MoosetheItalianBlacksmith

Welcome to the Campfire.....we got no bugs!!!

Welcome to the campfire

If he doesnt tell us the likly hood is we have no clue when the project days are and we dont get to any of them.....its rare that the boy doesnt tell us though. I can understand your fustration with that. I was just working with a boy whos troop was almost the direct cause of him not getting his Eagle scout. I did that as a friend. The boys come up 2 see us 2ce and 2ce only. once is to get the project approved and the second can be after they turn 18....the Eagle BOR. we will send sombody away and have them come up with a differnt project if it doesnt meet the requirments. But we dont want to do that either so if we can do it we look at their other Eagle project ideas and/or help them strengthen they one they have. On example of a boy we had to send away was a boy that wanted to do a whole bunch of data entry with people in other states. Meaning he had no way to lead them. and then have fundraiser to send himself to another country to put a wreath on a fallen soldiers grave. That was the only use for the fundraiser. He also had no other proposals planned. We are there to help the boys and dont have a desire to give them the run arround. And im very sorry you got that in your area.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlackSmith)

Mainly the current SM at the time. But he went to PLC and said why he wanted it done and got a majority agreement.

Our troop banned some of the stuff that the boys kept flocking to and required no cooking skills to be learned or used. (poptarts and hotdogs) But we also refuse to cook for them. Leaders make their own seperate meal as an adult patrol and boys are on their own. The only exception to this is the thanksgiving campout during which the leaders spend the entire day cooking a giant feast outside and boy get to play learn some skills get some advancment done and chill. But again other than that its all on the boys because they need to learn the skills. Yyou want to try and promote that they have healthy balanced meals...but its their meal not yours. As long as they offer something from each food group their good. but based on that perpective you were much better off than the other troop.

I want to apologize to Eisely for accidentily hijacking their post.

which is great for you thanks for serving.....and id love to work with you someday but at the same time differnt councils and districts run differently depending on the people in the area or what they have found works best for Their area. Im happy for you if the Eagle board in your area has found it doesnt need to do anything extra. As MT said In the end, only one member of the board is normally chosen to oversee the project.. Normally chosen because they live closest to.. Then though they are invited by the scout to a few things, it is lucky if they can show up to one thing, due to having their own personal life, and possibly still being involved with their own troop. When they show up, it is normally not for the whole day, but for an hour or two.. Normally Adult leaders are happy to see people from the district branch take and interest in them and their unit.. I know both husband and son have received Thank-yous for showing up both informally and formally in a letter or email.. They also are invited to many ECOR's.. this works well for our district because they see that the district is not this big evil thing...which ive notices is a common theme with scouters. that higher the area District, Council, Nation the less they trust them. by meeting they see that district is just a bunch of normal scouters like them and are happy that it has taken intrest in them. We are careful to not add to requirments but we do run the board the way weve foundit works best. If fantastic new ideas come in we are very likly to instute them whime making sure we dont ad to requirments. Like i said we are here and doing this for the boy and we want to help them any way we can. Hopefully both of us can share at least in that. Even if we disagree on how to do so.

The trouble is I've just seen too many scouters willing to step in and tell scouts how things should be. Often sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. not our job to step in and tell scouts how to do things. on the contrary we want the boys to lead the project and tell us what to do. Everyone on the board has been around long enough to know that sometimes the boys have to make their own mistakes. When we come in we come in to observe...talk to and get to know the boy, get a gernal overview of the project, help where we can, answer any questions the boy might have. and make them aware of any issues we see so they can improve. This is all about improving them and helping them learn. help and constructive critizim are big factors in that. Most of the projects i advise i go and look around....and ask where i can help. its as simple as that. From there at some point before i leave ill talk with the boy to get to know him better and let him know of anything i observed. This is called feedback. If he has any question he can feel free to ask at any time. So im not sure what in here is so bad that people need to object to it. Our District committee does the actual Eagle Board of reiviews as in most of the area even beyond our district the troops dont do an Eagle board of review. We want to get a general idea of who we will be recommending for the eagle rank. How often are you willing to put your name on something site unseen? (bad example but you get my point) the boys get more cofortable with us because now wehn they come back before the board there is at least one person they know. But it also lets us see what the boys skills are so we can feel more comfortable recomending him to national for the Eagle rank. Its breif its quick its not in depth and it gets everybody more comfortable with everybody else. Im not seeing how any of that is wrong or what there is to object to. Basicly im a normal person who just happens to be from the board stoping at an eagle project to see how things are going. KC9DDI we only want ot be at one thing.And they are told we might swing by. But a high majority of our scouts invite us to everything. We generally dont end up a project if they dont because we dont know when it is and have no other way of finding out. Take the fact that im part of the district out of your head....im a regular scouter as well and i serve on a troop and a pack. Every event i go to i see lots of people doing the meet and greet....yes including Eagle projects. i dont know what type of hosting they would have to do with us because its not like were trying to stick out like sore tumbs. If theres a cost to going(such as a fundraiser) we pay it we dont expect to get in free and besides it helps them so they have more money for the project.which is what were all about.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

