mojo

Scoutldr, I know parents are not totally objective but yes this is definitely an age thing. The SM stated "this is a chow line and your son didn't get here first". My son has NEVER been a problem child or had an attitude issue. He lives by the scout oath and law in every thing he does. He has never, and I do mean, never been in trouble for anything and there is definitely no scout spirit issue. Unless you count showing up every week, being the top salesman in fundraisers and turning out to 90% of events. He does anything a leader asks of him. Not necessarily perfect, but he has never had an issue with anyone until he did his eagle project write up before the other 14 life scouts. He is an A student, volunteers regularly and is an all around nice kid. I know I just sound like a proud parent, and I am because my son is one of those kids who lives it. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. Is he a well liked, well rounded scout who does his best. Yes. Has he disappeared from scouting upon making life, no. He has stepped it up and been punished for it. I'll keep you posted to what happens.

Neals on wheels, I would never go to the charter organization. It would never work. If you had told ME that this SM was capable of this I wouldn't have believed you. What makes a me think a church would give any thought to this. It would be "an angry parent vs an outstanding SM who raised a boyscout troop up from 0 to 50." That's what I meant by no accountability. What a lousy set up that the district or council can't go in an remove someone who is going against BSA policy, knows it, and doesn't care. No accountability means if a volunteer leader goes astray that the boy who is abused in the process gets screwed almost every time. That is a real flaw in BSA. If I had another son I don't think I would let him join scouts after this. We will stick this out until Eagle and then reevaluate. But I can't imagine staying after this, at least not in this troop. No accountability opens up to an abuse of power, why would it possibly be set up this way?

PackSaddle, Ending the journey has only come about since the leader bullied my son. My son's best friend is now leaving, and the other scout he is connected to is also going to leave. Both of those are geographic moves as well as tired of the politics. This has so soured both our family and my son to scouts. I will be encouraging him to join a venturing unit or look at other units but I have a feeling he will leave and take a break for awhile. He wants to obtain eagle because he has worked for it and it is his goal, but as you pointed out if this is the kind of behavior the leaders are going to exhibit he can go find somewhere else to shine and go live a great life without them. I am not a hit the road when things get rough person. But I will also not leave my son somewhere where the policies of BSA are not cared about or followed and where men can't admit when they are wrong. If someone says, "Hey this is what BSA policy is" and when the SM/DAC says, "I dont' care" it's no longer BSA. Is't just BS. The BS of Mr so and so- not BSA.

Well, I guess now I see that when there is no accountability in an organziation your only option may be to leave. How SAD. You really cant fight it at the organization level because an organization always wins. Or at least almost always. I think we will wait it out until summer is over and take it from there. If he has not signed him off by then we know of another boy who is leaving and maybe he'll join that troop for a few months while he makes eagle. (in another district). It is just so depressing that he may not be able to finish this journey with his friends.

You have so greatly depressed me. I thought if he had an eagle advisor they could sign off instead. So basically he is held hostage? Is there nothing he can do? I know the SM has been told to sign it but the person who is the chair over the committees but he hasn't done it and just keeps avoiding my son. What can be done?

pack saddle, No he has not done the project. He had verbal approval to plan. So he planned, and is done with the write up and was eventually told to go ahead with the benefiting organziation's signature. The scout master has not signed off. So he can't start the project. And he can't go get signatures from anyone else because he is still waiting for the scout master to sign off. All he needs is a signature and that is all he has needed for 3 weeks. If he had a signature he could do the project in two weeks. He is ready to go and can't get a meeting with the SM to sign off so that is why we would like an eagle advisor. According to the handbook it appears you can use a signature from an eagle advisor isntead of the SM. The handbook says "scoutmaster/coach/eagle advisor" under the signature spot.

Neal on Wheels, The signature lines are for Advancement chair, Committee member, benefiting organization and the remaining one says, "scoutmaster/coach/eagle advisor." Are you saying that an eagle adivsor can't sign instead of the scoutmaster? I thought it was either or. Please clarify.

Another interesting point is the committee has now decided that you need three committee signatures for approval.

Pack Saddle, Yes you have it right. As the DAC he is not allowed to sit on his BOR but is allowed to sign off on the project as his SM. Someone else form district signs off as the DAC, we just haven't gotten that far. He was given permission to work on the project and when we asked why did you okay him to work on it if you weren't going to look at it his response was "I didn't think he'd get it done so fast." I am keeping a log. I plan to contact the council advancement chair next week if he hasn't been assigned an Eagle advisor by Monday. He really does want this and we will find a way, I just am sad that a child has to be singled out and punished for someone else's ego. The man is lucky bullying isn't against the law because that is what this is.

