moosetracker

Basement - Last camp out we had 115 people on the Roster I turned into the campmaster....Baloo does not train you to manage that. Basement Packs who have 115 people to go on campouts most likely can find someone in that group with expirence.. Or divy up the expirence, to a few with camping expirence, a few with skills to keep kids entertained etc.. A starter pack that consists of 5 to 10 scouts tops, and a few Adult leaders, may not have the experience.. But they also will not lead 115 people into the forests.. It will more be something like 10 to 25 people.. If they have a few Adults with common sense, and someone BALOO trained, they will some how survive their first attempt, and learn from their mistakes.

AnnLaurelB.. That is a personalization of your districts BALOO training. It wasn't in the BALOO training I took, nor do I remember the instructions in the Syllabus.. They probably just did it knowing you were taking the course and wanted to enjoy your reaction to it. I know what you are saying Basement, but if National gives the Pack their walking papers with the BALOO training then they have a license to camp with the BALOO Training.. NOW.. some packs may be small like ALB's and a newbie to camping may be the only resource they have.. Some may just send a newbie to the training to get the license, while the expirenced leader stays home, and can whip together and lead the Pack camp out, with or without the person who gets trained, but they are on the camping trip holding the permit.. Or they may send their expierenced people to the BALOO training to be bored with everything presented.. It's a crap shoot, what mixture of participants you are going to end up with.. You can suggest those with little expirence to find a scout unit that can loan a few scouts.. But, they have the license and it is up to them what they want to do.. Heck.. I got my drivers license after about spending 5 hours learning to drive, scared the driving instructor into giving me my license by almost killing him in a car accident.. He gave me my license (I think he didn't want me to come back..).. With the advice.. "You pass, but I advise you not to go out on the road alone..". Think of BALOO like that.. (Oh I did get some more driving training.. Got a car.. Then went to by boy friend at the time, and said, "Honey, I have my car, I have my drivers license.. Can you please take me out and teach me how to drive"..)

*Sigh*.. I have an IOLS & OWLS course running on the 21 & 22 .. It has a low turnout.. I think it is because everyone wants to stay home with loved ones for the end of the world rather then be with me getting trained.. Why did they have to go and rain on my parade?? Wouldn't May 23 or 24 been just as good?? (this message really WASN'T edited by a moderator, it was just moved from the other forum) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Per the syllabus Arrival is at around 8:30 to get registered and organized.. Then the course is suppose to run from 9am through to about 4pm.. If you get out early, great.. But as LaurelB states less on ghost stories and .. More on the Basics of camping, and for camping Basics making sure they know it, and are comfortable with the basics is more important then getting out early .. If you have a room full of people like BasementDweller it's early release day.. If not, go until 4pm, letting them try to set up stoves & lanterns, putting the ones who know with the ones who need help..

True - Basement.. Let's make it a week long course. Can't really do set up a tent.. Especially with family style camping, you will not have the basic pup tent.. Woe be the poor soul that borrows a tent from someone with no directions.. Just saying, if you have to spend time on something, best be it things like camping equipment, and the special rules BSA & your council has pertaining to Cub Scout Pack camping.. Rather then campfire program.. When the campfire program is the same type of entertainment they do every month at pack meetings.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Eagle92 - just mentioned the "council approved list for Cub Camp Outs", I just so happen was in the process of asking for it from our council.. I recieved it about an hour ago.. On it was stated something about "Not all of these are approved for winter camping".. Well this prompted a question, as I was told that Packs are not allowed to camp in the winter months.. I recieved the info winter camping is only in heated cabins, so those not approved are the ones with no heated cabins.. But this prompted her to send me another very helpful piece of Council specific paperwork.. The "Cub Scout Outdoor and Camping policies".. In it they had plugged the loop hole for the Webloes G2SS statement of "each youth participant is responsible to an adult" to being one that spells out, the following: A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by his mother or father. If a parent cannot attend, arrangements must be made by the boy's family for another youth's parent (but not the Webelos leader) or another adult relative or friend to be a substitute at the campout. No parent should be responsible for more than one boy other than his or her own. Strangely the Pack Campouts were left with the loophole.. In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to an adult. So one adult could be made responsible for a multitude of kids.. Not part of BALOO, but in it I discovered our Council has tightened the OWLS course to requiring one person on the Webeloes outing needs to have OWLS training.. So I now have to backpeddle what I have told our Cub Scout leaders having just stated the Nationaol policy.. Definately worth asking if your council has something like this, it will make sure you are stating YOUR COUNCILS rules, and not Nationals. Here is a link to ours. http://www.nhscouting.org/openrosters/DocDownload.aspx?id=27769