You mIght think that....But at least since ive been on the board not one boy has had an issue. They have all been really excited to get to show off their project. I guess im missing something in the fact that im not sure how an extra person or so to help out or just poking their head in....ON a day their working anyway....can in anyway cause a problem. We try and stay out of the way maybe talk to the boy for a minute to see how progress is going. and Meet some of the bright young minds coming up through scouting. Talk with leaders and meet new people. Not Sure how that Is a bad thing. Ill have to remember meeting people and talking is a bad thing and i shouldnt do it any more. Even if i wasnt an eagle board member and i got word of an eagle project going on id probably swing by to give a congrates and get to know some more scouters. We only ever have an issue when there is a problem such as a a parent directing the project at which point we usually go to the boy and re adress that he should be running it and try to be as tacktful as possible. We go to the leader if the boy has tried and still cant get them to reliquish control of project. So helping a boy is the wrong thing to do....i should stop doing that too. Wait...isnt helping boys, teaching them life skills, having fun, and meeting people what scouts is all about? Or do i have that wrong too? As for makeing sure that we get the double check....weve had multiple units just try and push people through as im sure all of you have as well. At which point does that mean they signed paperwork because he deserves it or because they want another eagle. As i said before 9.75 times out of 10 the project is all good and the boy is showing leadership and looks like he'll make a great eagle canidate.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

I think you missed the point that were not retracting approval...because he was not a scout he did not Have a BSA EAGLE project approved. what we wanted to do was tye up the loose ends and make sure he has an EAGLE project. The Board approve projects all over this area to make sure they are up to par and meet all the requirments because there have been alot of new troops or leaders that dont know any better and allow the boy to do a project that has no LEADERSHIP or is for the troop ect. This is no fault of their own but it keeps eagle projects in this area at par. We meet once a month unless there is an emergency issue to adress. When that happens on extremly rare occasions we dont even convene a full board....just enough to have the meet requirments for a committee...about 3. Its everybodies job to talk to leaders and correct behaviors. As long as it is done respectfully this is called constructive critisim and training. It makes them better leaders. They can provide some input and guidance for a Scout, supplementing the unit leadership. How are we supposed to do this without seeing the project or anything in action that is why we "observe" the project. In this area Units do not hold Eagle Boards....that is entirly on us. We give the leaders alot of benifit in the fact that if they are here there are probably people that feel they deserve it. But we also want sombody from our board to double check that things are looking good....easiest place to do this....Eagle Project. So again we are "observing". One bad thing does not bar sombody from the eagle rank. We simply adress it so they know to be aware of it and adress it in the future. As i said there has to be something massive in order to bar him. We want them to earn it but we want them to earn it the correct way and we will help them with that any way we can. In this district it has been that way from many years....before i was even a Scout.

Our Board assignes everybody an advisor when they get their projects approves (very common in other areas too) and told that at that time the will be trying to get to any pieces of the project they can get too. This is because in order to advise the project and later to have a referance point as to wether he did it or not we need to see the work. So its not Really un annouced....it announced at the begining then they are also told they should be informing their advisor of every work day so they can come. Wed do this with any of boy because as they were unregistered they could not have had an Eagle Project approved....they could have a service project approved. But you need to be a scout to work on an EAGLE project. So right now tecnicly they have a service project not an Eagle project. Were not in this to keep people from Eagle were here for the boys....but Eagle Scout is a big deal and if they are going to do it...it should be done correctly. We try and be as fair as possible and wever heard of numerous other eagle boards that alot harsher and I feel are unfair to the boys. but ive also heard of some that are so lax a 2 year old could get approved. We try our hardest to work with the boys and make sure things are done correctly but not make it too much of a hassle for them. If we need to conveen a board at a boys house during the week for an emergency reason weve done that too. Its for the boys but it isnt a gimmee. Our board DOES NOT just deal with projects....we approve the Eagle scout rank and we want to make sure that if you get eagle you deserve eagle. That being said with the help we give very few people who come for an Eagle Board of review get turned down....even if there were mistakes in the project. We make note of them and let them know to be careful of them in the future. For us there has to be a big issue or lack of leadership for them to be turned down. We try and stay as fair as possible.

Im very honest....but (for example) if my fiance asks a question to which she wont love honest answer i aske her if she wants the true answer or the boyfriend answer....usually she wants both. ANd with the truth and the complimentary Fib shes usually very happy.

