momof2cubs

I think I found it: http://www.folsompack94.org/leaders/forms/BragVest1.pdf But I am so dense about sewing, this looks to me like you need to cut TWO of these patterns and sew them together? Is that right?

No credit can be given for any activity done BEFORE a boy joined scouts. But credit CAN be given for an activity done anytime a boy is a scout even if that activity was not done specifically to earn credit. For instance, both my sons play flag football every fall. They don't specifically do this to earn the Flag Football belt loop, but yes the loop is earned in the process because they do all the requirements during the season. (I don't submit for a belt loop every season since I consider it pointless, but you *could*) However, if a boy plays flag football in the fall and doesn't join scouting until the winter, no he may not earn his belt loop, since he was NOT a scout at the time.

Touche EagleDad. But I actually think this is great. Wish we could accept C/c payments for popcorn so people outside of Walmart couldn't tell the boys "sorry, i have no cash on me"

"We always tell Scouts, "It's not the destination, it's the journey." Does anyone really belive that anymore?" NO. I'll tell you why I think that, and some of it's the parent's fault but some of it is not. First of all, I agree 100% that scouting is not all about getting to Eagle as fast and as easy as possible. But there's another aspect to it that even the best of us can fall prey to. Life is getting (in my opinion) BEYOND competitive for young lads right now. The resources are getting more and more limited as population increases. The competition for college entrances and scholarships is FIERCE. So based on that, man I can for sure understand trying to push a kid to get his Eagle ASAP so he can move on to MORE things that will pad his college entrance resume. (4H, more competitive sporting, science competitions, and the like) And YES, I DO KNOW how awful that sounds. I do know it cheapens the experience. But I almost cannot blame some parents. After all, we all want just what's best for our kids. And sometimes we are wrong, but guess what...there are no do overs in life, are there.

qwaze: EXCELLENT speech!

In the Cubbie section, it was discussed some time ago the whole priorities thing. Meaning why is it that sometimes scouting takes a back seat to sports, etc. My gut tells me that if scouting was a "pay as you go" system, people would be much less likely to make it priority. I think that if they pay dues ahead of time, it encourages commitment (on the part of the parents I mean) to get the most of the dues that you paid. Just my $0.02..you can keep the change. Plus the whole thing could be an accounting nightmare for the poor treasurer.

Eagle you have a point about that. I haven't taken a close look at the Tiger ones, as we are past that point in my family, but I have become very familiar with the Wolf one. Let me give you a for instance. Wolf meeting #9. It says: "Achievement 5d (Show how to use a hammer). Start five or six nails into a board, then let the kids pound them in and extract them". Hmm...really??? Yeah, that covers the achievement for sure, but couldn't we make just a wee more exciting and fun? For instance, we decided to have a relay race for this. Surely that doesn't take more resources than just plainly pounding the nails and taking them out, right? Then for Ach 5e (Make a birdhouse, a set of bookends, or something else useful" they just list a set of safety guidelines. Couldn't they have included some sample projects and/or ideas? I don't mean to put down the work that the BSA folks have done on this, but surely they could have been a little more creative? I don't think that *I* personally would want to be spoon fed a meeting plan down to the minute, but I think they could have done a better job at providing more suggestions, examples, and ideas. Specially for inexperienced and/or not so creative den leaders?

SR540: that's BRILLIANT!!! I don't suppose he'd be willing to share that spreadsheet? Seems awesome!

Thank you all for your suggestions on equipment. We have been in Cub scouting for about 4 years now, so we have some basic camping supplies (i.e. big tent, small tent, mess kit, sleeping bags, etc)..you know, what you need for back seat camping. Like I said, we are still a year away from selecting the troop, but you all have giving me a good idea of the kinds of things I will need to ask a potential troop in order to be prepared. A good friend of mine whose oldest is crossing over in March recommended starting a scout savings account for our kid. She told me they pay the troop dues in March and the summer camp fee is due pretty closely after that. So we'll probably do that. She also told me that most troops in our area hold good fundraisers a couple of times a year that go a long way towards funding a lot of the trips. I feel much better now!

Honestly, I have gotten WAY more out of reading suggestions here and reading the Bugle than I ever did with those meeting plans. They struck me as the driest, simplest, and least fun way of doing the Cub program. I can recommend them as a GUIDE, but I would never tell a new leader to just follow it and nothing else. Not to criticize BSA, but those meeting guides need a lot more "oomph" in my opinion.

All of what you guys posted seems way more reasonable than what I was envisioning. Of course we are not rich, but yes I can afford say $25 to $50 a month, not counting the initial investing in equipment. Everything you guys say makes sense, and of course I was not expecting Scouting to be free. The summer camp figure threw me off, but of course $300 for a week in sleep away camp is very reasonable. Anything non-scouting for sleep away camp is around $1000 a week, so $300 is a bargain. Like I said I was intimidated by the thought of having to fork out several hundred dollars each month and it doesn't seem to be the case. Thanks for putting this inexperienced mom at ease!

Actually what you guys are saying seems MUCH more reasonable. I'm okay with $25 even $50-$100 per month for one trip. I guess in my mind I was thinking it would be more like $200 to $500 for a trip EACH MONTH and that seemed a little daunting. Seems is more like several cheaper trips and maybe 2 or 3 per year more on the pricey side. I feel better about it now, thank you!

