moosetracker

Hmmm.. I always thought the cub roundtable had a book by council telling you what you were to discuss, but don't know what that was as I am not in cub scouts.. Then the Boy Scouts round table had no book, and they had to find things to discuss.. I am interested in hearing about ideas for the BS roundtable break out also.. Not for me, but for my son (MoosetheItalianBlacksmith).. Who has been on the board before, and if you remember has been looking for a nitch in district.. The OA guy if you remember did not work out.. For some reason the DE didn't want to put him in popcorn, I think he had a person in mind for the position.. Anyway, looks like the key 3 are interested in making him the BS roundTable commissioner (or co-commissioner).. We have someone, but the attendance is getting low, because the SM's who use to come are fed up that nothing is planned. So since no one wants to tackle fireing her, they are looking at giving her a partner.. Son is a good choice as he will make his organizing around her look like youthful exhuberance, rather then a power-play.. (at least we hope.) Anyway - one thing I had suggested to him is to discuss the Troop Leader Training.. (Which no-one in our district does, and few do the older JLT either).. And working with Scouts with special needs (This could be a BS or CS related topic). We have a women in our district who is trained in in and did a topic on it a Scouting University.. Then I was thinking that he could go to websites with scouting university agendas listed, and some of the titles might give him an idea or two.. Example of my surfing for cub scouts is 1) Criteria for Assessing Whether an Activity Is Age-Appropriate 2) Dont lose your Scouts and Leaders, Plan Summertime Fun! 3) Managing Homesickness: Prevention and Treatment 4) How to control the focus of your Scouts For BS or CS: 3) How to Deal with Difficult People 4) CPR certification (Why not run a certification course at roundtable??) 5) Economical Event planning.. (in tune with the economical times) Really if you leaf through enough course directories for different Council's University of Scouting, there are titles that could spark your imagination. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Getting tired after having volunteered for x amount of time with your own unit, and x amount of time at the district level is one thing.. Getting tired when you haven't even volunteered 1/2 an hour of your time at anything is another.. We always do our camporees hike-a-thons and other events where we have a volunteer at district level willing to give advice & support for a unit (sometimes 2 small units work together or the OA) that steps up to be the organizer of the function. The district committee many times is similar to unit committees.. You have a few dedicated volunteers, but they will only pick up so much, they can't do it all.. No one else wants to step up and help, and they have the same tough time trying to involve other volunteers.. Therefore, if you don't have enough volunteers things will get dropped or you find a way to force it onto the units in the district to help pick up and help if they want the program.

TwocubDad - the spinoff option is a link in the bottom right corner of each post. So if someone rights something in one thread you want to spin-off from, you use the spin-off link on their post.. Then remember to click on the "Which forum" dropdown, because it does not default into the forum the original post is at, and if you don't choose something, it gives you a wicked error. Anyway.. The problem is definately two fold.. At the Council level - National only cares about quanity not quality, so they strick hard in evaluation with only looking at quanity and drive the DE's who may have started out wanting to do quality into slowly conforming to the quanity mentality. It is bad for the program, and will help to drive the quanity down in the long run.. The problem with the parents is that the kids that were brought up by parents to be self-centered and feel they are entitled.. Are now becoming the parents.. They do not want to give, they want to recieve, and feel they are entitled.. The weird thing is that although BSA is a youth oriented program trying to work fun for the kids in, it is based on core values like community service if the parents want to instill these good values in their kids, don't they believe that those values first and fore most come from them watching what their parents do?.. If their parents are not helping in the community, are not kind, or thoughtful etc.. But rather ditch our shirk anything that might force them to do anything for others, or is related to responsibility.. Then how much value do you think the program will have on the kids?.. Do what I say, not what I do??.. Yeah right.

