Mike F

johnsned, I missed this when originally posted. Prayers with all of you. -mike

It's really an issue of "boys being boys" and allowing them to sleep in groups that achieve critical mass. The more you group together, the more overwhelming the temptation to ignore things like Courteous and Obedient, not to mention common sense and respect. This can be handled by either rules (2/tent) or discipline. Our older Philmont crew arrived late to a crowded camp a few months ago. As the night was cool and clear, the guys decided to sleep under the stars. About 8 of them were crowded together, excited about being out, and the joyous ruckus commenced. After a few minutes to enjoy the moment, their Crew Leader was heard trying to get them to settle down. When his efforts were unsuccessful, I called out time to quiet down. When that didnt work, I walked over. In a calm, clear voice I told them we had observed them ignoring their leader and their actions were disrupting others and would not be tolerated - settle down now or prepare to call your parents to come get you in the morning. (A 5-hr drive.) Not another peep was heard. I asked my son the next morning if anyone questioned whether or not I meant it. "Nope." What would you have told them if they had asked? "Darned right you'd do it." I also counseled the Crew Leader about being more assertive when he needs to letting him know the adults would back him up. In our post-weekend debrief with the crew, we emphasized discipline and the role of the Crew Leader and the fact that the adults were there to back him up. We haven't had a problem the Crew Leader couldnt handle since that weekend. Instead of giving them a rule to follow (which would prevent the problem), we've given them clear expectations and consequences - and they learn self-control. BTW - "back in the day," I grew up using OGE's "Canadian Bell" Army surplus tents - one per patrol. Sure wish I could get my hands on some today. What you risk in "critical mass" concerns, you gain in patrol unity. Woodsmith - For your "Party Tent Gang," you might try talking to them about the problem. Make your expectations clear - like party ends at troop lights out time. For consequences, you could tell them they won't be allowed to bring the party tent on the next campout. Whatever it is, tell them up front, before everyone's tired at the end of the day and tempers start to flare. If you ever have to send someone home, I guarantee it won't happen a second time - word gets out fast. Another question - is your Party Tent Gang in one patrol? We insist on scouts sleeping by patrol - even if this just means grouping their smaller tents together. Good luck! -mike

There is definitely a problem with the non-Scout family - according to GTSS (http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss03.html), on a Scout Family Camping activity, at least one member of each family must be a registered BSA member. All scouting GTSS and YP rules apply. The beer is out. Read the Safety Afloat section carefully - for example, everybody including adult guests needs to take the BSA "Swimmer" test. There are very explicit requirements for how to handle anyone who doesn't pass the test. Your tour company may be able to provide all the required certified lifeguards, but it's your responsibility to make sure you're covered per BSA standards - you can't delegate this to the company. At this point, I'd probably make a public declaration that this was NOT a Troop or Scout event. Admit you started it with that intent, but have decided it's not a scout function. Have all families participating sign something that says they understand it's not a troop or BSA activity of any kind and is not sponsored or endorsed by BSA, local council, your troop, or your charter org. I'd still work hard to keep the alcohol out of the picture - there are just too many leaders and scouts on the trip. The lawyers might eventually concede it wasn't a BSA activity, but those impressionable guys will still see they're leaders in the outdoors knocking a few back. Other than that, I'd go have a great time. In fact, I wish my family was coming with you - sounds great! BTW - I've been told we're not allowed to bring prospective scouts on campouts until they are registered. I didn't research this one myself, but our CC did and came back with a no. From the reading referenced above, it sounds like we may be able to if someone in their family is already registered and the prospective scout is of eligible age.

Dutch ovens are almost indestructible. About the only thing that can ruin them is a sudden temperature shock that will crack the iron. Ive never seen one crack from being put on coals. I have seen one crack after being put on one of those big volcano burners with a very hot flame. Ive also seen one crack when a lot of cold water was dumped into it while the metal was hot. If youre going to use one on a stove, crank up the flames gently. Ive used the bottom of lid as a griddle on coals. Never tried it on a stove, but guess it would work on one of those big two burner rigs if you have it stabilized like you mentioned. But it might be easier to use a regular iron griddle or fry pan. Another thing I never, ever use soap on my personal Dutch oven. Just scrape it out, rinse it, dry, and apply thin film of oil. You can scrape all you want with a steel spatula to get hardened stuff off you wont hurt the D.O. Use any pot scrubber just not Brillo with soap. If it gets a heavy build up that starts to bother you, you can refresh the D.O. by getting it red hot in the midst of a good fire the crusty stuff will burn and flake off or turn to ash. Let the D.O. cool gently. When cool, re-season from scratch this process also removes all oils so it will rust fast. If you dont have time for full re-season process immediately, at least give it a light coat of oil. Happy cooking! -mike

EagleInKY, 95% without issues? You're batting way above average! Keep up the great work!! -mike

OGE & Eamonn mentioned "The Cremation of Sam McGee" by Robert Service. He has a bunch - and "Cremation" is one of the best. My favorite is "The Call of the Wild."

