MomScouter

I'd like to hear some comments from some boys about what they think about the uniform. The basis of Scouting is boy-led; has anyone ever asked the boys what they wanted in a uniform? My son is 13 and he dislikes the shorts because they are uncomfortable, and 'too short'. He hates the look and feel of the knee socks, which our troop requires for certain events. He has no complaints about the shirt, but I have a problem with him having to wear this so much at camp - one year after he just got his new tan Webelos shirt, he came home with a big grape juice stain - there went close to $40! I know there is no such thing as a 'class B' uniform, but our troop has T-shirts for $7 that they call 'class-B'. And yes, the boys wear these with jeans. They wear these at camp, on outings, and to troop meetings. I know this is not what BSA wants but the boys have made the decision that this is OK. They are identifiable as a group because they have the same shirt, they are comfortable, and if the t-shirt gets ripped or stained, it's cheaper to replace. The 'class A' uniforms are worn for flag ceremonies, Court of Honors, and other special events, and thus stay in decent shape and are more likley to be passed down when outgrown.

My son is in a new troop this year, and they band with a few other local troops to get the number needed to serve at the governor's Honor Guard. This will be his first trip to Mackinaw (with Boy Scouts).

I have a couple mpre questions alone this line...what about boys who CHOOSE to be a Lone Scout even though there are troops nearby? I know of a local family and she asked me if her son could become a Lone Scout. She homeschools, and her daughters are 'Juliettes' (lone Girl Scouts). I also know a boy who is in a troop and not happy with it, and would like to be a Lone Scout. When I asked my DE about it, he said that no one should be a Lone Scout when there are troops available...and that was the end of that. How does a Lone Scout fulfill rank rqmts of leadership in the troop?

Some of our local Webelos leaders are most impressed with the troops that are active and do all kinds of fun things that are PLANNED BY THE ADULTS!! They know what boy led means, but they see all the cool trips and activities some of these troops are doing. It's like they are looking for an age extended Cub Scout pack..does anyone have this problem?

OK here is my dilemma - we joined a different troop last May. My son is 12 and has only been a Boy Scout for a year, and wanted to go in this troop because he had friends there (the prior troop did not work out). So I honored that decision knowing full well that the troop was not boy led. I was told by the DE that the SM was almost ready to retire (he has been a SM for over 40 years) and that we should gradually implement 'new' (or as far as I am concerned, the BSA way) methods and turn the troop around. Easier said than done...the SM does not even believe in the patrol method, does not have a PLC, plans all activities for the troop, refuses to use 'blue cards', and several other things which fly in the face of all I have learned. The CC has been with the SM for many years and they are both stuck in their ways; the COR is an unknown entity in the troop; the CC gets downright hostile if either of us 2 new committee members suggests any changes AND I recently found out that the Unit Commissioner (who I asked to attend a committee meeting so he could help us start a troop JLT program) views us newcomers as troublemakers!! If it were my decision, I would hit the road today and find a boy led troop for my son and offer my help as a committee member, but my son is adamant that he wants to stay with his buddies. (we live in a rural area and there are not a whole lot of troops nearby anyway). The DE has kind of distanced himself, and if we talk to him we are accused of 'going over the committee'. It is pretty ugly! I am trying to adhere to a high standard and not play political games. This is stressful to say the least. I know this topic is the patrol method...I guess my question is how to even get that started if there is all this resistance?

Where I live, one of the reasons why some people do not go to training is, that a lot of the people who are involved in Cub/Boy Scouts are also the same people who are involved in Girl Scouts, 4H, PTO, sports fundraisers, etc....There is a small handful of people doing the majority of the work for the kid related activities. To tell them they now have to go to training in addition to say, being the Troop Fundraiser Chair, (as well as buy a uniform) will put some people over the edge. I am not justifying it in any way...I work full time and do all of the above and still managed to get training....but not everyone will do it. There are single parents, parents working different hours, etc. It is a lot of WORK to commit to that level in Scouting, especially when help is scarce and you end up doing double duty. I had not realized that self training was an option until I had to miss a session and the trainer offered to loan me the tape and give me all the handouts. I thought she was bending the process a bit because she knew of my experience...it probably WOULD be a good idea to make people aware that they have flexible options.

Good discussion, and I know what Bob White says is true in an ideal troop setting. However, in a little town like where I live you're lucky to have 4-5 committee members. You're even more lucky to have trained people, maybe half are trained. The other half will tell you they do not have time, so either take their help or leave it. Not an ideal situation but its hard to say no to help when there is so little to begin with. Everyone is doing double, triple duty. It is hard...there are conflicts, disagreements, lack of parental support, and everyone is trying to do the best with what we have.

