MomScouter

The one that comes to mind is the Swimming badge. My son and several others were working on this over Christmas break, and it was very confusing because the counselor had 1 set of rqmts, there was another set for 2001, and another for 2002. We went with the 2002 rqmts. I just hope that it does not change again anytime soon! It was pretty easy for my son and the other boys either way. I had purchased the y2k merit badge rqmts book and didn't realize I might have to get a new book every year, or that the troop would have to purchase new books for changed badges. I do refer to the USSCOUTS website which has all changes indicated. We get some information from the council about badge and rank changes but I find the USSCOUTS site more up to date and detailed. I am relatively new to Boys Scouts (my son is 11), how often do these kinds of changes to badges and ranks occur?

sctmom, my son is at the other end of the spectrum...he is 11 and 5'11", 220 lbs, size 12 feet! And he hasn't even had that growth spurt yet that comes with puberty. He has been in adult sizes for some time now. I know this is off topic, but we have run into problems with other scouts treating him like he is older than he is and expecting more of him. I am grateful that shirt sizes do go pretty big because we will need them!

Bob, I like your ideas about bringing a buddy. I am going into a new troop that has been having recruitment problems and this sounds like a good plan. My question is, what BSA rules are in place regarding bringing non-registered boys to scouting events? Is there an insurance issue?

Congratulations! Great project idea, I too will add that to my list of Eagle ideas.

Bigbeard, why don't you ask one of the leaders if you can help out with a diversity project? That might open their eyes a bit. GS is very big on promoting diversity not to mention family. Or offer to teach a skill or lead a game or something wherever your talent lies. You could offer to join the committee (if they have one) or become an assistant leader if you are so motivated - go to some of the trainings. Or better yet come and join my troop because we'd love to have all you dads involved!

At one time I was a strong advocate for the policy of requiring parents to help out in some capacity as a kind of joining requirement. Then I found out that there were some kids who would have never been able to experience scouting because the parents just didn't want to get involved. These are usually the kids that need it the most too. So in the pack we would just keep plugging for help, a little at a time, and soon we had a good deal of adults helping out. We would have a parent meeting prior to the first pack meeting, and I would have a parent meeting prior to my first den meeting. We'd have another parent meeting later in the year during a pack meeting where all the parents would go into one room with the CC and a few others, and the boys would be somewhere else with the CM and other adults playing games or something. We sure didn't get everyone this way but we did get an increase in help and committee members.

I for one would welcome a Dad leader or asst. leader, we need all the help we can get! I do know several male leaders nearby, they camp and all that. The rule is that there must be at least one female leader involved at all times and of course, males have separate sleeping quarters. Last summer I worked GS day camp, and we had a boys campsite for boy children of leaders and volunteers. It was led by a Cub leader/Eagle Scouter and everyone benefited from having this adult and the 'boys camp' present. They participated in everything the girls did, made a unit flag and yell like the girls, took their turn with flag ceremonies, and put on a great skit! So many of the people involved in Scouting around here have boys and girls and tend to get involved in both.

Bob White, I am the CC! The COR is not the least bit interested in the troop and does whatever the SM says as far as signing things. I have tried to change things to be more like the BSA rules, but its an uphill battle and not one I care to wage. Other parents have dropped out left and right. There are plenty of troops around, its just a matter of picking one my son likes and I see is run correctly. I was CC in the pack for several years and the Committee did a great job, worked together well with the CM. Great insights everyone, this forum has certainly provided me with a lot of ideas and advice.

OGE, sad but true, GS troops fold quickly at least where I live. The most common complaint I hear from other leaders is the lack of parental help. We are fortunate in our troop to have a good deal of support and help, we even have a committee, but somewhat unfortunately these are all mothers. We rarely see a Dad at anything other than specific Father/Daughter events. In contrast, pack meetings seem to have moms, dads, grandparents, siblings, etc. I hope to encourage more Dad participation when I start my Junior troop. As for council owning the GS troop resources, I actually prefer it that way. I am held accountable for every dime that goes in and out of the checking account. I have to produce receipts for eveything. I greatly simplify this by using accounting software to balance the checkbook. My experience in BSA with bank accounts has been kind of an anything goes with the money as long as the Committee agrees, and I have been in Committees with as few as 5 people. In fact, I am in the process of switching BS troops right now, one reason of which is that the bank account is in the SM's name and the money seems to go into a black hole. Our GS council never messes with us, they are too short staffed for stuff like that! My personal experience is that the local GS council is a lot more organized than the local BSA council, but that may be unique to where I live. My goal is that by the time I have a Cadette or Senior troop with girls of around Venture age, that it will be every bit as interesting as a Venture crew! (I hope)

Thanks for all the posts on this issue. Most have verified everything I had originally thought to be true. My son and I have decided to WALK to a better situation. We're still tying up loose ends with the current troop. Like you all said, this is supposed to be FUN! It has been a good learning experience at any rate!

