momof2cubs

I haven't used Troopmaster, but I use Packmaster (same, but for cubs). As awards chair I'd go BANANAS without it.

clemlaw: I believe it. With all the "red shirting" that's going on these days and holding boys back that have summer birthdays, I wouldn't be surprised if BSA changed the max age to something like "18 years old OR high school graduation, whichever comes last" Boy would that cause a lot of controversy.

Scoutfish: I have heard of parents doing it. Not something I think I could do. For the reasons you mentioned. Plus it doesn't seem right. I thought about becoming a den leader myself. I already had YPT since I hold the Awards Chair position in my pack and it was also required for volunteering at the Scout Day Camp (how much fun was that!) But today I had some free time and went ahead and did all the required on-line training. So I am officially "trained". That's right scouts: be afraid..be very afraid!!! But I haven't decided yet. As you can probably guess, I am not my son's den leader's favorite person. I'm afraid it might cause friction.

Yeah, I hear ya. I won't be able to do much about that. Although I have heard of some parents that won't let their sons get their driver's license until they make Eagle. Not sure I can go for that. But you gotta admit it's a powerful motivator: without the license, there is not any car fumes, and it makes it difficult to chase the perfumes. LOL

I'm sure it can. Given a motivated scout, I have heard of boys as young as 13 and 14 getting it. While I know my kid is motivated NOW, a lot can change during the teen years. As I heard it from a good friend of mine, they become "girl scouts" if you know what I mean. Like I said, that's a minor consideration right now. Main reason I originally asked is because he's very motivated NOW, he's older than his peer, he has several friends crossing over this year, and I have concerns (previously mentioned) with his den leader. I really didn't want him to cross over entirely at the end of this year, but I had envisioned a double program: Web IIs and Boy Scouts.

That's a possibility. Thanks!

reqsman: the Eagle thing is just one minor consideration. As i stated in other posts, there are other reasons why I am considering it.

Oh yes there's tons of packs in our area. We are very blessed that way. However, no I wouldn't like to do that. First of all, my pack is awesome. Second of all, my younger son's den is also awesome and dealing with two different packs for the two kids would just be very complicated. Yes I know that when oldest crosses over there will be two different units. But there is a different level of parent involvement when it comes to a troop vs. a pack. I'm still debating my options. We will probably just stick it out and I will just have to be "that parent" and provide extras for the den on my own. I have the backing of my CM and my CC (lol they are husband and wife and great people) on this one, so que sera, sera as far as what the den leader thinks.

To CC: I haven't asked him YET what he would like to do. I really didn't want to ask him until I could give him all the pros and cons, and frankly I am still very torn. I am not sure he's ready for Boy Scouts yet. You said that boys don't notice if things aren't perfect, and for the most part, that is true. However, my son has already complained to me that the Web 1s "don't do the fun things that the Web 2s did last year...we miss out on everything!" That's a quote and kinda true. One of his best buddies is a Web 2. The Web 2s in my pack have been blessed with awesome leadership and their program is lots of fun and very robust. Our den leader does what he does well, but he doesn't provide a lot of extras; only minimum necessary. My CM recommended that I be the one that provides the extras, and I just might and let the chips fall where they may. LOL, maybe you'll see a post here about "how do I handle a meddling parent". To Kathy: he has several friends that will be crossing over this year. When the whole pack is together, you will see my kid gravitating towards the Web 2s a whole lot more than towards his den mates. Not that he doesn't have friends in his den, but he feels closer to the web 2s. Part of it is that I am friends with the adults in the Web 2 dens and they get to spend time together outside of scout activities. I am still weighting options and haven't really decided. I am very torn. Particularly because while I think he could handle many aspects of BS and have fun, I don't think he's quite ready to completely take care of himself at BS overnight outings.

I think you are being a little harsh. In Cub Scouts, it's "do your best". If your son shot and tried, I think he deserves it. Just my opinion.

Here's where they are ALL listed: http://65.38.184.167/advance/cubscout/a-sindex.asp For future reference, I find that archery and BB gun are usually very well completed. Since these two can only be done in certain conditions, they range certified leaders tend to make darn sure they are actually completed.

Interesting. I have NO experience with GS. I wasn't one and I only have 2 sons. However, I was under the impression that there is some flack against BSA for making it a boy only organization. It was my understanding that a lot of parents of girls were very interested in boy scouts because it is a more "robust" program than GS. I guess they were wrong.

I'm not a fan of the Video Games loop. The reason is that it seems like once you have something like that, anything could be a belt loop. Hand washing loop, TV watching loop, Internet loop? However, the BSA (in its infinite wisdom) has decided it is a loop. And I really don't think it right for a pack to deny a boy a loop. These are young boys. To deny them that because we think is silly will sour him, upset him, and more likely than not, annoy the parent. It's not worth it. What we CAN do is offer and promote lots of the ones we "like" via belt loop bonanzas, by offering them during pack meetings and den meetings, or through activities at camping, etc. That way the boys get excited and are exposed to some of the "finer" aspects of scouting. Denying a belt loop because you don't agree with it is just wrong.

Is there a rule that says dens HAVE to meet at any given place? In our pack, pack meetings are all held together at our school's cafeteria. However, dens meet at different times and places. Some meet in people's homes, some meet in parks, library meeting rooms, etc depending on the activity. Is this not an option?