I have a troop of 9 year old (just bridged) Juniors. We camped at a council camp this summer. For September we have planned: Work on Girl Scouting in the USA badge. Go to a 'grape stomp' and visit a vinyard. Make grape jam (all part of our councils 'grapes' patch). Go to a nature preserve for a Wildlife badge workshop and then hike the trails. Plan the next few months and brainstorm ideas for the year. Do a service project recording childrens books on tape to donate to a hospital or day care. Pick a country and begin learning about it for our 'Tasting Tea'. Hey we left out crafts!!! I guess we have no time for that this month!

In our troop parents can counsel merit badges.....registered or not! I have been trying to compile a listing of counselors in our troop and found out much to my dismay that no one (except myself and another parent) who is counseling badges in our troop is registered! This includes the SM who counsels quite a few badges, including EAGLE badges. In addition, the SM does NOT use blue cards...has anyone ever heard of that? He just keeps track in some book he has then turns in the advancement report. It get worse....the SM is also the District Advancement Chair!!!! We have not been with this troop long, we left one in April because of too many problems with not following BSA policy...well here we are again with a SM who is ready to retire and still doing things like he did them 30 years ago. The DE is aware of the 'no blue card' situation, but no one will say anything because the SM is elderly and has been around a long time, and is basically a good guy (but stubborn). How do I deal with this??? I am a committee member outnumbered by a committee that has been with the SM a long time and will not go against anything he says or does.

Girl Scouts can plan whatever high adventure activities they desire, as long as they are within Safety-Wise guidelines. Troops are girl run at all levels (to varying degrees based on age) so it is up to the girls to plan these things...it is up to the leaders to make sure the girls know how to plan things and to know they should be running the troop. As an adult male you have a lot to offer; you could be a leader, a volunteer, teach skills, etc. Girl Scouts, like Boy Scouts, is as good as the scouts make it.

Wow that's an eye opener for me. My 12 year old son is 6'0" and weighs about 250. He plays soccer, baseball, football, basketball, and track, and is going to work on his Lifesaving merit badge this summer. He wears size 12 shoes and has just barely started puberty....so he has a lot of growing to do yet. Based on these stats, it looks like Philmont may not be allowed for him (but it wouldn't be allowed for Shaq O'Neill either!) I guess we can just hope that by the time he is 6'5" his weight will not increase with his height.

What are you talking about?

Ed, I like your idea and was actually pondering something like that...my idea involved having an Eagle Reunion of all the locatable Eagles that have come out of this troop and honoring them and the SM. I thought this might be a good opportunity to recruit potential SM/ASM's too. The good news is that the SM is starting to be accepting of having others take over some of the work and suggesting new ideas...we discussed finances recently and when he said 'we have plenty of money for our needs next year' (meaning advancements, etc) I said 'well some of these boys may want to go to Philmont or Jamboree or somewhere and will need to earn funds to get there' he was not only open to that idea but seemed happy that someone was willing to lead fundraisers and go to these types of events, campouts, etc, with the troop. So there is light at the end of the tunnel....Now I just need to get those Webelos parents excited about the program and into training next year!

Bob White, As usual your words offer great advice. The program is for the boys. Unfortunately the current committee consists of a Chair who has been with the SM for a long time, and others who will not say a word. One year from now, others will come on board to chime in but for now, there are 2 of us who see it this way, 3 who say nothing, and the Chair who was flat out rude to me at the last meeting over a discussion about using merit badge (blue) cards. (She claimed they were not needed and merit badge counselors do not need to register anywhere). Both the SM and the Chair are attending training with me but from what I can see, it is going in one ear and out the other when the 'boy led' or 'patrol method' discussions happen. I am going to talk to the unit commisioner next.

Recently my son moved to a troop that has the same CO as the pack he came from. There were several reasons we went there, one of which is that there are a lot of Webelos and their parents who want to join this troop next year and I have had a great working relationship with them as committee members and den leaders. My sons reasons for going there are because a good friend of his is there and he also likes the idea of having the Webelos he knows come on board. The SM has been doing this for close to 40 years and while he has a lot of Scout skills, he is really stuck in his ways. He does NOT really believe in the boy led concept - he runs the meetings and organizes activities that he wants to do. Ok I knew this before we joined but the SM had indicated he wanted to step back and take a lesser role so I figured he might do this after a while. Not so! Example - he really pushes hiking and the Hiking MB, told the boys last night they had to have it for Eagle but neglected to tell them that they could select Cycling or Swimming instead, and he was less than thrilled when I told them that. He said 'I have never known a boy who does not like to hike' but I suspect that is because he has never asked them! Camping is always at the same places, one place which is his property which is nice, but the boys do not select anything. I am in the process of completeing SM training, and I am quite enthusiastic about the boy led concept, JLT training, etc, and would like to see the troop have an annual planning campout or meeting this summer as well as regular PLC meetings. I do not want to be SM, I would rather do committee and MB counselor stuff, but am willing to do what I can to steer this troop in the right direction. My problem is, how can I possibly do this without offending the SM? He is a valuable adult leader and would make a great ASM to help with skills and badges, but he is not running the troop (or letting the boys run the troop) the way BSA says troops should be run! All the district folks are aware of this and encourage my efforts but also keep their distance. It seems like my only option is to wait a year and get the Webelos parents to take training and come on board, at which time we would be a majority...but this doesn't sound like the greatest way to go. The CO is uninvolved for the most part. We live in a rural area and there are not a whole lot of options as far as selecting other troops, without a lot of travel. Any suggestions?

way cool!