You have painted a very accurate picture of the 2 programs. I agree that it would be good if the 2 could borrow from each other. I am fortunate in that 2 of my 3 Brownie co-leaders are also involved in Cub Scouts so we tend to borrow from each program where we can - for example, unlike many GS troops in out area, we encourage our troop to be of mixed ages (some troops around here actually limit troops to 1 grade level) so we are running our large (29 girls) troop more like a pack with dens (we have patrols). We go on a lot of the same types of outings at the Cubs. This month we have new patrols and all of our bridging 3rd graders are in the same patrol so they can work on bridging. I will be starting a Jr. troop in May with several adults, and the Brownie troop will continue with the younger girls as well as incoming 1st graders and hopefully more adults. I am completing my 3rd year as a leader and while Brownies was fun, I am looking forward very much to Juniors. We do have a fairly active Service Unit so there are usually monthly activities at the SU level. These vary from service projects to skating parties to the Thinking day International Bazaar. It is unfortunate that the Gold Award does not get more recognition comparable to that of Eagle.

Is this something that the CO is supposed to handle? In the pack I used to be in, the church (CO) had us fill out an additional application required by all of their youth volunteers. However, in the troop I am currently with, I don't think the COR is even aware of which adults are registered! He just signs whatever is handed to him (this is one of many reasons we are switching troops soon!)

Bob White, I have built and maintained the troop listing of counselors, the problem is, the ones on our list do not show up on the district list (both the forms with all the correct signatures were completed and sent it). All I have been trying to determine is, are our counselors legit? While I do not mind helping out to clean up some of this mess, I wonder if a better solution would be to petition National to get a more robust system that can handle the needs of the units!

I have thought of volunteering to update the list! My son is only 11 and when he first became a Boy Scout he wanted to work on the Sports MB. He called a counselor on the list and was told by the mans wife that he has not been doing this for 3 years! I just don't understand why this has to be such a maintenance nightmare. It seems like it should be simple enough for me (or someone in our troop) to create a file of current approved counselors, then upload it to the council database, which in turn could easily provide updated district/council listings. (I am in I.T. and the inefficiencies I have heard about with the 'new software' just boggles my mind.)

I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing the problem I am in getting an accurate and updated merit badge listing from the council. In our council each district publishes their own listing. I am told that once the MB counselor application is received, it is entered in the Council database with the individual listed as a MB counselor but not as being a counselor for anything specific. Then these applications are passed on to someone in each district who has to enter them again in a spreadsheet which lists the name, phone, address, and badge name. This seems to be the point at which things get lost. I registered for several badges 9 months ago. Several others in our troop registered as well. I have been asking the DE for an updated listing during all this time and I have been assured time and again we are registered (there are 8 people with about 40 different badges). My concern is that some of these are EAGLE badges and I have been told time and again to make sure that everything is in order and legit for anything that goes on an Eagle application. Then I got the listing today and surprise! Only 1 of our counselors appear on the list!! I have been requesting this listing for the entire 9 months, time and again, and DE told me, time and again, don't worry you and other in your troop are registered. My guess is we are registered with Council but just have not been entered on the district list. How do other districts deal with this? Does every council use the same software? If so, why was this software not designed to produce MB listings easily, complete with the names of the badges for which one is qualified for? Our council has had one problem after another with 'the new software sent by National'. If there is in fact one software package used by all, I wonder who evaluated and tested it. Two years ago I remember asking for a pack roster listing and it took over 6 months for them to get me a copy.

When we first joined the troop I found out that the listings were for the entire district and they were about 3 years outdated. So I started an initiative to recruit counselors by typing up a letter to distribute to teachers, community leaders, parents, and other qualified adults such as Cub leaders. We got a lot of counselors that way, not as many as I would have liked but a pretty good listing. Most of the adults in our troop, including the SM, ASM, and committee members, are counselors for at least several topics. If the boys want to work on something that we do not have a counselor for, I have managed to track one down somewhere although since we live in a rural area we may have to travel a bit. I found out that the council registers adults as counselors in their database, but does not list what they are counselors for! So in order to get a district or council listing, someone has to manually create one. Sounds like theres room for improvement in the software they use.

Johnm, It sounds like your troop has evolved the way I would like to see ours evolve. We have 2 older boys (15 and 17) but the problem is, neither one of them wants to be around at all the meetings, PLC's, events, etc. They are probably there about half the time while the younger ones (11 and 12) are there all the time for everything. The SM says that the younger ones need to learn from the older ones but that is difficult if they are not there and cannot be depended on. So there is a void half the time, at which point I think the adults should be at least making suggestions. Several months ago this happened and several of us Committee members made a few suggestions, (NOT decrees!) for a few activities then the older ones complained we were trying to take over (one is the SM's son, the other is the SM's sons best friend so I know a lot of this attitude came from the SM!). Some of the committee members now feel like we are walking on eggshells! We are also looking at other troops to transfer to due to this and other reasons, and I want to make sure we get in a troop that is boy run but at the same time teaches the boys how to do this in a manner appropriate to their experience. Your troop sounds awesome! That is the type of troop my son would like to be in and I am trying to let him know these things are not outside his reach.