Greeting noname of the no help Pack.. Who are you CM or CC? Besides you is there anyone else? I know you have no DL's.. but committee? Assistant CM's??.. Of 11 kids how did you get a Pinewood of 60?? Even if that large the best you had for turnout of parents were 22.. Excluding you & the one Webelos DL 20.. And that is given the unreality of everyone haveing a 2 parent home.. So really your pool of volunteers is maybe more like 10 to 15.. The honest truth is few outside of your pack will get involved.. There may be a few who love kids.. But to motivate outsiders there needs to be a great program, and parents on board.. Few people want to spend time bailing out a sinking ship for those who are too self-centered to at least make an effort to try for themselves.. You may be trying, but all your deadbeat other parents are not.. Truthfully it is not a program that will attract outsiders with no kids in the program themselves.. But.. If you want to try, who is your COR?.. If a church or school you can appeal to the church members, or to the members of the PTA.. Otherwise.. It is not just doing a grand speech where everyone listens and expects the other guy to take up the reins. It is figuring out who would be a good canidate and going up to them in a one-on-one to ask.. Or you can ask with cubbie around, and hope the boy will turn and look at Daddy or Mommy and say "Wow.. Can you be our Den Leader? that would be awsome!.." They may say "No", but it is harder for them to say NO, with a one on one.. Much easier for them to be asked within a crowd and not raise their hand. Because the ship is sinking, few want to volunteer, for fear you are not asking for one item.. But you will then try to reel them in to way too much that they can handle.. They do not want to be the one forced to hold up the sinking ship.. So you must ask them for one thing, and let them know that one thing is all they will be asked to do. And mean it.. Figure out what you really really need, and what you can let go of.. And get people to do the neccessary and let go of the other things. When folks complain hand them the registration form. "Thanks for volenteering to take that on".. If it is you only, your pack may be taking it's dying breath and be to late to revive. You can try, but if NO ONE, will help.. Pick your son up and take him to another pack where he can have a great program.. You can only do so much. But, your son deserves a great program, and it can not come on the back of one person holding up a bunch of deadbeats.. Give it your best shot, if it does not work out look for the door.. Look up the user AnnLaurelB who is having similar issues.. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=311848#id_311848 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=311875#id_311875 Also there is a thread called "The one man show" going on right now.. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=318527 Bottom line you are not alone.. But once you get to only having one or two people you are in serious trouble, and it is very hard to pull the sinking ship up at this point.

No.. No.. No.. Lupines is the flower.. Professor Lupin.. no "e" is the werewolf of Harry Potter.. OGE - never heard of that poem or a lupin as money.. But you don't have no "e" neither! I guess Robin Hood stole Dennis's thunder. So no festival for our cubbies, and no money for you either, although if you see Dennis Moore send him my way, I could benefit from his generosity.. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Now don't get all sulky on me.. I was just trying to lead the conversation back to what the OP actually asked.. As stated all ideas so far are good for trying to get the troop to start thinking about doing things as patrols outside of the troop.. qwazse - Your *BAD* example is why there really is no *Good* way to address this issue with a team building excercise.. Because you would have to make "fake" patrols & pretend.. You walk away with nothing benificial.. It will not get you that "Ah..ha.." molment. But go back to the origianl question asked by the OP.. Our troop runs a TLT training each year for the boys that need training for their positions. (This is the 3 segament one long day, or 3 seprate days broken out by segments, or a weekend campout with time for some fun outside of the training added in.) is the need for a patrols to consider having patrol meetings/activities outside the normal troop meetings (OP wants them to not work as patrols within a troop meeting or troop event.. But as Patrols outside of troop meeting/events..) Anyone know of any games/activities that demonstrate the value of working in smaller groups (patrol) vs larger (troop) to demonstrate the value of the patrol method? (OP wants a game or activity.. ie.. short period time, team building excercise. That will teach them the value of working in patrols even though this is done inside of a troop event (the TLT).. And the whole troop is not there just the youth leaders.. within this team building excercise for patrol method it should occur to them the value of not working as a patrol at a troop event (which I assume they do).. But the value of working as a patrol outside of the troop meeting/events) The answer to the OP is that within a TLT training, with a short team building excercise.. My feeling is you can not do it.. But with the suggestions made so far, that outside of the TLT training, you can use these suggestions to get the idea across.. Now you boys can all stop pouting and can continue to give wonderful advice for ideas to be used outside of the TLT training event.