Jason, You'll be welcomed almost anywhere! (Who out there can't use another willing/able volunteer?) While in Grad School, my wife & I served as Advisors for a co-ed Explorer post. A few years later in another area, I served as an Asst SM and had a great time. Wife didn't think it was such a great idea to continue after our second child was born, so I backed off a bit for a while. (Note: Consider the extent of your committment carefully. There will be times when family has to come first - if you don't have a kid in the game, scouts won't always take top priority.) In one of the troops I serve, we have an outstanding former scout who's your age. He has two very small sons at home, so can't make most of the monthly campouts, but he's become an invaluable asset to our high adventure program. I drafted him to help out with our Boundary Waters canoe trip last summer and he's taking the lead for Philmont this summer. He's full of energy (puts this old guy to shame) and the guys love to hang out with him. I wondered about this for a while, then realized he's closer to them in age than he is to me! Go for it! -mike

1Hr, We got one of those Texsport cots to try it out and I found it almost impossible to assemble, too. It's now in the back of our camping stuff pile. I picked up a simple folding aluminum frame cot with 1" pad from Academy. Takes up more room, but works fine. Also doubles as a spare bed around the house. -mike

Mom, This certainly sounds out of line. Trying to draw your son into the action in order to get him to expand his comfort zone is certainly laudable, but not a requirement. Since your son is undergoing treatment for depression, I would think he qualifies for some consideration as a special needs scout and the first step is for the SM to get some training/guidance on how to best help your son achieve his goals. Have you or dad tried to talk to SM without son around? I think he owes you an explanation of why he's holding son back. This will also give you an opportunity to help him better understand your son's condition. If this doesn't help, FScouter's recommendation is right on target. Before going around SM to CC and District, I'd give him a heads up that you're not satisfied with his approach and you plan to elevate. That way he won't be surprised when he gets the next phone call. Do your best to handle with respect and courtesy -- these kinds of things can really blow up, but you have to do what you have to do, so stand firm. Best of luck! Let us know how it goes. -mike

We laid a beloved Scouter to rest on Saturday. His family was deeply touched by the 300+ Scouts and Scouters who attended in uniform. Even the alter boys were in uniform. After the service, we all lined the path to the hearse and saluted as the pallbearers brought him out for the trip to the cemetery. One of his older sons beamed through his tears, "Yeah -- that's just how dad would have wanted it." Please pray for his family and extended scouting family as we all cope with the loss. -mike

Just a little more info: Pilot-to-CoPilot: side by side seating Pilot-to-Bombardier: back to back seating Both involve no screening - takes a little getting used to for most city scouts. Some used to be within clear view of trail - nothing to do but grin and wave as the cute coed crew hikes by... Recommendation is to urinate on a rock instead of classical tree. Varmints will chew the bark off tree to get the salt. No harm in using soft ground instead of rock.

scouter659, Well done! Hope you're not losing as much sleep as mom. Tell us about that Troop JLT website! -mike

Just found this link for canoe trip OA Wilderness Voyage web page: http:/www.oa-bsa.org/programs/ntvoy/ Sounds great! Please let us know if you find out they have any openings to either!!

Thump, I agree - the 6 months always seems to be too short - I personally think they're almost always still on the learning curve and miss out on the confidence of really knowing a job well. But the pressure to roll them over is overwhelming in every program I've been affiliated with. The way we work it, it's irrelevant if a scout comes up saying he "needs" a POR for Eagle (or any other rank). The only way to get a job around here is to earn it by being elected (SPL or PL), or having the SPL select you as the best scout for the job (who is willing and able). We have several scouts sitting on Life for 2-3 years, MBs all completed, but unwilling to accept job with any real responsibility. They have the silly notion that we're going to pin the QM patch on 'em and sign it off in 6 months - even though they haven't been on a single campout to assist with gear, etc., etc. I had SM Conf with one of these Life Scouts after our last leadership elections. He was disappointed he didn't get a job (which he "needs" for Eagle). I reminded him that adults don't assign jobs - scouts elect and SPL appoints - that's the only way to get a job. And who is most likely to get a job? (The ones active in the troop program.) How many campouts had he been on in the last 2 years? (One.) How many times had he stepped up to fill in the when the PL/APL wasn't there for a meeting? (None.) Etc. - you get the picture - he wanted a gift. Bottom Line: he wasn't showing much interest in being active and taking on responsibility, so he wasn't likely to get a POR. Fortunately, this one is a success story. This particular scout decided he really wanted Eagle, has made the last few campouts, shown a more mature positive attitude, and was just elected PL at the age of 17yrs and 3 months. I couldn't be more proud of the knucklehead that's finally getting his act together and told him so last night.

