Miki101

Writes Brian, "What is the link to your source? Where is this archive you talk about?" Good grief, Brian. How can you take yourself this seriously if you don't know about the BSA National Archives in Irving. It's is truly a fact now, you have ZERO credibility but you are still a propagandist.

Brian, You have non-sense. Let's break down the National numbers, shall we? BSA Report # 12505 prepared 10/6/2006 (available in the National Archives) Total BSA Youth (Cubs, Scouts, Varsity, Venturers, Lone Scouts)according to BSA = 2,491,910 (Not including Cubs) = 1,052,437 Brian's number from Aug 2006 = 844,303. ** Wow Brian, you're off by only 208,134 registered youths. Very Impressive.** Total Youths registered at the end of 2005 according to BSA = 2,938,698 (Not including Cubs) = 1,193,374 Brian's number = 887,378 ** Hey, you're off 305,996 in that number** The 280,980 membership increase number that I quoted earlier resulted from the increase from the 2nd quarter to the 3rd quarter. Therefore, a "rock" would keep on dropping. It's on a rise right now. So... You, Sir, are a propagandist and an alarmist and doing a great dis-service to the organization. When you start dealing in facts then you will get more positive attention. It's a sad reality that you hide behind the facade of trying "to help the program" when you actually bring distrust and falsehoods to it. Some inner soul searching - and a new, more credible source - would do you a world of good. Regards, David C. Scott

By the way, how dare your suggest that I am a liar. That is a personal affront and shows that you hide behind emotional, unsubstantiated arguments. That belittles the organization. I deal with facts not heresay. Let me know when you go into the Archive and get the facts. Now, why don't you name your "buddy." Shame on you, Brian.

Thanks Brian, My numbers are absolutely correct. They came from the National Archives and you need to go there. Your heresay does not overcome fact. You need to substantiate your claim. I have a feeling that you got bad information. Mine are published and accessible to the public. Sorry.

Brian, Membership went up 255,000+ in the quarter ending September. Therefore, it's "not dropping like a rock."

"Even so, your early figures don't pass the "sniff test" at first blush." Sorry Beavah, those are the numbers...for right or wrong. I stand by my statements. Prove me wrong with the facts. Why don't you just visit the Archives and go get 'em yourself. Not that it really matters at this point but does the fact the there were about 50 Eagles in the first 6 years make a difference to you? That does skew to average down a bit doesn't it? (9 a year average to 50,000 a year) I'll go fetch those membership numbers for you next week if this thread lasts that long. I just don't understand what all the fuss is about. Is it really that big of a deal? Oh, I suggest that you give another go at your "sniffer" and prove me wrong with facts. Sounds like to need to make a visit to the Federal census stats. And I'll look forward to the results of your research. And as for your "Cow pie salesmanship" comment - how crude.

National Archives

This should really not be that difficult. I'm including all of the UNIQUE bodies that signed up for Scouting in a given time period. That would include those boys that joined for 2 days and those that stayed for 10 years. They are UNIQUE bodies of boys since 1910. That is the gross number that should be considered.

Beavah, The numbers went down a lot as you go farther back. In 1981, the 1,000,000th Eagle was given and the cumulative membership was 46,107,939. That makes the percentage 2.17%. It took 71 years to get to 1 mil Eagles. Now you're looking at 30 years after that to do the same. Therefore, a higher percentage of boys TODAY are earning the Eagle. However, the question posed was since 1910... and that number ramains at about 2%.

1910 - 2005 83,486,083 Unique Tigers through Scouts/Venturers about 1,650,000 Eagles = 1.98 % How's 2% sound in this situation? Hmmm, that one sounds familiar...Any other scenarios?

Total of unique Boy Scouts and Venturers through 2004 = 51,013,554 Total Eagles through 2004 = about 1,600,000 That makes it at about 3.14% Let's agree upon 3% I hope that this answers the question.

+221,670 from March

This is a very good ad for BSA whether is was done by them or not. It shows that the focus of BSA should get back to outdoorsmanship/backwoodsmanship in Nature. Ever since the departure of Ernest Thompson Seton in 1915, BSA has been drifting away - ever so slightly year by year - from his basic tenets of outdoormanship. Looks like they are starting to get back to the basics of woodcraft and the outdoor life. This is a very good thing for the boys and the program. Kudos to the producer. David C. Scott

Oak Tree, You can see the numerical changes in each column so one has to interpolate the numbers like any good statistician would.

The actual membership numbers are published quarterly. Just visit the National Scouting Museum on a regular basis and pick them up.

At-a-boy Semper. You nailed it.

That's a rather odd question. BP's experiences were formed by Victorian politics. His fame was generated by a style of warfare that is not fought anymore. I'm not sure that anyone alive today could garner the world's attention like he did in 1907 to start a youth organization on the lines of Scouting. Therefore, the question is based in the wrong century and, therefore, we probably would not have Scouting as we know it. David C. Scott

Now, now. What makes you think that the BSA National Archives does not have this Eagle list?

www.streamwood.net Chris Jensen is the owner

Adam writes: "We can rant and rave about one or another issue, and we shouldit might be productive and satisfying and fun. But I dont think we can isolate one issue and say this is the culprit. Actually, in this case you can rather easily narrrow it down to the Jamboree. When the membership numbers stay in a normal range of fluctuation for 3/4 of the year and then begin to take a noticeable drop during the last 3 months, you must take a look at what happened just before that drop. And that event was the 2005 National Jamboree. The 4th quarter numbers began to show an erosion in membership - then came the disastrous results for the 1st quarter 2006. You seem keen on numbers and analysis, which is a good thing, but the Jamboree tragedy is the most likely culprit in this instance - regardless of your 5 categories. David C. Scott

Michael, What do you feel were West's biggest mistakes? FYI: I have located one of West's BSA last living office boys and am trying to get an interview with him. I tend to believe that he would shed some light on the man. I, too, thought Ed Rowan's book on West was a fun read. David C. Scott

Adam, Now that the 2005 numbers are out I will forward the following unfortunate observation. I have the 1st quarter numbers and it looks as if there has been a dramatic loss in membership over that 3-month time period. Again, I am sorry to say, that Merl's observations at THIS point are well founded, however, I feel that his reasons for them are not. I propose that the horrendous accidents that happened in 2005 account for the exodus in membership...Jamboree tragedy, drownings, lost hikers, etc. There is very little good press that the BSA has been able to generate and they are "taking it on the chin" at this point in time. Although these 1st qtr numbers are not widely available - they are made available but not for the average internet surfer as far as I know. The annual ones are...as you know. David C. Scott

Adam, I have been granted access to sensitive documents and figures inside the BSA organization by the legal powers that be. The numbers are published on a quarterly basis by the National Office. If you would like to get them, then you could simply make a trip to Irving and get them. Unfortunately, I will not service those who have an agenda, but if they want to make the trip then they have have the correct numbers also. That being said, there was a distinctive drop since 2005, probably due to the Jamboree tragedy, but the scale was not in the order of Merl's numbers. I'm sorry that you are swayed by Merl's incorrect figures but that is out of my control. David C. Scott

John, Do you have a link to Victor Cass' response?

Bottom line: There is no recorded fact or observation from the Brownsea boys or attendees that BP ever took ashes. Tell it as an allegory. "It is though that BP..." I deal with facts, so if someone has the written fact, please correct me. David C. Scott