I as the new District Training Chair have the first BALOO training my district has hosted in ages. (I Resurrected it as I saw it as important) Unfortunatly I now cannot attend and I am depending on my vice chair, and son to do the event.. They were suppose to have a third guy who isn't contacting them, but they have other help for the cooking portion as a pre-planning IOLS is taking place the same time. So these guys will do the cooking part of the round robin and cook the lunches.. Of the BALOO I attended, I know the things I thought were done wrong, or could have been done better.. 1) the Talk on camping equipment was more like if you were a patrol, and just mentioning the stuff.. Then he wasted time talking about how we should all go to Philmont, and his adventures at Philmont.. I would have prefered the talk definatly show the equipment. Show how to light the stove & lantern (which is basic, but may not be to some people.. The to center on ideas for how you organize a group of families to come up with the common equipment the pack needs, like Tarps and stoves & water jugs ropes lanterns.. Then how to find more personal equipment like tents & sleeping bags for some families who do not own any.. (other families with extra, renting, neighboring troops etc..) 2) We got some wrong information.. Like Adults ratio to child is 1 to 5.. I know it is more family oriented, but there is something in G2SS that you can name the responsible adult.. I have had the question into my Council as how they interpret this, and if this is a loophole some packs can use to assign the whole den to the Den Leader only.. I just want their interpretation, because I know many will think they don't need to be family oriented and when hit with it needs to be, will see this statement as a loophole.. 3) I thought too much time was on the campfire program, when the campfire program is basically very similar to things they do for their pack meetings, skits & jokes & run-ons, etc..

Probably something to do with fire saftey. Our old SM at the time of the incident would have probably had the scout up tending the fire for most of the night.. But, after the initial reaction of the incident, and since you are home posting I would imagine there is time between crime and punishment, I guess my suggestion would be that he gave a very, very all encompassing training session to either the younger scouts, his patrol, or the entire troop on fire saftey (depends on the makeup of your troop, and who you think could benefit from the training).. One which he would have to do research on, and which you might ask that he run by you his plans so that you know that it was not something he whipped together in 5 minutes.

Answer is a simple No.. Need??? No.. no one Needs.. Good idea for those who might be at head positions or wanting to someday be in a head position for thier unit the CM, SM, CC.. Great suggestion for those who have got Scouting fever, and can not get enough of it. For some if they want a good leadership course for helping with their careers, this is a good suggestion on how to get one at a fraction of the cost of some of the professional seminars.. From a district Trainer position, yes we promote it, but it is not promoted as mandatory training as other things now are.. It is promoted so that people hear about it, and you may hear it at every course, but that is because you may not be fully trained for your position at the first or second course you take, or not have the time.. But, there may come a time that you hear about it, and it hits at the right time in your life that it becomes something of interest to you.. I also promote the IOLS & OWLS & BALOO training not once, not twice but over & over at round table and through email blasts.. I just sent out my last email blast with less then a week to go before the course, to get the attention of those famous procrastinators that it is now or never to sign up.. But if they don't sign up now, there is always next time, or there is the neighboring districts training, or you can choose not to get the training and risk needing to give up you position in a year or two.. Getting the word out does not mean anyone is saying you need to.. Just if you are interested, here is a reminder of when it is coming up..

