momof2cubs

WAKWIB: exactly. Where does it end?

Since a young age, my youngest son preferred drawing to playing ball, dolls to trains, and play kitchens to racetracks. Does that mean he is a girl trapped in a boy's body? How would he even know about being a girl?? Everyone called him by his male name, used male pronouns, and I dressed him in boy clothes. He is not a girl. He just preferred doing "girly" stuff. I didn't sign him up for girl scouts, he is in Cub Scouts. Because I am not an attention grabbing fool. The only way this boy identified himself as a girl is because he lives with his mom and his sister and no dad and his mom took his tendency towards "girly" things as a sign that he is female. What a load of horse puck. To say that his mother messed him up royally is to put it mildly.

When my youngest was in his Tiger year, one dad insisted on being the den leader. He had visions of one on one time spent with his son on a worthwhile activity. The divorce was final and the custody terms pretty set. We even set up den meetings on Monday nights because it was the only night he had his kids. No problem. What actually ended up happening is that he also had to bring his daughter to the meetings. Ok, mild inconvenience (the girl hated it), but it could be dealt with. But in addition, he couldn't attend go see its on not-his-weekends (his ex wife wouldn't bring the kid and wouldn't allow dad to attend if she did) and could not attend pack meetings on Tuesday nights (wife would occasionally bring the kid, but wouldn't allow dad to be there if she did because it was "her" day). At the end of the year they both dropped out of scouts. Like a previous poster said, I'm no Dr Phil and we are not qualified to get involved with this. Let it be. It's a shame for the boy, but not something we can do anything about. And getting involved could result in very unpleasant things. Like being called into court (think it can't happen? I was summoned once as a witness in a divorce case - I was the Sunday School volunteer teacher and mom's lawyer thought I could be a good witness to the fact that she brought her well-adjusted children to church every Sunday)

moosetracker: I'm not the helicopter type. I will definitely not be attending my child's college (or job) interviews with him nor will I be calling his college professors if I think he didn't get graded fairly. I don't even do that now if he is having differences of opinions with his elementary school teachers or coaches or sunday school teachers. However, while I expect the BoR to thoroughly test my child's knowledge and skills, I do not expect a BoR to be condescending and/or insulting. And those types of questions are condescending at best and insulting at worst. That child's mother should be extremely proud of her son. He handled a tough situation with grace and he deserves every single feather of that Eagle rank.

I don't think the adults in that room acted in a very scout like manner. What's wrong with a kid having a goal? What's wrong with a boy being an "achiever"? What's wrong with a boy that is applying himself and met all the requirements by age 14??? There's NOWHERE in the rules that says there's a minimum age for eagle. My kid only has about 4 or 5 webelos pins to go before he gets all 20 (he crosses over in March). Would these people imply that my kid has nothing else going on his life? Would they dare imply that he's an overachiever? (as if that is a bad thing). Would they imply my kid is just ticking off tasks and not really getting into the true meaning of scouting? If that had been my kid at that BoR I would have had a thing or two to say to those people afterwards. It smacked of a condescending attitude towards a boy that worked hard, did all his work, and now wants recognized. What's the problem? Did he achieve more than you did at his age? Or is it that your kid didn't make it until he was 17.99 years old so you think no one else could? PS: the "you" in my last sentence is not YOU, it's a general "you" towards the people sitting on that BoR.

Scoutlass: tell me more about this "segment patches"? I've never heard of it! And me an awards chair! I'd love to know about this incentive. Parents are, in my opinion, the key reason boys don't earn rank. If they don't take them to the meetings, if they don't work with them at home, if they don't show up at events..well.. It makes me sad.

I don't think there's necessarily a "best" day for pack or den meetings. It has a lot to do with what's going on your community. For instance in our neighborhood, troops meet on Monday nights. Don't know why, but they do. So we don't want to have pack or den meetings that day to avoid conflicts. Same with Thursdays, because those are district nights for roundtable and training. Wednesdays tend to be bad because of church activities for many folks around here. So that only leaves Fridays (bad night - people are winding down, busy, tired, out of town) and Tuesdays (when we have our pack meetings). As for the dens, they are all over the place. One of mine meets on Tuesdays to be consistent with pack meetings. But my webelos den meets Sunday afternoons. The boys are involved in so many sports that not one week night worked out for even half of them. I hate it (Sunday should be a day of rest and family for us), I go along with it.

shortridge: you are right about that, it may not be an exclusive boy issue..but it is manifesting itself in the boys more. When I am reviewing stuff with my son for an upcoming test, he has to walk around, jump, move his arms, and even demonstrate (i.e. how sharks swim) while reciting. Some girls are like that too (I was), but they are more likely to be able to sit quietly for longer periods of time than boys. SP: you got a point there too. Mommas tend to become very controlling in trying to ensure their cubs eat and that they eat well. While I still do this with my Bear, I am letting go with my Webelos II. He's learning at camping that he eats what's presented (or helped cook) or he goes hungry. And sasha: maybe. We do generalize, but probably for a reason.

