mom162

Also So Calif - $3000. This paid for: charter bus to and from LAX (hour and a half plus drive), airfare both ways, guided five days of sightseeing (Philadelphia, Gettysburg, Valley Forge, Williamsburg, Washington D.C., Mt Vernon, Monticello, Arlington National Cemetery) Jambo of course, with equipment (duffle, backpack, three t-shirts, two kerchiefs, two hats, patches, custom luggage tags etc.) plus an additional day in D.C. at the Holocaust Museum and one other place before flying back. Cots were optional for a little more, the tents I think will be used for other Council events(?) and we had to cover the costs of extra class A's, and other clothes, but we got discount pricing through the Jambo catalogue. It was expensive, only one troop of thirty-six scouts went from our council's two counties, but those boys had a trip of a lifetime! The Scouters who went were top-notch, too - the nicest most trustworthy folks you could imagine. No complaints here - except the unavoidable steamy weather...worth every dime. I am glad we were able to pay over time in installments.

This mirrors what's happening in our community too. Our Troop is boy-led, small and has ups and downs as far as recruitment and progress goes. However, we always get a few new Scouts every year, many of the boys become very good friends, and we seem to muddle through just fine. Our main 'competition', if you want to call it that, is a spectacular almost 'regimental' style Troop which everyone else is jealous of (!) with more than thirty-five members on the adult committee, multiple ASMs, supposedly boy-led but other SMs are always making little remarks. They are the ones with so many new recruits each year that they have multiple new patrols. In the end, a fair number of Scouts who first join them end up looking for another troop, because it's apparently rather high pressure on the Scouts. The parents are pressured too, since the monthly hikes are strenuous and there's usually more than one outing a month. In the end, I guess there's room for both styles of Scouting, as long as both take care not to try to cut the other down. I think for our little group, having a distinct identity is key - we're the group that's well known for a trip to the desert to shoot off model rockets, we're the one that combines an annual boy-led planning session for the year with a night of computer gaming (permitted just on that trip - super popular)...We are seeing a decline overall in the number of Troops able to draw recruits each year, especially for the Troops that don't have feeder Packs tied to them. Eventually I think there won't be as many available to choose from, but as long as there's choices it will work out.

The same thing just happened in our Troop, two young men did not have time for ECOHs since they were starting college. They kept in touch with the troop, and when a third Scout of ours got his Eagle rank, the three of them decided to have a combined ECOH during their Winter Break from college/school. Having three Eagles to honor all at once sure packed a lot of punch - for the Eagles, the families, the current Scouts and the guest speakers! Win/win all around. It was a lot of fun.

I was here a few years ago for advice on a tangled situation with a COR / SM conflict over religion (we ended up changing COs, getting a new troop number and keeping all the same boys and families - it worked out). Scouting has gone great for our boy - he's grown up to be a good kid, made close friendships in his troop and worked hard - just about to start the actual project for his Eagle rank after finishing all MBs, will be fifteen this Spring. But our troop continues to struggle. Our former SM's son is about to top out, almost done with Eagle and the SM is bowing out with some health issues. He was great, we miss him. New SM is way busier at work, sometimes can't make it to meetings, and his own son is losing interest in Scouting over football and cars. I feel for the new SM - he's made a commitment to our Scouts, but how hard is it to give up so much time and not see your own son participate? The boys miss the leadership.We need more ASMs - but the newer families are not stepping up - too many other priorities, siblings, etc. We might end up with no SM at summer camp, so our Scouts may have to go as Provisional Scouts in some random troop! To top it off, our great and faithful CC is moving out of state. His son is off to college and he is starting a new life. The parents miss the leadership. No one is willing to step in to the position. It's sad. I think the writing is on the wall - our troop is a microcosm of the challenges Scouting faces everywhere. I think eventually our town will only have a handful of troops - all the small ones like ours will fade and only the biggest ones will make it. Every troop offers something different, so it will be a loss.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! I thought I would put a follow-up post here, for anyone who is interested. Sometimes a thread just fades and you wonder what ever happened. We haven't had a meeting with the CO yet, but the COR mentioned at the last troop meeting, in front of all of us parents, that he was working on getting the meeting scheduled, and that in itself seemed like a step forward - out in the open, everyone cordial but aware and interested. A few of us had a long discussion with the CC, and it seems clear that the CO needs to decide if we will be non-denominational or denominational, but that our current recruiting materials and By-Laws are not clear enough, and we seem to be trying to be both at once. Whatever happened when the troop was new and small, it's grown now, and now it's a problem. If the CO decides to close membership to any who are not in the right faith, then we'll have to have all the current boys move to a new troop, and deal fairly and honorably with the issue of equipment. The old troop will have all the equipment but no boys in it, and a lot of the equipment was donated by the new SM and one ASM who plans to follow the boys. If we stay non-denominational, then we will ask to form a patrol or two with the CO's (and COR's) help for boys of the CO faith. Either way, that feels like the core issue - whether there's one troop or two, we need those boys and their families to make this a reality for the community! Because of my husband's background, and the age of my son (a new scout, age eleven) I'm clearer than most of the other parents on both the religious issues and the reasons why so many of my son's friends of that faith don't join scouting. I've been talking to parents for the last few years about schedule problems, conflicts with religious school hours etc. I think the head of the CO and the COR are a little too far from the parents of potential new recruits (not familiar enough with Scouting, on one hand, and kids are all grown, on the other) to have an idea of how to make things better, and I am up for the challenge if they want my help. The CC has invited me to the meeting, when it happens, and I hope to help keep the discussion focused on what's best for the boys and not on egos or who's right or wrong. Thanks again for all your input, everyone, and I hope this is a great Thanksgiving for you all. (Now I have to go cook...) - mom162

Thanks all, for more input here. Thank you scoutldr, especially, for clear-sighted remarks. I think I have gathered enough to mull over, and I thank you all for your time.