Welcome, we always love new blood Be looking forward to hearing from you.

I figured it might have been old, but would not even guess.. That's because it is such a timeless statement, that could have been from any time at least within the 1900's up to today..

ScoutNut - Yes, even the District Exec & District Committee Chair paused when MIB latched on to it.. But in Sept MIB will be 21, so they figured that if he was interested, they were willing to wait.. Our District & the OA also pretty much go into hibernation during the Summer months (although I do think that they will go to camps to help setup tents & do some cleanup this spring.. MIB knew he could not officially take the position until 21.. But he was so excited about it, it did not stop him from jumping in and trying to get a handle on it.. Our District is having a hard time filling positions, with many open for months.. Others I haven't ever seen filled in the whole time I have been with the district (which is about a year..).. I guess they figured, having the position vacant with a known person ready to take the reins in the Fall, was better than having a vacant position.. But really I think the DE & DCC will now need to do some back peddling to fix a public relation snafu... Our old DE was known to take over the appointment of things the DCC should have control over and the committee & DCC was in a huge uprising over his mis-stepping his boundaries.. My first District meeting was quite a shock as a newbie in the middle of this uprising at its height. The DE was moved out of our district before my second District meeting.. Currently the DE & DCC (both new) have a great working relationship, but I think through the DCC the DE, may still be having his hands in where it should not be.. The way this replacement went down may start the uprising up again, but in some ways I think it is miscommunication.. Most likely the DCC does not know this is not appointed by the committee as the other positions are. I know the current CA and he is very unresponsive to getting a hold of.. He once said he would do a training for me, then I emailed and called and emailed and called.. No response.. I ended up replacing him, as I figured he didn't want to do it, and was just expecting me to take the hint by his non-responsiveness.. He did finally call me about a week before the training, lucky I replaced him, as he stated he didn't remember telling me he would do the training, and was busy that day.. When I took this job, I got a list of who my trainers where. From this list 50% of them never responded to my trying to contact them.. Therefore I crossed them off my list.. From my experience, I think a lot of volunteers simply abandon their job without the courtesy of telling someone so that they can make plans.. They just stop responding to your attempts to contact them. Frankly, it will be best that MIB, step out of the middle of this fight, not take any sides, and stay friendly with all parties concerned.. By the time that happens, if there is an open position in the end, I think MIB will then be 21...

Ok, I'm going to revel myself as I directed Troop82NH to come to this forum for the answers. Reason being, he asked it of me, I asked it of the Council Training Chair, we received the canned answer of "You must follow the G2SS" as if it were the Holy Grail.. Realizing climbing is more serious then ignoring the laser tag rules, I wanted to see what you guys have to say.. I know that the G2SS is only a guide, and should be looked to as excellent reference, but not something that if not followed your insurance is null & void, because it is just a guide, with no ties to our insurance. Except for a small list of no, nos like sky diving, which are now not in bold face so harder to figure out what that list is.. It sounds like this troop has been looking to the safety of their scouts during their planning. They did not just decide Lets go rock climbing, this weekend, and run of to "Widow Maker" Gorge.. They found themselves 3 experienced climbers. They have spent a few months with their troop meetings working on climbing skills and also going to a climbing wall (which as you say is not the same, but when you have to begin somewhere, is a beginning), then had plans for several trips working out small and building in experience.. I just hate them recieving a canned answer.. I did send something off to a young adult that was in my troop who is currently going to college for some sort of outdoor adventure guide and who loves rock climbing, I would be shocked if he is not certified, but I do not know what he has lined up for summer work.. Normally he lines up guide work at an outdoor youth program. So from reading your responses, due to the seriousness of the activity, you guys are understandably hesitant to just say.. Yeah, go out there.. Have fun.. I know Beavah is the first one to shoot down the G2SS as being anything more than just a guide.. If he is hesitant, then I would listen to him.. But what I am reading is that it is due to the serious of the event, and your lack of personally knowing the 3 adults with the 20 years experience, and what their skills and experience is.. This is understandable as it is a serious event.. But you are not pointing to the words in G2SS and saying that, that is the final word.. Troop82 I will let you know if I hear from my friend with the son who is I am sure is certified.. Do not know if we have a Council Climbing Director, but you can look into that, he may take the time to look at what skills your 3 instructors have that would make them a fine choice, or may not have the time, so push back to the canned answer of G2SS.. The other thing I would suggest is going to round Table and asking around to see if anyone there knows of someone with the certification in our district whom you may be able to talk into helping you out. I was hoping for better news for you, but I trust in the advice from these guys.. Beavah is a well know charactor on these boards, and gives us the lawyer perspective when needed.. Norules is newer, but has offered some worthy advice..