Tell them you will freeze some peaches then when they come visit in the cooler weather you can have a family frozen peach festival!!! That's ok.. I was surprised yesterday, we have a Lupine festival in New Hampshire. I was thinking it was because our state flower were lupines. I am sure I remember the festival being billed that way.. Co-worker said I was wrong.. She was right we have the Lilac.. I guess it is a flower, but always think of the Lilac as a bush, not a flower.. That's ok, my co-worker who corrected me on the Lupine not being our state flower was sure it was because it is the State flower of Maine, found out she was wrong.. Maine is the pinecone.. (ever seen a pinecone flower??).. No.. Texas is the Lupine, but not the Lupine as we know them which are like colorful petals shaped like corn nuggets.. Their Lupine is totally different..

Really on further thought, none of these ideas would work for TLT, even time permited.. That is because TLT is only done for the boys who have Leadership positions SPL, ASPL, PL, Troop guides etc.. It is not done for the whole unit.. Therefore the whole troop is not at a TLT training in order to break up and work as a patrol.. Nope, the more I think on it, with both time needed to do something and the fact you have no patrol groups to do it with, TLT just doesn't lend itself to this type of training.. But the ideas & suggestions given are good for giving to the Patrols as normal troop excercises and nudging them in the right direction.

Yeah.. That's what I said.. But, the OP is looking to get the patrols to function outside of the troop and do things together outside of the troop.. So the old style patrol camping that was valid up until 1 month or 2 ago would have worked for what the OP wanted, now single patrol with 2 adult leaders will work, but I don't think troop style camping with patrols in seprate patrol areas will, as that is still troop organized.. Just wanted to clarify.. But, again.. A TLT could be done in a day, stretched to a weekend.. Two different styles of camping would stretch it to at least two weekends or more based on when the patrols go off on their camping outing, and if the adult leadership can be spread to accomidate leaders with each patrol, or if the SM & ASM have to book about 3 or 4 weekends out of their schedule to accomplish this..

Yes TLT is Troop Leader Training. Shortridge - remember - camping as patrols is no longer permited.. (Unless 2 deep Adult leaders go with you at least..) But they could do the 2 deep, or camp far apart.. But, all that we have proposed so far is not a quick game that Trabucchi can use in a TLT training.. But honestly, it really is something that is not conducive to a 1 hour game..

Fehler - It is a great conservation project, and is a great idea. I do not want to detract from that.. But, it should not be billed as a Leave-No-Trace.. The two are entirely different things. Leave-No-Trace is obviously leaving the landscape as you have found it as much as you possibly can, you will be definatly not doing that. Just don't want to confuse the cubbers as to what Leave-No-Trace is all about, otherwise you may see them cutting down branches from trees and thinking it is the Leave-no-Trace method.

Sorry resqman isn't any eloquent then you.. Stero-typing for women will be around for much longer then stero-typing blacks, muslims, mexicans and others. Sorry.. School is not feminine.. It just is and you will find few of both genders who will excel or hate it, and the majority that just tolerate it as it is an necessity they way most of us tolerate a 9 to 5 job.. Boys can be readers or not.. Girls can be readers or not.. Boys can like bugs, Girls can like bugs.. Boys can gossip just as well as girls can.. etc, etc.. But there are some out there who will still put girls in pink dress and deny them the opportunity to play baseball just because it is not feminine.. I do hope you don't have any girls, for I would feel sorry for them if they are not the type to like frills and lace and don't wish to play with dolls.

I don't have a game or something for TLT.. But a suggestion to get them to start working outside the normal troop meeting. I knew one troop that had 3 group troop meetings a month still working in patrols with the troop meetings but one common meeting room. They then had one meeting a month where the troop did not meet in the common room. Each patrol met at someones house or other designated place, with some task they are assigned. If giving up a group meeting once a month will not work well into your plans. You might try it for a meeting or two where you ask the patrols to meet to organize a skill or an outing, and meet the next week to exchange skills or ideas.. Sort of jump start the ball rolling of meeting outside of the troop setting. I guess when my husband grew up the Troop was similar to a cub setup.. The troop met only once a month as a group, otherwise the patrol meetings were at someones house.. His was the house that his patrol always met at.. Was this the case with others of you who were in scouts a long time ago (back in the age of the dinasaur)? Edited to note: Just noticed you are in Nashua NH. I am in Weare NH (Wannalancit District).. Any chance I could get invited the next time you do a TLT? I am District Training chair and we were assigned to try out the new to be released TLT last year. But, I found NO ONE in our district does the TLT program.. I took a small course at Scouting University on it, but still do not feel compentent to instruct our Troops on how to lead a TLT as is was basically just the team building excercises, and did't focus on much else from the syllabus.. I would love to monitor a troop that really knows how to run the TLT ..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Greetings, Things are always changing, some changes good others not so good, and the decision of whether they are good or not vary depending on who you talk to, but this forum is not shy to give you it's opinion of everything and anything. Welcome