qwaze: I have heard it from several parents who have daughters and sons that they sure wished their daughters could join boy scouts. I will not be in favor of that. I think that as it was pointed out, girls are better organizers and they will take over troop/patrol leadership. That doesn't make girls "witches" (without the "w"). It's just that specially in middle school the maturity gap between boys and girls is HUGE. It means they are better at organizing things. And honestly, I get this weird feeling that they would get stuck also with the crappy jobs at camping, like cleaning and cooking. (I've seen this in cub scouts at the adult level - NEVER a male grubmaster do we have) And my other fear is that BSA will pander to the girls a lot more and knot tying will give way to knitting, wood carving will give way to scrapbooking. And gawd! that does sound bad when I say it out loud, but I think you know what I mean. I want my sons to experience boy scouts as it is and have the opportunity to be themselves without girls in ONE are of his life. They live in a co-ed world in all other ways. Including at home!

At a dinner party last weekend, we were just discussing this. It was more related to the fact that we believed that boys were being left behind in the educational process in the zealotry for making sure girls don't. These days, young boys are required to sit still FOR HOURS in the classroom. When they cannot (because they are BOYS!!), they get labeled disruptive or worse (ADD/ADHD). I think this has a lot to do with how they behave later on in life. And why I so very strongly believe in Boy Scouts remaining an all boy organization. I want it to remain that way so that it is tailored to them and they get a chance to shine and learn leadership skills. A few weeks ago my son and I visited a troop. That particular day, the had more middle school boys than high school boys due to a band event at the local high school. At one point during the meeting they were singing some wild song and dancing and jumping like monkeys (having a great time) and it struck me how much boys need this. I also commented to another (male) leader that THIS is why boy scouts has to remain for boys. One single girl would have completely changed this dynamic and the boys wouldn't have been able to let off steam and act like themselves! PS: in case it is not obvious and I get anti-feminist comments, let me point out that my handle here points out that I am in fact, a woman.

During my district's family camping this is a regular occurrence. We have watched Follow Me Boys and Down and Derby a couple of times during family camping. They do it outside, it's cold and we sit in the cold hard floor during the movie. I think that qualifies for outing in scouting since it is cold, outside, and uncomfortable. As camping should be. (yeah that was tongue in cheek)

SMT: you asked, "what's the hurry?" I never have been a SM or even a CM. I won't have a kid in boy scouts till next year. However, I think that the purpose of that little line in the advancement guide is not so much about advancement as it is about motivation. I can't really speak for all boys, but mine get motivated to do well when..they do well! I know it sounds confusing, but what I mean is that if they are advancing at a steady pace (and at least in my area, with the troops we have visited so far, 1st class in the 1st year seems to be the norm and considered a steady pace), they remain motivated to keep advancing. I have observed in cub scouts that when a boy gets recognitions early on in the form of belt loops, pins, patches, etc, they remain motivated to stay in the program and earn more. Now, it could be the chicken or the egg. Maybe they earn more stuff because they stay or maybe they stay because they earn more stuff. Making 1st class in the 1st year and a rank a year after that doesn't seem "pushy" to me. That means that they will make star and possibly life by the end of 8th grade or 14 years old. Then they have all of high school to work on eagle and palms. We all know that when the boys get to high school, scouting looses some if its charm due to the 'fumes. So why not grab when we can? Why not motivate them with advancing at a steady pace? Why not give them the extra time in high school to finish eagle because "you are so close"? If they are only star in 9th grade..they see the road as too steep and maybe they give up? And I know what you are gonna say: "eagle is supposed to be hard", "it's not about rank, but about learning and growing". Well you are right. But my goal as a parent is to get my kid as ready as I possibly can for college and life. Isn't that why we are ALL here?

qwazse: That was actually my plan. I told the CC that I would not approve of any change in fees until we know why we need to do that. And I am going to keep asking for reports in open forum.

Basement: the answer to all your questions is yes. But as far as the budget goes, I have no idea. That's why I am making a stink about this.

Beavah, no one and least of all me needs to know who is paying what and when. Not that this is an issue in our pack. Any kind of financial arrangement with a parent is extremely rare. It hardly ever happens. What I want to know is much simpler. I want a simple report. Something like this (numbers are made up): Registration fees: $8,500 BSA fee: $1,500 Net Income: $6,000 Books: $1,000 Neckerchiefs: $ 500 T-shirts: $ 500 Available for Op Costs: $4,000 And then on a month to month basis, how much money we are spending on awards, pack supplies, etc. I am not sure that this is too much to ask. No one is asking for details as to why (for instance) registration income is $8,500 or $7,000.