Ok, so what you are saying is that most (not all) outings will cost about say $25? Maybe a more expensive canoe or rafting trip would be $50? I know it all depends on the troop, but I am looking here at a list of yearly events this one troop has: Climbing in December (it doesn't say where, maybe it is close and I can see it being cheaper), weekend long ski trip in jan (we live in the Atlanta, GA area--it's a TREK to the nearest possible ski place, this trip has got to be in the $100s), Backpacking in Feb (this is one probably nearby and one of the cheaper ones), 4 day trip on Spring Break to Cumberland Island Backpacking (Cumberland Island is a good 4 hours away and for a 4 day trip...this one is also probably in the $100s), 2 day Survival Campout in May (probably a cheaper one). I won't even go into the summer ones (Summer Camp, Whitewater Rafting, Aquatics Campout, Shooting Campout, etc) This is only one troop. Another one I looked at has even more, including a trip to Disney (3 days). I sure hope they include some good fundraising..but I gotta say I am a bit discouraged. I do NOT want my kid to spend most of his spare time peddling (insert usually good and useful, but woefully overpriced product here) to afford trips! I think it's because we live in an affluent area, but needless to say, we are not at that level. We sacrifice to live where we live in order to have access to good schools. Sigh.

I am sure this topic has been discussed before, but I can't find anything relevant. We are a year away from having to do troop shopping, but I have been looking around some of the troops in the area. We are very blessed around there with at least a dozen super active and exciting troops. In browsing their websites, I am in AWE at the number of outings these boys do. But also a little intimidated. It averages to about one a month! So my question is this, how do you go about paying for it??? I know boys sell popcorn, but even if they get to "keep" say 10% of it in their account, that strikes me as an ENORMOUS amount of popcorn to have to sell!! I mean, summer camp alone costs $300!!! What am I missing?

Thanks!

tdk: I am thinking of having our Webs make a vest as part of a craftsman project. Would you be so kind as to elaborate on how to make one? Remember, these are 10 year old boys...

Autstinole: I would LOVE to know. Right now they are sitting in a drawer in the kitchen desk "organizer". I would love some ideas, mainly ones that don't include sewing the dang things anywhere. I hate to sew.

This is a really sore point with me. I guess because I KNOW that den leaders put a lot of time and effort into a meeting, so it's beyond rude to only show up if there's no conflict with absolutely anything else. It's akin to accepting a dinner party invitation and not showing up after your host has bought the food and wine, slaved over the stove all afternoon, cleaned the house, and set the table for 8. I have run into this with both my sons' dens and it's the pits. One leader recently a leaders meeting suggested that we shouldn't make such a big deal out of the awards at pack meetings because it makes the ones that didn't get any "feel bad". Yeah right. The general consensus is the boys the earned the stuff earned it because they worked at it and made scouting an important part of their schedule. The ones that didn't, well..didn't. So too bad. You are not gonna get that trophy if you don't show up at the game are you? Same with scouting.

rdclements: I seem to have heard something about a Hot Chili patch something like that. I'm sure someone in here will come and put in the details, but I think it has something to do with camping in above 100 F heat. I *believe* a lot of packs/troops in texas and the like do it. I'm very fuzzy on the details On topic: I don't know what the requirements are, but I would be extremely leery of trying this at the cub level. And I basically don't see the point. Cub scouting is done by boys ages 6-10. In my opinion, too young for any kind of "endurance". It should be about enjoying the outdoors, learning new skills and HAVING FUN. Having a whole pack come down with pneumonia or colds doesn't seem to me worth a patch. And if you have enough boys miserable because they are freezing, they will never want to camp again.

We have a large(ish) pack. We have two ACMs. They both have their strengths and weaknesses and do a wonderful job at their respective areas. I think too many volunteers should NEVER be a problem! A good scouting program needs all the "readymen" it can get!

5yearscout: I am sympathetic to all your issues. However, here we are at December. I would not choose that hill to die on and deny the boys their Bear badges. If other parents' eyebrows raise, you can raise them right along and says something like"such a same, those boys think Scouting is a race". And leave it at that. However, one quote of yours struck me: "At what point is it ok to just say "hey, you don't seem to fit in with our pack program, so let's agree to disagree, here's the contact info for another pack in the area, maybe they will meet your needs more appropriately. " Answer: you have reached that point and BEYOND. It's time to have that conversation. Just make sure you have the backing of the rest of the pack leaders and an action plan for that den moving forward. In the end, everyone will be grateful. It will be somewhat painful for a bit, but this isn't about anyone's ego: IT'S ABOUT THE BOYS. Good luck!

ScoutNut: hmm, I'm betting my district requires it. I'll check. Thank you! Eagle: I can see that yes. Not worth it, in my opinion.

Wait..really? Can you tell me where you read that rule? My CM was pretty adamant we needed OWL trained adult to hold webelos den camping! If what you quoted is true, it could solve a lot of problems!

Basementsweller: First of all, I am not asking anyone to modify his program to suit my kid. This thread started because I wanted to know my options and what the rules were. Second of all, I am not "punishing" the den leader because of what I chose to do. I only pointed out that I held back my kid to explain why he would be eligible to cross over in 4th grade and to explain my concerns about his scout career being shorter than most scouts since he will turn 18 the summer after his junior year in high school(which turns out is irrelevant anyways). My concerns with this den leader stem from other issues. For instance, the fact that he doesn't show up to pack meetings and doesn't tell anyone about it so we can prepare. Or the fact that he is not planning on having webelos overnights because he won't get BALOO training. Or the fact that he only plans to cover 8 webelos pins over the course of 2 years. Or the fact that he has refused (or greatly resisted) my offers to help make the program more fun and robust. Or that he almost quit the program entirely at the end of the bear year when I offered to become his assistant leader. I only want what's best for my child and I want to help the den be all that it can be. Since I am being thwarted in my efforts, I posted here to get some options and opinions. (which were great btw, thank you all!)

clemlaw: oh good grief..i can really see it though. Scoutfish: that's pretty much what my CM said.