momof2cubs - What makes you think girls want to sit for hours and study, don't like to bang things, and disect Owl poop?.. Maybe you state boys can cook and sew, but you make it perfectly clear that girls can't like boy type activities.. In truth there are alot more tomboys out there, girls who like to tinker with cars & play football, then there are boys who enjoy sewing.. And the cooking part is really neutral gender.. Many boys can get interested in Dutch Oven cooking, or other camp cooking.. And the best chefs usually do turn out to be Men.. They may have started there interest as boys. Not to say the Boy scouts should spend a patrol meeting baking cookies, but they can do great cooking competitions between patrols & other Troops while on a campout.. We have gone down the road on other threads about co-ed Boy Scouts.. I know there are some who don't want it, and I can understand some arguement that the girls mature faster and can more easily take on leadership positions, that boys might sit back and not do if not neccessary.. But, as for the girls will sissy-fy the program.. A) BSA is being sissy-fy without girls being in the program due to the parents fears and tendency to sue for a small cut.. B) Venturing is not sissy-fied.. C) The British Scouting program has gone co-ed as has other countries and has not been sissy-fied either..

I guess I did not take away from that story that the uniform is to get photos in the paper.. Maybe that Eagle92 likes the PR that the uniform offers the unit, but lookig at the story minus that one sentence, I took away that the uniform gives you the image that everyone wants to see of a boy scout.. If the unit was in full uniform, they would not stand out as the sharper better image, and the group as a whole would get the recognition.

I do not believe anyone from our troop has asked for the flag from the capital, as they recieve the flag that has been used by our troop (and our troop gets a new flag after each ECOH).. Holds much more meaning for our boys.. Now that I have heard about the multiple flags raised up by a crane so that "technically" they have been flown over the capital.. Well, our patrol flag means alot more to our boys.. I think two boys had an Eagle court 2 weeks apart from each other giving the 2nd scout a flag only used twice, but still used. I guess if we ever had an ECOH for two boys they may have to use two flags and swap one out for the other to get both in use before the ECOH took place.

ScoutNut if you click on the "more photos" you will see a mini slide show that does show a few pictures of the girls one labeled "May Weah, 10, paints her Pinewood Derby car..." .. I think they are using whatever uniforms have gotten donated as some are in cub scout uniforms, some in boy scout uniforms, none are in venturing uniforms.. Interesting stuff..

Really it does not need to be "God" they have a belief in, but that of a higher being.. So Allah, God, some alien being whatever.. Here are some websites on it. http://www.scouting.org/about/factsheets/operating_orgs/islamic.aspx http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/02-928.pdf Good luck, and I am sure they will be a great asset to your pack learning about diversity.