At least now they know they can not expect it to be a one women show.. Good Luck.. Keep us posted..

in the original thread, ScoutBox mentioned traveling for training.. I sent back that my trainers all live south will grumble to travel midway in our long district for training, and will not travel to the top north middway might be about 1.5 hrs, from north peak to south peak about 3 hours.. He returns indicating his travels to district things can be 8 hours, and council things at 11 hours some travel for training he indicates is a two day drive (That can't be a council training??).. Maybe Scoutbox is in the military or something and I don't recall hearing that, because he talks of someone in his troop flying from the Philipines to Japan for training.. So Scoutbox may be a rarity and not within the confines of a Council/district.. Still it got me to wondering.. How large is your Council & district?? I know the break up in distance of a council/district seems to depend on the density of the population. Like our council is pretty much our entire state of NH (a few token towns are in a MA council because they said the entire state was a monopoly for the council??). While the state is dense in the southern portion it is sparse in the northern portion, Massachusetts though has at least 3 or more councils for roughly the same square mileage (give or take).. Our district is the largest district of the Council because we serve the sparse Northern section, other districts serve an area of about 30 miles span..

scoutbox - I am the District Training chair for a very long district. I would love to give the Northern parts of the district training closer, but to do so I need people willing to be trainers that live in the north.. No one will do so, so the best I can offer is some of my training in in the middle of the area, some is in the Southern where my trainers all live.. Problem is that for Training starting at 8am.. Trainers have to be there 1 hour earlier, to prep and be ready for people who come early. To be at a place at 7 am but need to drive 1.5 to 2 hours to be there means getting up around 5am.. On top of that you have to find a place that you can get free of charge to train in within an area that you know nothing at all about.. My trainers for my comming up training are complaining about haveing to drive to the middle of our district. Because of the time they have to get up to get there.

