or for some reason. Then the remaining list was voted on for approval. Then someone said it had to go some place else (don't remember, but I think national, so I think the voting part was done.) The course director then went off to ask those on the list if they had the time.. This year he had to come back to the table for a much smaller second list, because of the fact with the economy some were out of jobs, and though they had the time now, could not guarentee the time for the 2 weekends, as if they got jobs, they would probably not have the time to take off from the new job. That is the election part I am talking about, maybe it is a unique process to our council.. If people were Scribes multiple years, then they were asked/invited by each course director to be on the staff. I know they wanted someone with computing skills for it, but since it is only word, excel & SQL I don't think it is that hard to find those skills, so not sure if that is why the re-ask a person to be staff for the same position. I would imagine much harder is finding a Quartermaster who needs the skills of a restraunt chef. I am unsure though if anyone has been staffed as Quartermaster multiple times. There are 2 scribe positions & I guess they are not equal positions, this year I am not "head" scribe, but "underling" scribe (don't really know true names, they are both listed scribe, but .. Also there is a scribe position that looks like it is not a true staff position, (so no bead), that is "photographer" scribe.. That might be why people become scribe multiple years, they take on a different scribe position, or are there without being officially on staff. So as you guys say, maybe this is not a hard and fast rule, but rather it is a "suggestion".. That our council follows pretty well.. The two training chairs one is "mentor" and one is "medical Represenative". The one who is "mentor" has been so previously, (I have a few staff lists), don't know about the "medical Represenative" if they have done so previously.. But those ladies will be there helping out whether officially on staff or not, like my husband who has only been on staff once, as his job is too demanding for him to be on it more times, but he is a kitchen elf year after year after year, as are a few other "unofficial" kitchen elfs (Husband has the weekends, but not time to be off Thursday/Friday of both weekend courses.)

SR540Beaver- I can see what you are saying that the history of woodbadge and old traditions have helped to establish WB as being an honor to serve on staff. I guess NYLT doesn't have that history.. Also since it is half staffed by the young, they may take the course be involved for another few years and drop scouting until life revolves back to raising their kids in scouting.. So your potential staff is fewer, as the NYLT graduates don't hang around as long as us Adults do.. So I guess Kudos to our CD for NYLT, as he has successfully established some of this tradition and honor to serve into our councils program. qwazse - I agree, just because the training method isn't the way of the Crew, doesn't make it a bad training method for them.