momof2cubs

Scoutfish: well, that was an education. You saying 400 degrees, doesn't mean anything..how hot is hot coffee supposed to be? I mean, what the temperature of coffee from your coffeemaker? But yeah, I see your point. But you knew it was just an example. I'm sure there are thousands of frivolous lawsuits being filled every year. And BSA is no exception. I know that 99% of those rules are CYA.

Blanc said: "Funny, I thought BSA came up with the Health & Safety rules in order to assist us with providing a safe program and reducing the chances of injury to those youth in our charge." I'm not that naive.

Not every pack meets all together. In fact most don't. So for those packs, it's irrelevant what the other dens are doing. Having said that, the den meetings listed on the leadership guide do not have to be done in the same order! You can do Wolf Meeting 1 and Bear Meeting 4 in the same month. They can be adjusted to be in any order that is convenient for you. Lastly, do not fall in the trap of planning everyone's year. Den leaders should do their own calendars based on their individual dens needs/availability. You don't have to say: "In your Dens you've been talking about Honesty" You can say, "This month's core value is Honesty" It doesn't matter what they have been working on as a den.

Basement, I was the coordinator this year for cub day camp for my pack. District required a 1:4 ratio from each pack. I did actually turned people away when the ratio got over. And guess what, I HATED DOING THAT (caps for emphasis, not yelling) Next year I am actually doing something different. I will give priority to kids whose parents (if they are not volunteering this year) have volunteered for day camp in the recent past, then next are the kids whose parents regularly volunteer to run/help/organize pack activities throughout the year. After that, everyone else on a 1st come, 1st served, based on the available spots. But here's the thing: it's harsh! I am not sure what the solution is..I really don't. But I do know the girls do things VERY differently and the need for volunteers is MUCH MUCH MUCH lower. I am not saying they don't use volunteers, I am just saying they don't need so dang many!

Like I said before, if we didn't live in the land of the suing happy lawyer, perhaps BSA wouldn't need such ridiculous rules. And actually, it's getting to the point where I am truly surprised that BSA even allows any kind of outdoor or even active indoor activity anymore. No offense to all the lawyers in this forum, but I sure wish there were consequences to frivolous suing and I sure wish juries weren't so dang lenient with awarding dumb people for getting burnt with hot coffee.

Trainerlady, you make EXCELLENT points. Truthfully, most people only get two weeks off a year and as my husband put it: "I love scouting and I don't mind volunteering, but it sure as heck isn't gonna cost me a vacation week." And in my particular case, for the next two summers, I will have one cub and one scout. How can I go with him to camp? What do I do with my other son? Put him in daycare? I have recently heard that girl scouts go off on their own at camp as soon as they turn 7. BLEW MY MIND when in scouts my sons can't even go to a den meeting without me. I think it's time to re-examine the whole set up.

I haven't read all the responses but I will tell you this: it balances out anyways. Yes they have to show up to everything, probably earlier and stay later. Yes, they get pressed into all kinds of "service" that they probably won't want to do if it were up to them alone (i.e. setting up the room for the pack meeting). Yes, they probably have to do activities twice or more and yes, they have to "share" their parents. But as leaders kids, my sons get more opportunities. They get a lot more out of scouting in terms of actually learning stuff because we practice at home, and then they do it again at meetings. They get more "bling". Sure this may not be the end all and be all of scouting, but cubs like bling. My kids have more simply because they often don't get much of a choice in showing up to activities (since me and dad have to be there). And I would like to think that my sons have better memories. So one day (I think), you son will look back and say: "Good ole Dad, he sure was there for me. I didn't think about then, but man, what memories!" Anyways, that's what I want to think!

Clemlaw, I actually think you hit the nail on the head. I think you are right in saying that nowadays, if a boy is still in Scouts beyond 8th grade, it is because he is really dedicated to scouting itself, and thus much more likely to become Eagle, regardless of parent or troop intervention. It really breaks my heart to see already amongst my son's peers (he's going into 5th grade) that scouting just isn't all that "cool" and that being heavily involved in a sport is much, much better. Of course my son has a number of really good friends that are scouts, plus a heavy dose of adults he cares and respects that place a good emphasis on the "coolness" factor of scouting so he's not very bothered by those kids that think kicking a ball is way better than camping for a weekend. It would be interesting to see what percentage of boy scouts drop out in high school today versus say 30 years ago. I can't find those numbers either.

I am trying to do some research and find out if it is really true that there are more Eagles today than there were 20, 30, 40 years ago, in terms of percentages. I really can't find those statistics and reference them. However, in presentations and rah rah type meetings, I seem to recall that the percentage of scouts that make Eagle is around 2% or so. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. The point is, I am not sure that the percentage has changed over the years. If it "seems" that there are a lot of Eagles running around today it maybe just because there are more scouts running around today in terms of absolute numbers. But I would bet that in percentage terms, it's the same amount. A troop could put a lot of emphasis on advancement (and I still don't think that's wrong), but at the end of the day, the scout has to want to do it. And no matter how much hand holding those "Eagle Mills" (a term I really hate by the way) do, the boys gotta sit down, learn the stuff, and get up and DO the stuff.