Welcome Thank-you very much for your service in the Army and now in Scouting.. Hopefully scouting will be an easier mission.. I am sure our scouts will be great, it's some of our parents who might have you re-enlisting.. (just joking)(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Well Cross - This forum is an example of some of the questions, and those that will support you or not support you.. So means asking yourself if you can withstand the criticism.. Yes, you should have as COR, if not CC been all over the SM an the standard of program that he runs, and you with the CO could have choosen to remove the scout after the vandalism incident.. Yet I disagree on the time to not sign was on the Approval of the Eagle project. The approval is for the project, and if you feel it is worthwhile.. It is not about the scout at that time.. The Eagle application (which I believe is what Cross meant to say).. Is about if he met the requirements, and is a correct place to decide if you in good faith can sign that he has met the requirements.. (not just on paper, but in deed..)(although I agree there were many other correct places to stop the kid in his tracks.. Educate the SM & Committee of the level of excellence you want them to hold the scouts to.. etc..) Me.. If I do not feel right about signing I would not.. I would stand my ground and state my case respectfully, and admit my mistakes for not catching this sooner.. But, if it is overturned and he get the Eagle, then calmly accept that the board who made this decision had some good reasons to do so.. Because it is a 50/50 shot.. But still I would not sign .. Why.. 1) The anxiety of uncertainty you give this kid may give him pause to think about his actions.. (Maybe).. If there is enough of a bump, he will need to work to show some leadership to defend himself well. The board will ask him the questions, not his father, he must stand before them and answer wisely.. 2) It will show the scouts in the troop, that there is consequnces for not living by the scout oath & law, but just going through the motions. It will allow them to have more pride in the award if they earn it. 3) It will give you a starting point to turn around and start demanding from the SM and all adult leaders that things are changing and the bar is being raised.. Then you can start working out how not to get stop scouts sooner who are not meeting the expectations. 4) You can still look your self in the mirror, because you stood up for your own principles and values.. I disagree with the statement, that maybe he is not worthy of the Eagle now, but might grow into it later.. So give it to him.. I have been told (and agree), that later in life a person who made Eagle can go down the wrong trail.. Drugs, murder etc.. only years after earning the award.. Once an Eagle always an Eagle is more in telling the Eagle that it is expected of them to stay on the right path, and be worthy of the title as they continue in life.. But the award is the award earned in youth.. You don't present it in hopes that they may someday "make good".. You present it because "Today" you are worthy of it.. Now go forth and fly right.. No wonder that we have so many unworthy Eagles out there.. Looking at past board comments that the BOR should just be a rubber stamp, the SM is the gateway.. the SM or designated person to sign off advancement, should do so when the do something for the first time.. Not when they show proficiency at it.. Scout Spirit should be signed off it the scout shows up, regardless of his actions, it is just attendance.. Now I know these are things that have been debated to pieces with many defending the need to require more then rubber-stamping.. But there are many who just believe in the rubber-stamp system.. It creates a loophole large enough to sail the QE2 through.. No wonder units find themselves sitting with a scouts Eagle application and saying to themselves.. Here is a scout truely unworthy.. And again, we get the rubber stampers.. Let him go through.. You should have stopped him at all the other points, although we rubber stampers would have told you that you can't do that either.. (Or maybe we got the early bird rubber stampers that are at war against the end game rubber stampers).. Still, the what to do and when to do it, and who can do it.. Is a cauldren of debate..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Hopefully the day B4 he is 18 is due to his just completing his project or merit badges just under the wire, and not due to you sitting on the paperwork for 3 months as you debated this issue. There is an appeal process the boy can go throught when you do not sign. You letting him know your decision and letting him know that he has a right to contact his council and go through this appeal process ASP is fair to him.. Now, don't be surprised that the council will come down on you and ask you to think about it and reconsider.. This is because it is easier for them then dealing with an angry parent's ranting and raving, and going through the long appeal process.. You can just explain what was said here, they may try to make you reconsider, but just let them know you are fine with them going through the appeals process and makeing there own decision.. Be prepared to fill out paperwork, maybe show up to a few meetings on the subject etc. So the appeals board has all the facts in front of them to base their opinion on.. If the council does not approve his Eagle, he can then go through the process with National.. You should not have to resign over the issue. You can show the boys of your troop that there are consequences for his behavior.. If he does get his Eagle, it is not your troop who awarded it to him. Your hands are clean.. They may or may not over turn the decision. It will be up to them to weigh if the troop was wrong in letting him get this far without letting him know he was failing.. Or if they will see his behavior and lack of leadership for his own project as a reason to uphold your decision.

Beavah about the middle of the page.. K1986 - talked about speaking to the problem dad but after this he made the comment.. when I laid out the idea that from now on parents would not be part of the den meetings they took their child and left. I was approached by two other parents asking what the fuss was and I explained the situation (as much as they needed to know) and informed them that the group was going to be more independent of parent hovering and they also both left before the meeting was over quite angry. The CM sent out an email tonight explaining that next weeks meeting would be a parent/leader meeting only, no kids... He may have only told the problem parent that from now on no parents would be at den meetings, and another group of parents they would need to stop hovering.. But unless he was planning to lie to the problem parent, his plan was to kick all parents out of the den meeting.. He unfortunately got this idea from ScoutNuts advise.. Parents should not be attending Webelos den meetings unless they are the one in charge of running that specific meeting. The Webelos should be preparing for Boy Scouts by getting more independent. Let ALL parents know that, from now on, den meetings are for Webelos only. The only exception would be a parent who is acting as a Webelos Activity Badge Counselor for that meeting. This was more what I was focusing on rather then the problem parent when I said you can't kick out the parents.. (Meaning the normal parents..) and went through the thought process that you need to bring them on board with being part of the solution, rather then tell them they are the problem..

