momof7scouts

Thank all of you for your advice. I am going to have him submit the packet one more time, asking for specifics, in writing, on what else he needs to do. Then, if son two makes requested changes and is still rejected, SM Dad can take it up further channels. We just don't want to make long term enemies for the sake of sons three (another life), four (a first class) and five (a webelos II).

I MADE A MISTAKE! I thought he was the DAC as well because he mentioned he was, but that was in the past. He is now just the Eagle adviser. My husband just explained that in our district, this was not true in the previous district we were in five years ago, the boys do not take their packets to the DAC, the Eagle adviser does. Now when my older son did this five years ago, in a different district, he had to take it and present it himself. This Eagle adviser said he has a 100% first time pass rate and he is not going to take a packet in that he does not think is certain to pass the first time.

Wow, this is complicated! The troop eagle adviser also happens to be the DAC. We are just blessed he works with our troop as eagle adviser as well. The supposed benefit to this is that once he approves it, it is guaranteed to be approved all the way up. The signature issue is confusing for me but he had the signatures done in the order they were listed in the packet. He first got the one from the benefiting organization, after all, if they did not want the project done, the rest would be pointless. Then he got the unit committee member and an assistant scout master, since his dad is scout master. Then he submitted it to the Eagle Adviser/DAC. No official work has been done on the project but one of the EA/DAC's first comments was that he needed to list who was willing to commit to help with the project, so he contacted cub scout packs, a brownie troop, and the four martial arts schools he teaches at to get them to commit to help. All of these groups are about to back out of helping because he asked them two months ago and they wanted to do this by their meeting before Christmas at the latest. The EA/DAC sometimes has just tossed it back and said, "More details", then after more details were added, "Not good enough". Every once in a while it is more specific as in the case of the above or when told to make a section on exactly what leadership qualities are being displayed in each step of the project. His father is the scoutmaster, which causes more problems than it solves. If he were just a dad, he could advocate for his son. As the SM, advocating for his son is interpreted by some as undue pressure or abuse of power, which was a major issue in this troop before we joined. Not really sure what happened but had something to do with 13 year old Eagles. My son has been pushing his own project and dealing with it on his own. Y'all are the first people I have addressed this to, and he is unaware I am doing this. I am just looking for a direction to point him. He has met with the EA/DAC on four occasions and has e-mailed the various versions of his packet with changes to him sometimes twice a week trying to nail down this down. He has a checklist for Eagle Scout Project Approval, a sample of what the planning details should include, as well as the actual guidelines provided in the workbook and he has met all of these requirements. The EA/DAC did meet with him before he even submitted this idea on a previous project idea. He had about 30 hours into the planning of the project, meeting with a park ranger to work on it, when he first met this man. He looked at the proposal and said it would never be approved. (We later found out that two scouts from another district are indeed doing the same project.) So, he spent about half an hour discussing other possible projects and what was doable and what was not. When this idea came up, he said it was doable and so my son moved forward on it, not doing the project but planning and writing it up. So, I am assuming it is not the concept but the proposal that is the issue and since he has followed all the guidelines, I was hoping to find somewhere I could direct him to find further explanations so he could get something written up that would satisfy this man. As I read the few Eagle projects I could actually find written up on the web, as well as those I have hands on access to, I found that my son's is more detailed than the vast majority, so there must be something else wrong with it but he is not getting very specific critiques and does not know what to do at this point. I have to be honest, at first it seemed pretty well written and straight-forward to me. As he has continued to add more detail and description, not only has it become ridiculously long, but it is getting confusing to follow, and there is a great deal of repetition. Again, as an example, on the safety issues, he addresses the exact same issues in three different places because he explains them at each stage as they relate, then summarizes at the end of the planning stage, then he was told to have a whole section just discussing safety. There are no power tools, no electricity, no transportation provided, no food provided, and he has two safety trained leaders willing to be on site at the final stage of the project.

Even a 15 year old honor student is no match for a very large, very intimidating, 60 year old man who tosses his packet back at him and says, "Nope, not good enough." with little in the area of explanation. It is a scout led troop, even when they screw up and don't plan correctly, they suck it up. Like not planning for enough food on a camping trip, got stuck with peanut butter and bread from the cracker barrel for the rest of the camp out. The point is that the project is well planned, covers everything required according to all BSA guidelines we could find, and it is still being rejected with comments about using the pronoun "I" too much, adding extra sections not listed in the guidelines such as one on how he shows leadership in each stage of the project. Each stage lists exactly what he is doing and who he is supervising/training etc. already. He is on his sixth version of the packet. It is currently 25 pages long and will be longer when he adds this next section to it.

He is the district eagle adviser and the eagle adviser to the troop. There is no maturity issue with my son. He made life scout at 12. He has been a patrol leader, asst. patrol leader, ASPL, and Den Chief. He is a third degree black belt who has been teaching martial arts since he was 11. He also is a teacher's aide, teaching PE to 1st graders. He has followed the guidelines for the project plan according to what the BSA has written. It is hard to find examples of approved projects to see if there is something he is missing. Comparing his to his brother's there is not. We tried to use the only other district eagle adviser but she said since he started the project with the other one, he needed to finish it with him.

I have one son who made Eagle five years ago. I have a second son working on it now. Two months ago he came up with the initial idea and asked the Eagle adviser for the ok to go ahead, which was given. He now has about forty pages to his project book, still unapproved, and has put in 40 hours working on it at this point. Initially, it was a simple explanation, that became more and more detailed. Comparing it to my first son's project, only five years ago, son number two has written a college level business proposal. Son number one's proposal was approved first time around at each step. Son number two got all the signatures, including from the benefiting organization, only to have the adviser tell him that even though the scope of the project is not changing, just the details, none of the signatures count. The before picture was even rejected because it was not of an empty box in the lobby of the homeless shelter but of the shelter itself. First he was told he needed more details. Then information needed to be organized differently. Then he needed to include more on safety issues, no tools or electricity are being used, no group transportation, so not sure what to address other than that not using these. Then he used the word "I" too many times. Then, he needed not just to estimate the number of people and hours but total man hours. Now, it is so long, he needs a separate section explaining how he is demonstrating leadership at each stage. He was actually told the first of October that he probably would not get it approved until January or later! Here are some of the problems: #1 He was told to actually list the agencies/organizations who would commit to helping with the project though he could not let them actually help yet. He did this, enlisting aid from cub scouts, brownies, and others. Now these groups, who planned on doing this as a Christmas service project, are telling him if he cannot get it approved before the end of November, they are going to back out. #2 The purpose of the project is to provide backpacks filled with winter necessities for the homeless. The purpose will be moot if he cannot start until January or February. They will be needing swimsuits not sleeping bags. #3 He is 15 years old and getting discouraged. After the last rejection, he tossed the project on the table and said, "This is hopeless, I will never make Eagle." #4 He is an honor student, makes A's in English, and is a member of the National Honor Society, so he is not a slacker in the writing department. How in the world do others get through this? My husband is the scout master and is about to lose his cool on this. He asked the last few scouts who made Eagle what the most memorable part of the project was and all said the nightmare of dealing with project approval! This is just sad that the leadership is doing this to the scouts. Fewer and fewer boys are even attempting to earn the award and many quit once their project is rejected a few times. Is there any appeal process for this? My son can't even get to district with his project! Thank you