I just read all of the great ideas in the previous post about the new boys joining and some activities they could do. I am assuming these posts were from adult members of their units. In my current troop, if I would have suggested any of these things at this point in time, I would have been told that they boys already had things in their plan, and while they would have included the new boys, it is not my place to try to add activities. Any ideas have to go through the PLC. I fully support the BSA concept of boy led troop, but at times I see it carried to an extreme in our troop to the point that the adults (EXCEPT the SM who always seems to get his ideas in the plan) cannot even make suggestions without the risk of being told we are trying to take over. I was wondering how other troops implement the boy led concept and to what level of detail. Do other PLC's plan every activity, every detail of every troop meeting, service projects? I understand that annual plans are supposed to be approved by the Committee and at this point adults can make suggestions or nix activities that are unsafe or unattainable. We have mostly young boys who are not always even aware of their options. The SM does not allow anyone other than himself or the ASM to suggest anything to the PLC. My son and I are in the process of exploring other troops due to a number of reasons and I am curious how others implement 'boy led' especially with a lot of younger boys. (I plan on going to complete BS training in April).

Actually, the Sm in our troop has been through training up to Wood Badge, the ASM and CC have had BSLT and Committee training! The one mentioned from the nearby town that does 'not allow' women on campouts has been a leader for over 15 years and has had training. He just thinks he can make his own rules.

Thanks for all the advice! I have involved the District Commissioner and he has has visited a committee meeting and tried to clear up a few things. The COR is uninvolved - but I am trying to make him aware of what is going on. I think I am doing the right thing for this troop, trying to play by BSA rulebook while at the same time being patient, hoping for the best. But another parent summed it up pretty good when she said everything is fine as long as you agree with him (the SM) but if you don't, look out. I can move on to another troop nearby that does not have these problems. I have talked to my son about this but want it to be his decision. I have observed a lot of packs and troops in this area and one thing that seems to make the difference between the great units and the ones with problems is the degree of politics between the adults. This is so unfortunate because the boys pay the price. There is a nearby troop that has a SM that has a 'rule' of no women allowed on campouts! Outrageous! Even more upsetting is that some of the adults go along with this, although a number have gone elsewhere with their boys.

I have been in a troop less than a year as a Committee Member but have been acting as CC since our CC on the charter is also the CO rep and has never to the best of my knowledge attended a committee meeting. This troop was started by the SM, he personally owns much of the equipment the boys use, and the bank account is in his taxid number, not the CO. None of the committee members has ever seen the checkbook; we're lucky to see an occasional fiancial report. He seems to have the position that the committee is there to do as he asks, not make decisions on their own. He insists on keeping people on our charter who we have not seen in a year, I say we need to contact them and if they are not going to participate, lets cross them off. I have asked a DC to assist with some of these issues and set them straight. I was the CC of the pack and we all worked together with the Cubmaster, there were none of these power issues. I just want the committee to be able to do its job as outlined in the Troop Committee Guide. My son likes most of the boys and is comfortable with the troop. We have talked about changing troops, one day he is ready to leave, another he wants to stay (he's 11). I am willing to work out the problems we have but my patience with the SM is running out. A number of boys and parents have left the troop because of his attitude that he has to be in control. I believe that if my son and I left there would be 3 others that followed, and that's about half of the (active) troop! My question is, at what point do I quit trying to improve the adult relationships and move on? I want any troop change to be my son's choice but it is very hard to be an effective CC/C member in the current environment. Several of the other committee members feel the same way.

'TJ youre a real piece of work, you know that? ' DD, does your lack of courtesy and self righteousness know no end? Reread OGE's post about this and consider following his advice.

When I was with the pack, we tried something to promote community service and it seemed to work. The boys were big on patches on the red vests so we started tracking community service hours and gave out a patch after I think 5 hours of service. After that, we gave out these little stars to be placed around the patch for each additional 5 hours of service. They enjoyed this. This motivated the pack to come up with projects each month. Some of the projects are big like the Scouting for Food drive, others are smaller like coloring dozens of eggs for local Easter egg hunts. My Webelos den planted a bunch of trees in a local preserve. One time the pack raked up the yard of an elderly women and they had a total of 60 bags of leaves! They had a blast doing this too. Some of the things my Brownie troop has done: pet drive to deliver to local Humane Society as well as serve as hostesses for a local Humane Scoeity benefit dinner, collected toys for a womens shelter, planted flowers in several flower beds, one at the school the other at the township hall where we meet (the Boy Scout troop cleared out the ground and built the flower beds for us), put up bird feeders at local nature preserve, made tray favors for local nursing home and delivered them then went caroling at home. The kids love doing this stuff!

tj and Bob Russell, thank you for expressing your ideas on this topic. I just wanted to say I agree with your viewpoints. Too many people presume to know what the original intent was when Scouting was begun in regards to this issue. Keep talking folks! Your posts are a pleasure to read.

Hi sctmom, Yes I agree about the community service, there is a big focus in GS on doing this. When I was with the pack, we did service projects once a month but now that everything is boy led, it seems like a lot of the boys are interested in getting in the hours for Star, Life, etc. and do not go beyond that. Although I know if the boys in our troop were called on to help for anything, they'd be right on it! We do plenty of the little craftsy stuff (they're 1st through 3rd graders after all!) But we also do lots of hiking and outdoor stuff as well as sports and scout skills.