"I think formally helping out (i.e. by signing up to be Assistant Den Leader) would help." It might be an option, and one my CM has suggested a couple of times. The thing is: I DO try to help as much as I can (for one). For two: my husband is the den leader of our other son's den (which means I help out there A LOT) AND I am also the Awards Chair for our pack. Not saying I couldn't do more, just saying my plate is pretty full. Yes, I know that there are plenty of people in Scouts that do lots more than that. And also, I am very worried that a formal position will cause even more friction than there already is.

"As leaders we only want whats best for your son." This is true for 95% of the leaders in my pack. They are mostly an awesome and dedicated bunch. It is not, however, true for my my oldest son's leader. The only reason he is doing it is to benefit his kid. If an activity doesn't benefit his child, he won't do it. In my previous post, I mentioned how he didn't show up to the pack meeting. The reason was his kid wanted to go to a different activity being held at our school at the same time.

Snow White: you are right, see my above posts in re: discussing it with our CM. And I suppose you could be right about the patrol thing, but my pack calls them patrols. *shrugs* I didn't have anything to do with that custom. Kbandit: you raise extremely valid points. There were good reasons we held him back. They had a whole lot more to do with emotional/social maturity than with academics. So your points are very well taken: he might not be ready emotionally and socially to be part of a troop. Our CM who has known him since he was 5 told me to consider the same thing. For instance: the summer between his 2nd and 3rd grade he went to a non-scout overnight summer camp for a week. He was mostly fine aside from some very minor home sickness episodes. So at the end of his bear year (3rd grade), I felt he would be just fine going to a the weekend Webelos Woods. And yet, even though he came back and reported he had a grand time, his CM (who went) told me they had to talk to him a couple of times because he started crying wanting to go home. This was last Spring. Maybe he's grown some, maybe he hasn't. A lot to consider. Frankly, one of the MAIN reasons I am even considering having him cross over at the end of his web 1 year is because his den leader is very lazy and not providing what *I* consider a full scouting experience, despite my repeated efforts and offers to help him out. In a for instance: last pack meeting he simply did not show up and didn't tell anyone he wouldn't be coming. Our boys were standing around with nothing to do during the gathering activity. I had to be the one to scramble and find some supplies for the boys to do their activity. This sounds like a small and petty thing, but it is very indicative of his regular behavior. And no, there aren't any other web 1 dens in our pack, so we don't have the option of transferring unless we switch packs, which I really don't want to do. (neither does my son)

ScoutNut: apparently u are right about that. My CM says they will give it to him if he earns it. It just doesn't happen very often because of the way our pack structures our web years. I.e. they don't start visiting troops until the web 2 year, etc. Nothing stopping a cub from doing it on his own, but they just don't do it as dens until then. Also in re: patrol leader. Our pack calls web dens patrols. The leaders should still be called den leaders of course. But my son's den is actually called the Flaming Arrows Patrol. Some packs do that and they wear the patrol badges the scouts do.

Eagle: you are absolutely right and in fact I just called my CM (we are good friends) and had a long chat. He explained a few pros and cons, but he also told me that assuming my kid completes the AOL requirements they will award it to him at the ceremony in March and he *could* cross over. Of course, there are several other factors to consider if you are thinking about skipping web 2s. So.. Thanks!!!!

So u are saying he couldn't work on his AOL next year (5th grade) at the same time he is in a boy scout troop? Once he joins a boy scout troop his cub scouting days are over? Even if he IS eligible for both? AOL requirements: be active in your webelos den for at least six months since completing the 4th grade OR AT least 6 months since becoming 10 years old AND earn the webelos badge (the second part of the "or" and the earning of webelos badge will happen in February of next year while he is in 4th grade) Scouts badge requirements: Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18. (OR IS AGE 11 will be true as of the summer between his 4th and 5th grade) He will NOT be awarded AOL in 4th grade even he does complete all the requirements because that's not the way our pack does it. So in other words, he CANNOT cross over "formally" until the web 2 year (5th grade)

"But why would he want to be? He does not have to have AOL to become a Boy scout.. " Because he wants to earn AOL. It's an important event and a big accomplishment. He doesn't want to miss it and frankly, neither do I. He's worked hard for it. My pack will not award AOLs to web 1s. We hold an AOL/crossover ceremony for web 2s in March.

I have a "rules" question. My son is currently in 4th grade and Webs 1. Because he has a summer birthday we held him back a year before elementary school, so consequently he started 4th grade as a 10 year old and will start 5th grade at 11 years old. According to the Boy Scout rules (as I understand them), he could apply to a troop even though he is in 5th grade..because he WILL be 11. My question is this: is it possible for him to join a boy scout troop AND still belong to his pack/patrol as Web 2 next year? I wouldn't want him to skip the Web 2 year because it's important and because that's when my pack works on most of the AOL requirements. But also, I sorta want him to get a "head start" on boy scouting, since he will only have until the end of his junior year in high school to complete all eagle requirements. Effectively he would have 6 months to a year less time than most boys. There are other reasons too: he's very motivated, one of his best buddies will be crossing over this year, and his patrol leader is not very "demanding" and is only doing the minimum amount necessary to get the boys to earn rank and AOL without many extras and fun stuff that makes the Webelos years so great. As an example of his scouting "fervor": as of November (right now) of his web 1 year he has already earned 10 webelos activity pins (half on his own, signed off of course by his patrol leader), has completed all requirements for webelos rank with the exception of the faith (we are working on it) and most of the AOL requirements, except for troop visits since my pack does those during the web 2 year. This is all on HIM, not me, I assure you. So don't think me a pushy mom