You all have confirmed it. As my CM put it: "it's a volunteer position, I cannot MAKE her do it". For the record, I do no suspect embezzlement; but I suspect that she actually has NO idea where the money is going and doesn't want to take the time to find out. I'm reluctant to bring the COR into it..but I might. What I will do is keep asking, in public forum during committee meetings, until I see it. I already told the CM that this isn't going away. Thanks!

I need some advice. Starting some time middle of the school year last year, our treasurer started making a lot of noises about our Pack being over budget. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it, because...well, I didn't think it my place really. Now, since the beginning of this school year, it is NON-STOP talk about how we cannot sustain our pack and consequently they have raised the prize for fall family camping and the treasurer is making noises about raising registration fees, cutting back on what awards the pack pays for, and on and on and on. So last month I told our CC that I had pretty much had it with the over budget complaints and that I, as a committee member (as well as ALL other committee members) have the right to take a look at the budget and the right to have some kind of report that shows where the money is going. So far all the CC and the CM have encountered is resistance from the treasurer about providing said reports. So common sense says that committee members have the right to look at the books. But I am tired of the resistance and I want to throw the book at her. So my question would be: where could I look for some written rule that says that the treasurer is REQUIRED to show the books to committee members? Is that something that each pack determines on its own? Say in the by-laws?

SO you guys allow people to drop off their wolf and bears for den and pack meetings?

Maybe you are doing something right? Word of mouth is a powerful tool, and it only takes one or two boys to brag about how much fun they are having at (your) pack and den meetings to start an avalanche. If I were you, I'd give myself a well deserved pat in the back. Maybe talk to the parents informally see if they let anything slip. Maybe there's something seriously wrong with the other 2 packs, but my guess is that it is a combination of you having a "cool" pack and one or two popular, leader-type boys transferring over and bringing in their friends.

I had to think about it, because my first instinct is to say, "Not a dang thing we couldn't do ourselves"..but that's a bit harsh. So I'll start with the things they do that I think are great: 1. Cub Scout Day Camp: superbly organized event in my opinion..both from the point of view of a parent, and a volunteer, 2. Family Camping: they do a pretty good job of this. Twice a year, Fall and Spring. 3. Misc. Training: they offer cub scout level training for pretty much all required training about twice a year, BALOO training, CPR, whatever is required for water stuff, den chief. At the boy scout level, they do more stuff, but I am not there yet. 4. A few events available to the cubs. Not many. And the ones they DO offer to the cubs, they also offer to the boy scouts. So my MAIN gripe with district is the fact that they treat Cub Scouts like the red-headed step-child. This is more an attitude than anything, and it is hard to provide specific examples. But I do know they offer way more events, training, and camping opportunities for the boy scouts than they do for the cub scouts.

Yeah we like to separate the men from the boys early on! Of course I meant painTing.

We call it the Hobo dinner and we hold it in place of our October pack meeting. We hold it at a local park and we have our bobcat paining ceremony at the same time.

Tiger Leaders DO exist! Maybe a pack does it somewhat differently, but I cannot imagine having a bunch of newbie parents thrown in together at a Tiger den meeting without some direction! In our pack, we hold a Tiger orientation meeting where we tell them that we need an X number of leaders for the Y number of dens we are forming. Some step up right away, some we have to convince, some say they will do it if and only if they have a good co-leader (we encourage the co-leader method as opposed to leader and asst.) Another KEY thing our pack does is assign seasoned leaders as mentor to each den. It helps get the program going.

I'm sorry Ann. Basement's question is valid. But it doesn't help your situation right now. Advancement Chair is my position in my pack and I think it's the best one. It's about shopping! YAY!. Ok, I jest somewhat. But it cannot be *too* hard to find someone to do it? At the cub level it's not all that difficult. If you use Packmaster (which you really should), it's all about sending e-mails to the leaders telling them to enter the awards by (enter your deadline each month), then printing the report, and going to the shop. Oh and putting them in envelopes for the boys. And distributing them at pack meetings. Ok...it's more work than I though when you write it all out.

Basement: Atlanta Area Council has separate resident camps for Wolf/Bears and Webs. The Webs are separate weeks and do not require a 1:1 ratio. So that makes more sense and the dads kinda draw straws or work it out for one or two to attend for 3 nights/4 days. The Wolf/Bears resident camps are on a separate week and require one adult for one kid. I find it ridiculous and now I am even more annoyed that it is just a local council rule and not a BSA rule. I did not know that. ugh.