Eagle: our local girl scout groups don't like our pack either; our CM ran into the same thing. *shrug* We have a meet and greet day at our school a few days before school starts. This is an opportunity for parents to meet the teacher, get school supplies, sign up for the PTA, pre-pay for lunches, and meet vendors for after school activities. Our pack sets up a table this day. The girl scouts do not. And we keep getting parents asking us about girl scouts and we do not what to tell them. I think it has to do with the fact that they are not just one cohesive unit like a troop or a pack. They are run separately as our equivalent of dens and patrols.

In regards to a large day camp. Like I said, our district regularly has over 200 scouts, with about 40 or so more kids as siblings and tots. They divide the top jobs like this: Camp Director: head honcho. She/he sets policies, schedules, secures sites, probably sets theme for the year, etc. Also trains the den leaders and makes sure all volunteers are up to date with YPT. Program Director: in charge of activities. She/he comes up with the specific activities the scouts will be rotating through each day. Such as owl pellet dissection, playing basketball, obstacle course, what have you. Gathers all materials and trains the volunteers that will be running the activities. Registrar: mainly in charge of paperwork. Handles all registrations, assigns volunteers to all the tasks (i.e. den leader, activity leader, security, range, etc), dismissal procedures, etc.

Double dipping is something that comes up often in this forum. This is particularly pervasive in cub scouting, where belt loop/pin requires can considerably overlap with the achievements. However, one thing we can all agree on in here (I hope) is that no unit may add to the requirements of anything. So let me ask this: A scout properly cares for his dog for 4 months. The MBC for Pet MB asks the scouts: did you properly take care of a pet for 4 months? Scout: yes I did. I took care of my dog for 4 months (shows documentation). Then the MBC for Dog Care asks the scout: did you properly take care of a dog for 2 months: Scout: yes I did (shows same documentation). The scout answered honestly both times. I am honestly asking now: is this wrong? A letter vs spirit argument maybe? I could argue that making the scout do it in two separate occasions (of 4 and 2 months each) is adding to the requirements.

The tag along or tot lot or however you wanna call it, is actually a pretty important aspect. It would be a shame to turn down potential volunteers because they don't have anywhere to put their younger child. Plus it eliminates the excuse: "Oh, I can't, I have a toddler". In our camp, the dens eat lunch in their area by themselves, but they come together for opening, assembly, and closing. This year it was in the fellowship hall of the host church. We had about 250 kids, including tots and sisters. We created a girl den for scout aged girls. The younger siblings (boys and girls) were in the tot lot. However, only volunteers could sign daughters and toddlers.

I don't have any kind of re-invent the wheel ideas for your questions, but I can try to tell you how my district did it this year. I was a den leader this year, so I got a pretty good sense on what worked (at least for me) 1. Orientation was actually very low key. The parents were contacted via e-mail earlier and given all the basic info (what to bring, times, some sampling of activities, etc) by the program director. They also encouraged all the den leaders to contact their parents the week before by phone or e-mail. All the kids that I had in my den were from my pack, so I knew them all, so I just sent a general e-mail. Then that Saturday we gave them a 2 hour window to come in, meet their den leader, pick up their T-shirt and water bottle, and get their last minute questions answered. 2. Check in: we were each given a grid that had the kids name and check in and check out column. As they came in, they got a check mark for being here. We turned them in to the PD so that he could have a quick look at who was here and who wasn't. There was the same process (reversed) for check out. It worked just fine for me as a den leader. 3. Early arrivals: you have GOT to be firm on this. We were absolutely adamant that we would NOT accept any child before the start up time. We made it ABSOLUTELY clear that this was not a day care and that we could not in any way, shape, or form be ready to receive children before 8:30AM (ours was a day camp, not evening). If they showed up at carpool, no one would meet them. It only happened once. You have to be very firm on this. This of course does not apply to the children of volunteers (duh). 4. This wasn't an issue since we used carpool lanes. So the kids weren't called out to go to the cars until we were done. In fact we had to be equally firm about not being late in picking up children. As I have mentioned before in here, our area has somewhat of a hard time convincing parents that BSA does not, in fact, stand for Baby Sitters of America.

He did not beat it out of here. He could have and he didn't. He came back and owned his error. There's not need to beat him up for it. A scout is honest, yes, but a scout is also KIND. I rather have him teaching my children about errors and owning up to your mistakes than someone who pretends to be perfect at all times. Let he how is without sin throw the 1st stone...