Ok you can tell disruptive parent they are not welcome as in the case of the one dad, and I realize the lighter was just an example story, and probably you think it is big based on all the other history which are causing the other parents to not want to take their sons to the same event he is at.. If his actions are causing people to remove themselves and their sons from the program due to him, he is a big enough issue to think about it.. But, you can't remove all the other parents.. those you originally labeled as For the most part they have a good group dynamic and we get alot of stuff done. I also have very dedicated parents. For the simple reason that other Webeloes dens in America have achieved this seperation, so you expect them to also.. Hovering parents are different then "parent turds" (as beavah wishes to label them..) They all have been thinking for years they have been helpful and supportive and that you appreciated their help.. You are hurting some good folks feelings by telling them they are nothing but alot of dead weight, and extra baggage..

You may need to re-propose a "weaning" process at your next meeting, trying to set up timelines of things, and may never get the parents to not attend meetings, but not be hovering parents.. 5yearscouter is right you cannot demand the parents no longer attend. We cannot do so in boy scouts, even with OA, which is a secret honor society, parents are highly discouraged from attending, but they cannot bar them from attending if they want to.. Sorry the advice you got earlier in this post, lead to a mis-interpretation by you, due to some important things left out.. The weaning of parents should be done gradually over the years, and not be painful.. It should be done so gradual that the parents just do it themselves.. Tigers the parents always there, hovering.. Wolfs - parents are usually there but not hovering, unless involved with difficult projects.. Bears - the parents maybe there for beginning or ending of meetings, or every other meeting, but they start letting go.. Webloes most parents not at den meetings (as long as you have a 2nd adult leader in attendance), but some may be there yet totally removed from the interaction of the meeting.. Our troop always had parents stay, but they are either watching from benches on the sides, or in a separate room nearby talking.. We were one of these parents because it was a 30 minute drive to the troop.. For a 1.5 hour meeting, there is not point going home.. That would mean 2 hours on the road driving for 2 round trips, so that we could spend hour at home.. Sometimes we would go off shopping and return though. You no longer have 4 to 5 years to gradually and naturally ween.. You have one year, and can do some weening, and leave the rest of the weening in the troops hands (which they should have some experience with also..) Best for you to back-off from the my way or the highway stance, and change tactics to being a group effort between you and the parents in getting these kids self-reliant enough to succeed in Boy Scouts.. Re-group, apologize and explain it as the fact that you just realized you were far behind where you should be with the scouts self-reliance development, and incorrectly mis-judged the effect of attempting to bring them up to speed of where they should be in such a quick motion. But, because it is important for the boys to success in boy scouts some if not all of this needs to occur before they bridge this is going to be something that you and the parents need to concentrate on.. Let them know that advancement wise and age wise of the boys could cross over by the beginning of next year, but self-reliance wise they are not ready to cross-over and succeed.. In other words your parents are most likely hovering because they want their boys to succeed.. Appeal to their desire to have their children succeed.. Steer this change and make it less traumatic and fearful for the parents because they are in on the design of how this will happen.. This is where your children must be before they cross-over.. I need you guys to work with me to get them there.. Work with me here and help me get them there.. What are your ideas on how we can gradually do this, and be ready by next March.. Allow them to feel important because they are a part of the solution. Remind parents who do not care because their boys are not going on to boy scouts that a) This is what Webelos is all about to move from a family program to a self reliant program.. This is Webelos.. b) event if the boys are not going to become boy scouts, this is the age for their boys to learn self-reliance safely in a controlled environment rather than out on the streets.. I dont know how scary the streets are for your inner city.. Some are scary, some are not.. But the opportunity and tools that will help a parent teach their children self-relience in a safe environment, to learn to make good decisions, the right decisions using their own judgement, should appeal to most parents.