Scouting again, No they have not told him what he needs to do. He will have filled Position of responsibility six months in August so we won't do anything until then. He is working on his last merit badge which he will finish in June. (Which the SM told his friend he wouldn't sign the blue card until the whole patrol had finished it since they opened it together). We took the patrol to a scouting merit badge university to do Cit. in the world and it was a great experience. The SM knew we were going, never said anything. And at the meeting with my husband got upset that now he has "no way to slow this patrol down". The boys may not be as "mature" as a 16 year old Eagle. But Eagle is a rank. You earn it at your own rate. There are plenty examples of boys making eagle young and staying in troops, and there are plenty of example of both the younger and the older scout leaving as soon as they make eagle. But holding a boy hostage is no way to encourage him to stay in a troop. I make the SM sound awful and the funny thing he is one of the nicest guys ever. If you knew him you wouldn't think he would be capable of this behavior. My son has been done with his write up for almost a month and not letting him get a signature is a wrong doing to both the boy and the benefiting organization.

exactly, it does get messy. If we walk we give him power to sit on his BOR as the district advancement chair. But because he is the scout master if we stay, he can't sit on his BOR. That means someone else from district sits on his BOR. We may request a council BOR anyway...He really wants to have a COH with his best friend who was able after several meetings to get his project approved just before my son went in. He was most put out that these two boys have stepped up and I think decided he had to come up with something to keep my son from moving forward. Now he is held hostage. My son now has to find a way to prove himself and must say yes to any thing the scout master requests regardless of whether or not it is good for him or our family. another interesting point is that the committee is made up almost of all parents of older scouts who have sat around for 6-18 months not working on their eagle project. The scout master is friends with alot of these people and he has slowly been making his rounds to gather support. I can't say how shocked I am as we have been an active family in scouts and our son is loved by all. The other thing that has come out is they have decided it is going to be much harder for a boy to make rank at star and life. The kids will have to "give back to the troop". That is why not adding to requirements is so important. It is too subjective to say "Well you've filled a role of responsibility for 6 months and you come every week and you do whatever I ask , but that's not good enough because I don't think you've shown enough leadership." If you want to add to requirements add it in an objective way. At least then we'd know if he did the requirements. Why don't the leaders have to abide by the scout oath and law? What ever happened to a scout(leader) being obedient (to the policies of the BSA). Funny thing there is NOTHING about leadership in the mission of BSA or the scout oath and law. It's about character and raising boys to be guided by ehtics, which I think now are sorely lacking.

We would vote with our feet, but again the problem there is if he is eligible to apply for Eagle in August. That is right around the corner and then this same scout master who is district chair gets to sit on his BOR. If we stay he can't sit on his BOR and that is our only bit of power. My son has been so beaten up that he now has no interest in continuing in scouts. They could have simply said, we're too busy as a troop to let you do your project in May but good job and it will amazing to have an eagle scout in the troop to help the younger boys along...instead they told him he was a looser and he could leave. So as soon as he is Eagle, he will. We want to encourage him to join a venturing unit but I think he now is looking forward to stepping away from scouts and taking a break. So sad. Why is BSA set up with so little accountability?

HELP. My son has been in scouts since Tiger. He entered boyscouts in the fifth grade with his arrow of light and has stayed on track advancing quickly. He had a slight delay from star to life and it seems liked his scout master was trying to hold him and his buddy back because they were advancing quicker than the rest of their patrol. He made life in February and is currently working on his 21st merit badge. (He is 13, will be 14 by eagle and is at the end of seventh grade). There are two patrols of boys ahead of him who have made life and almost none of them have started their eagle projects. He has diligently been working on his eagle project and went in for a meeting with the troop master in April to have it approved. The scout master (a very very well respected person in the community who I have always respected) took another well respected leader in to the meeting with my son. They then manipulated, bullied and shamed my son for an hour without his parents in ear shot telling him he had not "given back to the troop enough" so they were not going to even look at his project. They went as far as to very kindly ask him why they should waste their gas to drive out and help him with his eagle project (you know, the one they didn't look at). My son was shocked. He was given the okay to plan it, met with the benefiting organization and has this organization depending on him. He has now been trying to kiss a--for a month trying to get a signature and so far no luck. We would go to the district advancement chair but guess who it is. Yep, his same scout master. We have gone to the district commissioner who is ALSO in our troop and one of his good friends and asked for an ealge advisor who is not the scout master. We said we would be happy for any one of the assistant scout masters to do it. He doesn't need anything but the signature! We are still waiting. He says he has to check with council because he doesn't think anyone but the scout master can sign the eagle packet. When we point out it says coach or advisor as well he states he thinks this is for crew and adventuring. So here we wait. My son is crushed. He's one of those goody goody yes sir types, not a rebellious or pushy boy. My husband was told this was a chow line and my son didn't get her first. So he is suppose to wait for these other 14 scouts to make life before he does his project?They also told my son as he sat shamed in the meeting that if he didn't like it he could go to another troop. Really, and WHO exactly will sit on his board of review if we do that? Oh that's right-this same scout master who is the district advancement chair. Does anyone have anything from national BSA that says who can be an eagle advisor? We have tried the play nice route and it isn't working. ANY ADVICE IS APPRECIATED.