Hi kenk - to answer your last question first, eggs aren't dairy products, so the menu should be okay. On your first point, I think everyone would feel differently if we were dealing with boy members and their families who actually did follow the restrictions themselves, then it's an issue of respect and mutual education. But what is bothering everyone right now is that there are no boys in the troop that this applies to. The only person who cares is the COR, who never attends any outings.

Thank you for your replies, Kahuna and SemperP! I am sorry to hear that there is no set process or forum when personnel issues come up, that COs and CORs can act unilaterally. To answer some of the questions, other troop committee members have told me that they have never had any contact at all with the CO, just the COR, so the organization's actual position is a mystery. They may not care, actually. They took over the CO role a few years ago, when the original CO reluctantly canceled the charter due to the discrimination issue. The other families have no idea what's going on at all - I only found out because I have known the SM as a Cub Leader before, and some of the other ASMs are friends, and have confided their frustrations. If we changed SM or CO, I am not even sure the families would know what to think. The meeting place organization would love to have us be their troop, so far no one wants to broach the subject with the COR. He would definitely want to keep the troop number and equipment. I am just a member of the committee, do you think I would be overstepping my bounds to meet with the CO myself? And, actually, I feel sorry for the COR, I think his dream of having a place for boys of his faith has been ruined by the national politics. Which doesn't make his stance rational or right, but I understand the emotions. The dietary rules are no meat and dairy in the same meal, no pork products or shellfish. The irony is that even with those rules, we can't actually say we are doing it right, if a boy did come along from the strict faith, we wouldn't be able to tell the family we comply unless we buy new dishes, etc. Edit: thank you for the last post, it sounds like CC and I (and other interested people) would not be out of place to go talk to the CO IH (does that signify Institution Head?). It does feel like the COR believes he owns the group, it is difficult to work with him because of that. The lack of boys of the current COs faith has to do with the national politics, the brouhaha over discrimination has led the largest groups of this faith to shun scouting, so there is no recruitment going on in the larger community. The CO group that holds our charter is very small, and I guess there are no interested boys in it. It goes back to the COR trying to keep the idea going against all odds.(This message has been edited by mom162)

This is a painful topic, and I am going to be careful describing it to preserve anonymity of all parties. Please bear with me! We've got a confict in our Troop over a religious issue, and it seems that our Charter Org Rep (COR)is about to demand or accept our scoutmaster's (SM's) resignation over it. My specific question is this: can our COR make this change (assuming the Chartered Org supports it) without telling the rest of the parents, or is there supposed to be meeting that people can come to, to give their opinions or at least hear about it before it is all done? Here's more details. The COR started the troop many years ago under a particular denomination's sponsorship, and I know he feels like it's his baby. He stepped down as SM last year, and hand-picked another man (of another faith) to take the position on. Our current Charter Org, of which the COR is a member, has barely any contact with us at all, and we meet in a church location of a different denomination than the CO, since our own CO is too small to host us. Our CO is also the strictest branch of a faith that is having internal conflicts over the politics of discrimination at the national level, so we cannot change Charter Organizations in town if we will still want to maintain an identity in the particular religion. Here's the SM part. Our COR is making ALL the boys adhere to a diet-related principle that pertains only to boys of the faith of the Chartered Org, even though NONE of the current boys in the troop are actually members of that faith. The SM, who is a very good leader for the troop in many ways, is very discouraged and annoyed at having to enforce a religious component on boys who are not of that faith, and feels that this violates the BSA Religious Principles. The actual religious issue is not written into our By-Laws and Regulations. The local scout office gave the SM some advice off the record last year, saying basically, "there's nothing you can do, but you can start your own troop". I phoned the national chaplain of the religious faith involved, the highest scout position in the faith and the current leader of that faith's national scouting organization, and he emphatically agrees with the SM. He suggested putting a positive effort into recruiting boys and families of the pertinent faith, and working with them so that the COR can get off the case of the SM, or simply moving the entire troop to a different Chartered Org, one that suits the membership at this time. I like idea one, idea two might leave one group with all the boys but no equipment or funds, and the other group with all the equipment and no membership. So the question again is, can the COR get his way without holding a meeting with some or all of the parents? Our SM hasn't violated any BSA rules or even the Troop's By-Laws. Is the COR obligated to tell people what is going on, or can he and the CO just fire someone? The local leadership at the Council level seems to want to sidestep this...

' morning all. Thank you for making this place available on the web for everyone. With all its faults, the internet is an amazing resource! I am a west coast mom, with a boy whose just last spring made the transition from Cub scouts to Boy Scouts. I think he likes Boy Scouts way better than Cub, and he loved Cub too! From day one he's wanted Eagle, so my husband and I are right behind him. Scouting has been one of the best things we've ever found for our boy - he's very bright but struggles in school, and doesn't much care for team sports. Scouting is giving him a chance to balance his life, while learning how to find his way and do guy stuff with a lot of other boys of all ages. We're committed to sending him on all the campouts he wants, because we see that it gives him a little "mini-vacation" from homework and stress once a month...! In our Troop right now we are unfortunately dealing with some politics amongst the adults that is quite painful, although the boys are pretty much unaffected, so I've put a post in the right section for that. I'd love some opinions. Thanks for reading this! Have a great day. P.S. Sorry for the dumb screen name , it's the one which Lego gave me when I joined that silly Lego club a few years ago - the rest of my screen names are too close to my real name for me to post about the politics above...