So no one around here has ever done anything they are not proud of? Jeez, there really wasn't any need to be so judgmental! To OP: I do not know how that would work. I know that I have plenty of regrets that I wish I could go back and rectify, but since time travel isn't really an option, I try very hard to learn from my mistakes, and use them as teaching lessons to young boys in my (temporary) care during scouts. And don't let anyone put you down. It's easy to insult and call names behind the anonymity of the internet. Keep on doing your best!

Does anyone here remember the Little Scout Buddy program? My youngest did it for a year, but I wasn't as involved as i am now, so I don't remember much about it. I know it was meant for younger siblings. I still have the T-shirt and the hat! Reason I bring it up, is maybe this is a better way to go than Lions. I personally had a very hard time with Tigers and scouting. They boys like it, but it is very difficult to hold their attention for periods longer than 5 seconds. I can't imagine having to do it with 5 year olds.

I will preface this by saying that I am fairly liberal (read: hippie like) in my thinking and thus have some unfair bias towards anything resembling a pseudo, somewhat, looks-like para-military behavior and activities. I have squashed my bias in regards to BSA because I think it is a great organization and my sons enjoy it, so I look past the uniforms. So now that I have been honest about my bias, it is my personal opinion that NO, I would NOT like to see any kind of marching or drilling in scouting. I too have cringed while watching some flag ceremonies and yes, I agree that in a lot of cases they could use some polish, but in no way would I agree to have my sons participate in any kind of marching or drilling activity. And that is just MY OWN (albeit biased) opinion; which I assume is what you are looking for. (not MY opinion per se, but the opinions of the people on this boards)

Honestly, I think the SM was a little rude. Just because Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts are very different from a parent perspective doesn't mean you get to be a butt to a parent who is just trying to make sure their kid is properly outfitted. A better answer would have been: "In Boy Scouts, we encourage the boys to take on more responsibilities for themselves. Please have your son look in the Handbook for proper placement of the patches" I think this conveys the right attitude in Boy Scouts without being a smarty pants (I want to say smart-(Insert word that rhymes with bass here) And I don't mean to go off-topic here, but I am beyond tired of the misconception that when a parent wants to help their kid have a good experience in boy scouts (i.e. being properly outfitted) they are automatically labeled a helicopter parent. And then we wonder why we have a hard time finding adult volunteers in boy scouting.

Eagle: our district and neighboring districts as well, register cubs with the pack. In other words, every pack has a registrar and gets all the registrations together from the boys, fills out a master list and then sends it in. The reason I am telling you this boring procedure is because another thing the district requires is a 1:4 of volunteers to scouts being sent to day camp. A pack MUST send in one adult volunteer per every 4 scouts they register. A neighboring district requires a 1:3 ratio. I was the registrar for my pack this summer and I was forced to send e-mails to all the parents that had not volunteered and tell them that if we did not meet the ratio, some of their kids would not be able to attend. Yeah, rude, crass, maybe even mean, but it is what it is. I don't know how common this is in other areas, but in our area we have come to this since we have had trouble explaining to parents that BSA does not, in fact, stand for Baby Sitters of America.

Oak Tree: as an accountant and bookkeeper who regularly deals with other people's money, I can tell you that tellers hardly EVER check signatures. The only time a teller would (on occasion) be more watchful is if you walk up to the teller and want to cash a check. Then they will usually check the signature(s). But go through the drive-up window, send the check in with a deposit slip to your own account? I would bet any kind of money you could sign the check "Mikey Mouse" and they will put it through. So In answer to you question, the 2 signatures thing is supposed to be part of checks and balances, but it's not 100% full proof. In fact, nothing really is. A person intent on stealing, will do find a way to do it, regardless of what procedures you put in place.

Interesting..I just assumed it was a rule, but heavily based on conventional wisdom too. I don't think it a good idea for a bunch of 6 or 7 year olds at family camping to be wielding knives. But hey that's just me. Funny thing is, my youngest son's den leader and I were having a conversation about this issue. When our older sons were Bears, we had no qualms about them getting "knife certified", but for some reason the thought of our younger sons (entering the Bear year right now) getting the chip scares the hell out of us! We can't figure out if we are babying our babies or if we truly just don't think they are as ready as their brothers were. As a side note: our younger sons have later birthdays in the year than our older sons do. In other words, they are younger in their Bear year than their brothers were. In fact, my son started his bear year at 9. Do u think 6 or 7 months make a big difference?

Is there anyone (maybe an older boy?) in your troop that's BSA swimming certified? I know a couple of those guys (they work as lifeguards in my neighborhood pool) that would be very willing to teach the boy enough to get him to pass the test. As far as access to a pool, I think you should ask around. There could be county pools or the YMCA. I think that with a little digging and effort, it is possible to get this boy ready.

Our pack passes things down. And our pack also elected to use the tan uniform for webs, so it's a whole new uniform after bears.

beardad: school systems where I live (GA) mostly let out end of May...and get back mid-august. Yeah, ridiculous. At any rate, yeah we did Cub Scout camp last week..and I have never been as tired as I was by Friday!