MoosetheItalianBlacksmith

You cant say that they cant tent with anybody beside a Biological parent. There is a reason its Parents and/or GARDIANS. What if you get a boy thats adopted or you get a boy that has both of his parents that died and he was taken in by somebody else. Or perchance there is a divorce and the parent with guardianship gets remarried. Guardians have to be taken into consideration. Another thought about that divorced couple. What if the parent that doesnt have Guardianship isnt supposed to have one on one contact with the child? But I will say its always preferable for boys to tent with other boys.

You are correct Weare is in the Massabesic District but we perfered a troop in the Wannalancit District at the time. It was only a 30 min drive which is nothing for us out here. Thanks for the comments and wishing me the luck.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

At 16 or 17 I was a Qualified Water Safety Instructor and Lifeguard and was performing both of these jobs on a daily basis. I would hope nobody would argue that these are serious roles that roles that require maturity and responsibility there. Due to the fact that people are entrusting their life and those of their kids to me and if im not paying attention sombody can get hurt. But its also something nobody looks twice at a young person doing. And if you think about those jobs they Require building a long term mentoring relationship with groups of youth. Because before you can get them to learn from you; you must gain their trust. Generalizations leave large numbers of people treated unfairly. In this particular situation if the age limit were lower than those people would not be left out and it would be up to the unit to decide what they wanted to do. If they thought that person would be good in a position or not...oh wait they do that now with anyone over 21. Oh sorry for the confusion with the 18. I was talking to Teacher/Scout and a lot of People say 18 because its an average and save a lot of confusion from listening to psychological stuff. And both of us have heard 18 from countless people due to those reasons. But she knows her stuff. (This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

While it is true that if you want to get a more permanent guardianship you have to go to court. But For a temporary guardianship you only need an official document signed by an official notary. In alot of packs the RULE is that you cannot go on a trip without a parent.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

As to your new question.....no nobody wants that. But nobody said that happened either I know parent and sons that leave the tent to let each other change and that may be the same situation here. Without knowing the fact we cannot rush to judgment. Again Im not saying its right. id put the kibosh on it in the future and have a talking to the people involved just to be on the safe side. But theres no proof anything was done wrong.

As to the Actual Situation the rule is you can only stay in a tent with a legal parent or guardian. The form you are describing was a legal document giving temporary guardianship to the other parent. Therefore the Youth Protection Policy was not violated if what you are saying is accurate. But I would not call it Kosher by any stretch of the imagination. I would say it warrants a talk just to be on the safe side so they know the policy and you dont have a similar issue again. I also believe the boys should have shared a tent and the adult been by himself unless there was an issue with one of the boys we dont know about where they are uncomfortable doing that. We actually have a boy in our Troop who has health issues and wants to go to summer camp. Because of those conditions he cant stay in a tent with another boy and he cant stay alone. The other problem is that his parents are not going to be able to come. So they already have the forms filled out to do the exact same thing and give temporary guardianship to another adult. As for the Hypothetical Question its a grey area technically they are not parents or guardians so it would be against Youth Protection for them to share a tent but on the other hand they are part of the family and nobody will generally question it. (This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

I am thinking about taking on the popcorn postion for my district. Nothing is definate yet but the DE is intrested in having me do it. But I was curious about what some of the duties and responsibilities of this job are.

IN answer to the question just posted there is no such thing as equally qualified as everyone has different personalities that can add or subtract to a specific position. And to make a decision like that you would have to know those personalities. But all things being equal I would have to go with the 19 or 25 year old as they are old enough to space themselves from the boys and not be seen as one of the boys yet they can still relate to them in a way the 35 year old cannot. And part of the scoutmaster position is to be somebody that the boys can come and talk to with any issues be it scouting or not. The 19 year old will do better at relating to the boys and recently crossed over Cub Scout parents I have found are more open to the younger leaders then seasoned Boy Scout leaders. The 25 year old will still do okay with relating to the boys but seasoned Boy Scout leaders would be more comfortable with them. This is where the problem of people getting stuck in their ways comes in and can interfere with things. We are all there after all for the BOYS. I have seen this time and time again the boys with listen to and respect the younger leaders because they are leaders. And if they have any questions or issues and have any choice in the matter they will try to come to a younger adult leader first. And Ive seen this in multiple troops. This is also true on the adult side when I talk about new crossover leaders/ slash cub leaders turned scout leaders they have no issues with younger leaders and to them young adults are fully fledged adult. Its when you get to the Scout leaders that have been there awhile they get stuck in their ways. And that can be either positive or negative, for or against young leaders. I mean look at what moose tracker said about adults decision making for kids and young adults, it is 100% accurate. For those that think Venturing is the answer to retaining these young adults its not Ive talked to a lot of people and myself included are not interested in the program and thing it isnt worth our energy. (No offense to anybody that is in it and likes the program a large part of the scouting population does not) KC9DDI by the time your 18 you have your personality set in stone and youre just working on fine tuning details. Thats something any guidance councilor, physiatrist, or anybody else will tell you. So by that point unless something drastic happens to them person to change their personality they are gonna have shown that they have leadership skills and responsibility. Can they be improved on maybe but I bet yours can be too.