Sorry, my presentation is totally from the Woodbadge syllabus.. I have the one called "Leading Change".. (Which if anyone has ideas on how to expand and stretch out the concept for another 15 minutes, I would love to hear).. Also due to the who concept, where I want my audience not only hear about change, but get a sense of change with my power point slides not being uniformed, so they never know what will happen in the next slide.. (Sort of a controlled sense of change from the entire presentation, with a different presentation I would use the pictures, but probably find a common presentation of words on top, picture on bottom, or words on right - picture on left or something).. Anyway mine in not only heavy with pictures but I shake it up with an animated gif of the timeline of BSA in history, a small 1 minute audio on the cheshire cat (with flashing pictures of Alice & the cat), and a film clip about 1 minute long on a person the syllabus has us do a spotlot on.. With all that it is large and will not email out to someone, and since it is Woodbadge, even if I had a website (which I don't) putting it out might be a spoiler for those who have yet to take woodbadge (sort of like giving out the secrets behind the "game of life". But to give you an example I took two of your slides and looked for some pictures on the internet I might have added to the slide. 1. The Boy-Led Troop and Living the Scout Oath and Law.. Here is pictures I get when I put the words into the search bar & look under images.. There are a few in here that show a boyscout with the words of the Scout Oath behind him.. I might have used any of them for a visual.. http://www.google.com/search?q=Scout+oath+and+law&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7TSNA&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=0yjiTdbaJMvPgAfVvdyeBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAwQ_AUoAQ&biw=1362&bih=533 2. empowering boys to be leaders.. Sad to say this was a harder search.. Alot of them showed adults leading, or just Boy scouts standing around or lined up for a group photo around their project.. But here are two images that I might use.. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0008/B6/3E/B63ED61FD5DA5211568CAA_Large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://findallvideo.com/tag/100-word-story&usg=__j9zdhFkUyYdT8u2OnwT4tOUTGOI=&h=240&w=320&sz=22&hl=en&start=133&zoom=1&tbnid=yJyM1pJJgc1WzM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=154&ei=JCviTZeEJ8fUgQe_p_3CBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3DBSA%2Bscouts%2Bleadership%2Bprojects%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7TSNA%26biw%3D1345%26bih%3D533%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=73&page=6&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:133&tx=38&ty=81 http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://venturecrew63.com/images/flag_burning.jpg&imgrefurl=http://stacyjmt.com/pics/img/flag%2520ceremony%2520boy%2520scouts%2520for%2520burning%2520a%2520flag-45023.html&usg=__l1bE9tBgAm82BKEd_sZuGY4l4Eo=&h=532&w=640&sz=74&hl=en&start=244&zoom=1&tbnid=QQo_Gg_lZAMU9M:&tbnh=109&tbnw=145&ei=uyviTdGcOY2dgQfY54G_Bg&prev=/search%3Fq%3DBSA%2Bscouts%2Bleadership%2Bprojects%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7TSNA%26biw%3D1345%26bih%3D533%26tbm%3Disch&chk=sbg&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=359&page=10&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:244&tx=51&ty=32

I liked the patrol Method PDF.. Alot of How I think of the patrol method.. The powerpoint was fine too, but harder for us to get into as it is the points, and then you (I would guess) have elaboration for the points in the powerpoint.. At least I would hope, as no one likes to be read to.. I had to do a powerpoint for a 1 hour woodbadge presentation I have to give, in my rehersal I gave it in 40 minutes and have to like add 15 minutes on, and hope for some dialog between the participants will fill in the rest of the time.. But I have like 25 slides for the hour speech which by some peoples calculations is a lot for a one hour presentation.. People are different with their styles, I am sure.. Mine are of few words but lots of pictures which remind me of what I need to talk about.. But I did add the words, because some remember by words and some remember by picture, and some remember by doing (but mine is not a doing presentation).. Except for the flowcharts (which still are more wordy then picture).. You have no pictures. So I would guess you are more the type who learns by words, but, I would suggest you do add some pictures for those of us who benefit an learn through the visual picture, better then the words. I look at the pictures and listen to the presenter and the two help me retain and comprehend, and rearly read the words on the slides. So my presentation, if I posted it, would be much harder for you to comprehend because ALOT is verbally done by me.. But, I do nod to your style of learning and will add the words to help your style of learner..

With my son around 13 yo - The troop went to Martha's vineyard. There is a place for boy scouts to camp there, They rented bikes and biked to the far side where they camped. Well son bikes but not fast, so they figured that it was a straigh shot to the campsite, and he was left to get there by himself.. (OK not the scout way..) Anyway he get's himself lost.. Stops at a nice old ladies house who (I think fed him milk & cookies) but I am sure got the police to help him locate the troop. The policeman puts my sons bike in the trunk of the car and everyone at camp first notices the spotlights that my son was playing with while they drive up to the campsite. I don't know where the SM was, but not at camp but he got word though walkie talkie that my son (garbled message) police (garbled message.) He is shocked it is my son that got in trouble with the local law enforcement, but comes booking it all worried.. SM was a state trooper.. Anyway at the next COH, the SM had made him a "get out of jail free card".. And razzed him. It was again a source of laughter when he got roasted at his ECOH..