OK guys - I believe Renax is looking at a Tiger Cub Scout Elective as follows.. Get the Word Out With your den, make up a PSA skit to tell people about Tiger Cubs. Renax - you may assume all of us are at cub scout level & focused on the same electives you are.. Fact is we are not.. Many of us are what you would call "old geeser".. My son is 20 years old. He was a Tiger 15 years ago.. Guarenteed the electives were different back then, even if they were not, 15 years is a long time to expect me to remember something.. Still once I figured out PSA.. I was at a loss of what you wanted.. Did they need to analyze PSA's that are in current commercials and figure out why you have to take them with a grain of salt, because you can't believe all that you hear.. Did they have to go and visit a set that was creating a PSA like a local car dealership?.. etc. etc.. All that we ask is if we need more clarification you provide it.. That being said in the contact of them making their OWN commercial for Tigers cubs.. Why must YOU come up with the idea?? I organized Odyssey of the Mind.. This was a play the kids (I had a group around 1st - 3rd grade).. Had to come up with their own skit.. I stayed faithful and did not interfer, except to give them team building, and constantly do things like video so they could see themselves, or hold one of them out so that he could watch everyone else 3rd person.. On the day of compitition you knew others were skits written & directed by adults.. My feeling was my guys had the oddest performance but I was more proud of them because they did it all themselves. If this is not really going to air, then let them have the fun of figuring out their own commercial.. I am going back to when I had to learn about commercials and do one in High School.. I still think it would be good for them to look at the style of different commercial.. Those that are serious and give you straight information.. Like a public relation commercial of how a company is working to help the environment, or look for alternative fuel.. Or the BP commercial about the oil spill.. The commercials with silly jingles or saying so you can remember them.. My jingles I remember from way back.. "I am the Frito Bandito" jingle, or Morton Salt - When it rain it pours.. The goofy commercials like the tidy bowl man.. The abstract commercials which you have no idea what it's about until maybe the end shot... (Maybe) Etc.. Etc.. Then after studying them they can figure out the best style for them.. (I hope not serious or abstract.. But one never knows).. Then let them think of what to do for props and costumes.. Get a video recorder and record them.. Sounds like you want us to figure out a script for you.. Some may give you ideas.. But I think give the Tigers some info on what different types of commercials and letting them work on their own idea will be much more educational, meaningful and fun for them.

Seattle might have approached the subject kinder.. (Seattle he's a newbie.. play nice at least until post # 10!).. And that goes for the rest of you who followed, with some heckling.. But Renax - People can be honest here, and sometimes you can interpret the written word a little harsher then the writer intended.. And to be honest, I saw this in the morning, didn't know what it was, so decided to leave it for more knowledgable people.. This post could have sat with no answers if everyone did as I did.. So thanks to Seattle bringing up what no one else was willing to admit, you are now getting some response to your question.. If Eamonn has it right and it means Public Service Announcements..

HawkUH60 - The problem is that many troops run a very weak patrol method, many times not boy run at all.. It helps alot for these boys to see what a strong patrol method is like and bring it back to their troops.. I don't understand why they would remove the patrol method.. Wood badge has had Pack, troop & Venturing Leaders in it for years and they still run with the patrol method for the majority of the course (they are cubs until day 1 lunch, and I think the last day when things are winding down they are Crew..).. The whole idea is to quickly get the groups to working as a team.. The majority of crew I know may be youth lead, but it takes alot to get them to work as a team, where as the patrol method get them into teamwork alot sooner..