That depends on the troop....Some will rearrange every patrol every 6 months....others will keep the same patrols as long as the boys are in the troop. With the second method it allows the patrols to learn eachothers strengths and weaknesses and get to know everyone really well. I was a member of an older boy patrol (which you became a member of by earning the appropriate rank)...and we won multiple camporrees and stuff like that cause we knew each members strengths and weaknesses and would use them at the appropriate times. Best way to run it in my opion is to have a younger scout patrol to try and get them up in rank a bit then split that patrol into common patrols. At that point leave these patrols alone until and let em learn teamwork with a consitant team. Then when they reach a certain age or rank put in the older boy partol. Patrols can Either be structured by rank as stated above. Or you can have all ranks mixed into all patrols. then theres a 3rd option ive never actualy seen used before which is to organize patrols based off the neighborhoods the kids live in.

what your talking about it the scout spirit part of rank advancment. We cannot take rank or requirments away but if they are not living by the scout oath or law you can delay that signiture till they are....or you feel they have improved. Its at SM or committees deiscretting....most just look at that requirmnet as a gimmee though.

KC9DDI:If hes not registared as a Scout he cannot do an Eagle Project. If hes not registared as a scout an Eagle Project cannot be given to him. SO by stating that way....they do not have legal projects. Sombody brought the issue to our DE's atention and he then passed it on to us to deal with because its an Eagle Project/Eagle Rank issue. This has nothing to do with the Lone Scout function Although that is adding to the headache. Weve had people from some of the other types of scouting come before the board with no issues. And no the issue was not correctly resolved....We only have 1 council Registrar and he was tricked into submitting the application. Our DE did not approve them for lone scouts. Because there is a troop 5 minutes from where they live that he wanted them to go to. Their old Troop folded. Needless to say the DE has had a serious talk with the Registrar. Our board also looks in on projects and determines if a scout has Earned the eagle Rank. That means certain rules need to be followed. Out-and-out Fraud as twocubdad appropriatly called it does not an Eagle scout make. Based on some of the facts its become apparent that the boy was playing along with the scam. So as Council Said were 100% right and hed need to get it reapproved ect ect. but they wont back us up or enforce it.

We agreed with you that the Kids would need to come back to the board and have their projects reaproved or find new ones because they wernt registerd last time they came up so No EAGLE PROJECT was approved just a service project. Council stated that Although our interpretation of how we should proceed is correct they wont back us. Because of the Reason Moosetracker just stated. Now the fact that the boy put he old troop number on the Flyers and in the newspaper for the fundraiser right off the bat says hes doing something WRONG and he was aware of something. The other scout had given apps and money to Lone Mom and assumed that they were now registered. That kid turns 18 in a month. So i feel bad for him and feel like the council is right in his situation cause neither him or his mom knew anything about this....they made the mistake of trusting lone mom. So one boy the Council is Wrong with how they want to handle it and with the other boy i see the point....but wed have been more than willing to come see him in next day or so to get it reapproved....weve done it before for extreme situations. Oh and lone mom's son has a few more years before he turns 18

sounds familure We have 2 projects going on that one mother is at fault for the whole mess and council has already said although our thoughts were correct( that the boys needed to stop their project...reregistar as scouts.... and get it reaproved by the District before any farther progress is made) they will not back us up because they feel it was not the boys fault and that they cannot be peanalized for the one mothers actions. I feel part of this is on the boys as well especialy the advertising of an illegal fundraiser.

MMM bacon.....yum my animal....Eagle

Welcome to the fire.

Typically I would agree with all of you and even if Im the other part of "no one on one" I stay completely out of the conversations. There was just awkward tensions rising from the room from the kid cause of the days hed had. The discussion only happened while he was writing the report and he actually thoroughly enjoyed it. he threw in info on both sides But in the end it actually let him relax and enjoy the scouting experience. I also look at this guy more as another leader....hell be 18 in less than a week and Ive never seen him in a role other than a leader. So in most cases yes you are all right and no this would not be the correct time or place. Ive learned there are shade of grey but it should be a smaller section between the black and white and not overpower them.

Wow you blew that way out of proportions. No offens to anybody else on here. Started as a joke (trying to lighten kids mood cause hes had a reall tough couple days) till you made a point of Report means Written. We know very well from school and other that a report can be verbal as well. We even found a dictionary that specificly said as much. Also think about the report you got. He has some writting difficulties like my bestfriend. Came up in conversation with my father because it was intresting. Should we talk about the boring events of the day instead? how often does that happen? he even said it was a gray area. We were not trying to get you in trouble or fired. At that point we were more trying to understand because our knowladge of "report" would indicate that you were adding to requirments which would be a no no. His answer was it was a grey area. I made other jokes through the course of the meritbadge session too even during the whole report thing. Maybe i should have left the room i did have other stuff to do too but i wanted to cheer him up and make sure there was 2 deep leadership. Please Come talk to me Before posting negitivly about me in the future with out all sides and all facts. P.S. I barely have 2 pennies to rub together. (This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

the other leaders that got burned want me to start another troop in the area....there are enough boys to make a patrol if all boys agree....but theres alot of factors there and im not gonna jump into it to fast.

Welcome to the Online campfire were the people are friendly and there are no msquitos

Your family sounds like ours....my mother and i are co training chairs for the district right now and my father is advancment chair. Welcome to the online campfire. if you dont mind me asking what part of the country you in....dont need details just curious. Hope you find all info you would want to know on here. how do you like it so far?(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

I used to be an Eagle and a good old eagle too