No, you did not mis-read anything. That is why many SM & ASM's are going on 5 - 10 -20 years in these positions, never bothering to take the course, because they figured Training requirements where more like "Training recommendations".. I know the requirement to have it for outings has not been in place for at least 7 years. That is around the time our troop made it's own training policy, that to go on outings, you need to have YPT, This is Scouting & Fast Start.. Then they had a year to get the other training and could go on outings but would be cut off from attending any future events if within a years time they did not bother to do the training. It may be required that one (1) person needs BALOO to take a whole pack camping, but OWLS is not required for a Webeloes den outing, and is not in the mandated training when it rolls out either. Also although every registered adult needs YPT.. only one adult leader of the group needs to have the other things, and that can be split with one person having Hazardous whether and another one person have safe swimm etc.. as long as someone in the group has all the supplemental training to satisfy the Tour Plan. No it is just the enforced mandated training they are rolling out that has requirements for IOLS & SM/ASM Specifics.. If the outing goes without any of the trained SM/ASM's and no one has the training.. No problem.. Kind of strange, but when has National ever made sense?

Reminds me of a time when I was maybe 4 years old (if that).. My sister (11 months older then me, but shy and would not talk to anyone), while on a camping trip with our parents and older sister (6 years older then me), decided to go off to by a pretty sail boat we saw in the bay with candy cane striped sails, with our 2 pennies.. Well we walked around and got very, very lost.. (I don't think we were too too lost as my older sister found us, told us we had to get back to the campsite, then disappeared and we were again lost.. very very lost..) So after wandering around for - like - ever... We found a forest ranger.. So up we go to the forest ranger, and my 11 mth older sister would not say a peep, so it was up to me.. I told him we were lost and could he get us back to our campsite.. "So what are your parents names?" he asks me.. I proudly respond.. "Mommy and Daddy".. I don't even think I knew our last name, I did though now my sister's & my first name.. Well eventually when we did not return after a long time from when my oldest sister found us, then left us again my parents did put out search for us and the ranger was able to re-unite us.. Don't know if my address would have helped, but knowing my parents names certainly would have. Never did get our candy-cane striped boat we figured the owners would happily sell to us for our 2 cents though. I think this was the same trip where we stayed with friends in an army style circus tent, I got lost in the tent.. Didn't need to know my parents names to get out of that one though, I just stood in the tent and cried until my mother rescued me from the tent.. I guess I got lost alot..

That would be odd Kudu. But you had me curious enough to look up the exact wording.. You kind of took it out of context. The whole requirement reads as follows. 9.Show experience in camping by doing the following: a. Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent. b. On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision: 1. Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet. 2. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least four miles. 3. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours. 4. Take a non-motorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles. 5. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience. 6. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more. c. Perform a conservation project approved by the landowner or land managing agency. So this is not an either/or so that they can replace camping, this is a while camping you need to do two from this list. Does it mean they can get away with car camping "YES".. Can they use cabin camping.. "NO".. But most of the ones you did not find offensive 1. Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet. 2. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least four miles. 5. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience. Could be done with car-style camping rather then backpack-style camping with a day hike/snowshoe/cross country.. The Snow camping whether car camping or backpacking means planning, prep-work, and some camping skill though. The only one that is Backpack is if they choose one of the 3 options in option #2.. "Backpack".. That changes your examples to.. "Track your actual income, expenses, and savings for 13 consecutive weeks, while rideing your bike around for four hours." "Explain to your merit badge counselor the concepts of simple interest and compound interest, while rappeling 30 feet." "Demonstrate to your merit badge counselor your understanding of time management, while floating downstream for four hours eating cupcakes." Time management While the floating & cupcake eatting is very hard to do.. You must make sure you don't run out of cupcakes before you finish you floating trip!..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)