Sctmom - I hear ya! This could well be a separate topic (Webelos to Scout transition and how it affects retention). I was a Webelos leader for 2 years, did all the training, read everything I could get my hands on about Webelos. We visited troops, went on a campout. But there are so many differences between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts - here is what I'd do different it I could go back: As soon as the boys became Webelos, I'd begin involving them in a lot more decision making such as which badges to work on, what types of outings to go on, managing den money, etc. By the end of the 2 years I would make sure they all knew what boy led meant. I'd do a lot more with Boy Scout troops, going way beyond the 1 visit/ 1 outdoor event to get AOL. I'd have the den do something with a troop at least once a month and increase camping and outdoor activities. I would educate parents on what I was learning about Boy Scouts. I would try to get them to understand how they will be needed in Boy Scouts, as merit badge counselors or ASM's and let them know about the trainings that are available NOW. I tell these things to my friends who are currently Webelos leaders...some of it sinks in but they are sometimes so busy doing adult planned activities with the boys they do not even think of what it will be like after the boys cross over. They are the same ones who say they want to get their son into a troop that is active - I tell them a troop is as active as the boys plan for and the committee/SM supportive of. Its so much easier (for me) in Girl Scouts where it is 'girl led' (to varying degrees depending on age) from day 1.

What if - an event was held (say a canoe event) and no tour permit was filed, and an accident occured...who would be held liable? The SM? The CO? Other adult Scouters present? I have heard of packs/troops doing things without submitting the permit and have often wondered who was at risk when this occured.

Sctmom, I was starting to think that Scouts (boy and girl) was my social life! lol I agree with the no-quit rule for things my kids join. Do you folks mean for the year or for the long term? My son makes a few grumblings during the year, but I am not sure what I would do if he told me he did not want to reregister. Watching this other family deal with this makes me aware I might have to handle it myself someday. I try to be flexible about balancing sports and other activities so he does not get burnt out. Rooster, I feel the way you do about knowing what is best at times. I believe that scouting is very right for my son even if he may not always think so.

I like Sagerscouts ideas (and will use them soon when I bridge a bunch of my girls from Brownies to Juniors!). I also like Bob Whites method of not saying no but rather letting the boys do the research. I am in a new troop with my son and I am afraid that this troop does not fully employ the patrol method. How can I convince the current committee and SM to try some of these methods? The SM has been in scouts a long time and does not always follow the current BSA way but rather the '20 years ago' way. I do not want to alienate the adults I will be working with but I do want the program to be run the way it should.

We have a boy in our troop who has told my son he wants to quit Scouts but his parents won't let him quit. You would never guess this based on his actions because he seems to enjoy the activities as much as, or more than, a lot of the other boys. His complaint seems to be that scouting interferes with all the other stuff he wants to do (sports and social life). He is 12 years old. His mother has told me that scouts is the only thing she makes him do (besides doing his best in school) and all the other stuff he elects to do is optional. What do you think about this? I have mixed feelings...on the one hand I think boys should not be made to participate in things they do not want to do, on the other hand, scouts is such good preparation for life and has so many benefits. The strange thing is, whenever I see this boy he seems to be enjoying himself immensely, but his mother said he has a fit if a campout or something interferes with his sports or social activities, even though she has been pretty flexible about letting him balance everything out. There have been times when my own son has complained about the same type of thing and I am not sure what I would do if he wanted to quit.

I have never read anything in any BSA literature that requires a boy to attend any kind of religious service. Being reverent and doing their duty to God does not mean attending 'non-demoninational' services, but rather to be true to their spiritual beliefs. A Scout can be reverent and do his duty to God without being a member of any organized religion.

My council is in a different state (and time zone) than where we live. My district as well covers 2 states and time zones. This drives us all crazy - everyone has to always figure out which states time we are going by for different events, different states have different laws, things always seem focused on the state where the council resides (for example Scouting for Food drop off locations).

I have never heard of such a policy. In my troop there are many Eagle badges counseled by those within our troop. If that was not the case, chances are the boys may have trouble finding counselors, as our district listings are outdated by several years!

If all of these badges are going to be updated, this can be a big expense for a troop to purchase all of the new books. While keeping up to date is a good thing, it would be nice if National came up with an idea to make the changes less costly for troops. The changes are available for free on the USSCOUTS website, but this does not include the entire pamphlet.