Its a town not a name.....and Im not the only person to put a town name on. Besides these are scouters there shouldnt really be an issue and if there was Weare is still the 3rd biggest land massed town in New Hampshire good luck finding us. So thats what I say to you. (This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

So in the fall I'll have been in scouting for a solid 15 years. My mother has been on the forum for a while son of you may have seen her posts as MooseTracker. And Ive been interested in getting on but just never got around until yesterday. I finally got the kick in the pants when my mother posted about the idiocy of my troop yesterday and I wanted to post on it. (For more info the thread is called The Runaway train). Any way I have been the Outdoor Coordinator right up till last night. I also sit on the advancement board for my district and am a district trainer. I have taken wood badge and received my beads. I also am and Eagle Scout and a Brotherhood Member of the Order of the Arrow. I am currently going to college for welding and wish to own my own welding and blacksmithing shop in the future. My hobbies include motorcycling, Scouts, Blacksmithing, swimming, and hanging out with my fiance. I am famous for being truthfully honest and straight forward. Im gonna tell it to yha like it is. I Strive to live by the Scout Law, Oath, motto, AND slogan. Though it could be better at times Ill admit but nobody is perfect. I love the scouting program and wish everything for the boys if I can help in any posts I will try to do that as I hope others will do the same for me.

As it was explained to me by an old District Executive we had once who has since retired. Those Rules were based off of old rules that BSA has never gotten around to changing. The Other answer that Ive heard is threat they want them to work with the boys and just continue to pretty much be an older boy as an ASM and teach skills and contribute that way. But if thats not where there skill sets are, or not where they are most comfortable or not what they want to do, then it really isnt worth their time. Whether this information is accurate or not I am not sure but thats the best answer I got. Unfortunately because of those rules nobody knows what to do with people in that area they are left in limbo and it really sucks. And I know for a fact this limbo land is why you lose many many young adults between the ages of 18 to 21. Even more so then colleges. And that I know for a fact is true. yes I know my name is long you can shorten it if you would like.

First off I have no issues with people shortening my username....I knew it was long when I made it but thats what I wanted a nice combination of my nickname my heritage and one of my hobbies. Okay well the committee meeting went swimmingly. Both my fianc and I turned in our jobs and are now leaning toward leaving the troop. Oh and the same Scoutmaster was elected again in a close vote between me and him. We took them by surprise at this meeting and the Troop is in for some hurting. Which is not what I want to do to the boys but no matter what we do it was going that way and it had been going that way for a long time. We have boys that refuse to go on trips unless one of the three of us is present. We also have boys who the committee doesnt want to deal with the medical issues off so they passed them off to us. There are also no leaders with the skill sets required for the jobs the 3 of us had. My issue with this situation was not my running for scoutmaster and if my vote could help there or not. It was a deal made that was broken "a verbal contract". The age of scoutmaster wouldnt have mattered any way as it would become effective in the fall 2 weeks before I turn 21 and the re-charter isnt even until December. So the Scoutmaster position really is kind of a side note. Something that needed to change if there was any hope of fixing the troop but not important to the story. Lisabob: I have had my share of life experience and am one of those people that can see beyond where I am at. With the amount of bull Ive put up with in this troop and for how long I've learned how to deal with adults and still get what I need done done. I know a lot of adults older than me that are worse at dealing with issues, fights, and personality clashes then I am. Packsaddle: I am well known to be honest and straight to the point. People who know me know that if I make up my mind its gonna happen. If I give a warning/threat its to let you know something needs to change pronto or I WILL (not may) WILL carry it out. If I do that its to be fair to people or to give them an idea something needs fixing that they cant seem to fix. And it has worked on more than one occasion for me because people know Im not a blowhard or a coward. But usually thats that what I find to be necessary and I go with what I feel is right and the rest will fall as it falls. Oh and so your all aware our District Executive loves to have young adults filling adult roles and pushes it as much as possible. As he says "the organization is for the youth both the boys and young adults. We should be teaching the young adults how to become fully fledged adults and get them ready for the real world by giving them every opportunity and support we can here." He was very supportive of me being Outdoor Coordinator and really liked that. Just so everyone knows cause I think there was some confusion when I told you about the personalities of the CC, COR, and SM. I was merely saying that that is how they are. I still am very cordial with them and get along with them fine for the most part.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

This is the son again I made my own account. So everyone is aware, I love this troop and the boys in it. I am an Eagle Scout from this troop and people need to stop looking at the stupid age rules. Between the ages of 18 and 21 BSA really over looks people and sticks them in limbo....they leave you with Merit badge Councilor and ASM. ASM in our troop means we get to sit on our ass and look pretty while our scoutmaster ignores us and tries very hard to ignore us and not to use us & anybody can be a merit badge councilor- thats a part time gig. Furthermore I have never let age stop me and I never will. I right now sit on the district advancement committee and have done so for a few years. And have recently gotten my fianc on the board as well. I also am one of the districts trainers and have run more than one training day. My Father and I are the 2 most Trained leaders in our troop and we have both even taken Woodbadge Training. Now if you tell me that I should stick with doing what Im allowed to do based off of my age what in the above list would there be. Maybe the training but nothing else. Nobody has ever had an issue with us being in the positions before this or any other troop and we have done very well at our jobs. In fact when I took the job I wasnt given anything but a title and had to learn it all from scratch and collect all the information....now there is a solid book with health forms permission slips contact info and anything else you may ever possibly need in that position including rules and regulations for outings. Like I said I love the Troop and the boys and I know I have a lot of support there from other people, unfortunately the people I dont have support from are the CC,COR, and SM but the SM hasnt liked me since I joined the troop as a boy. And the COR is Famous for her tunnel vision and will run people over if she thinks it will help her achieve her goal- it makes her a formidable lawyer. And the CC has no issues with me but hates any form of conflict so will not go against the COR. I really want to be able to get past the bull to make the scouting program better for the boys and give them everything they deserve....they deserve everything scouting has to offer and thy just arent getting that right now. (This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)