Woodsmith, I think you know the real problem - it has nothing to do with needing term limits and everything to do with the previous administration not using the BSA program of scouts electing their own SPL and PLs. I've been a part of 5 troops and 2 Explorer posts through the years - and I've never seen a need for term limits in any situations. Like dan said, the scouts will work it out. I've actually seen more of the other side of the coin - people (scouts and adults) who wrongly state or assume that leaders are limited to a single term of office in a certain position. It has taken a lot of work to convince all involved that it's OK for scouts to be reselected for a job if they're still willing and the followers still want them. A lot of scouts seem to have this belief that after serving a term in office, they've earned the right to kick back and not continue to contribute. I've seen a lot of promising leaders lose their edge and never really get back into the game doing this. In fact, just two hours ago, I counseled a scout to go talk to our just-elected SPL and talk to him about the next job he'd like to have. "Leaders have a need to lead! Every job is an opportunity to hone your skills and support the troop. After helping drive this troop for the last 6 months, do you really want to go back to the trenches as a patrol member, or do you want to stay out front and make a difference?" He stood there with his mouth open for a minute, then hunted down the SPL.

I just returned from a 10-day backpacking/leadership course - part of a fairly new program for adult professional development at the National Outdoor Leadership School (http://www.nols.edu/). I'm still at a loss for words, but WOW! This was the experience of a lifetime!! The two instructors stayed with us the whole time - pushing us to do stuff I never dreamed I'd be attempting in some truly rugged conditions. It snowed on us almost every day, we bushwhacked across terrain while post-holing for miles on end with 70-pound packs, and climbed a 12.6K peak in howling winds with ice axes at the ready. These instructors have my absolute and total respect - they aren't part-time summer help - they do this stuff for a living and they know their stuff cold. (No pun intended.) After the day's activities, we'd have classes in leadership and team building in the campsite. In addition to these, I learned a ton of new backcountry skills with a lot of emphasis on Leave No Trace. Most of their programs are oriented toward High School and College kids - male and female. Course lengths range from a week to a semester (with college credits) at many different locations around the US and world. In addition to backpacking, programs include technical climbing, canoe/kayaking/rafting, sea kayaking, telemark skiing, wilderness medicine, etc. They've been around since the 60s and haven't traditionally catered to Scout groups, but I understand they're willing to discuss options if you're interested. Their standard programs might be just the thing for some of your guys that are looking for a different challenge. I won't blabber on any more, but - as you can tell - I'm a believer in their program. If you want more info, please feel free to send me a private message. -mike f

I just got back from VFW Post ceremony where our troop performed the flag ceremony for the 4th year. This one was different; however, with the presence of 2 families of local soldiers who recently gave the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq. The fact that these soldiers were just a few years older than our scouts was sombering to all.

I've also used both and used North Country Canoe Outfitters last summer after getting recommendation from Eagle90 and others. Couldn't have been happier. Very professional. Best part was pulling away from the shore (about 50 yds from Northern Tier dock) without a Guide - it was exciting to be totally on our own. (But we did rent the satellite phone -- just in case...) The responsibility of going in without a Guide is probably not for everyone, but I'll definitely be using NCCO again.

After some years with symbolic calling out, our troop ceremony team performed ceremony at the District Camporee. Some of the old timers were surprised to see Allowat (my eldest son) perform traditional tapping. It was clearly symbolic and restrained - until my next oldest son was brought before the Chief of the Fire. With a twinkle of mischief and sparkle of pride in his eyes, Allowat let him have it with just a touch more vigor. Best part was my wife drove out to watch that night. It was her first time to view an OA ceremony after hearing me talk about them for over 25 years. It was beautifully executed - pure magic. She was awestruck and finally understands a little bit more about these strange male-folk she lives with.

opps(This message has been edited by Mike F)

Thanks, hastingr! I ended up finding one on sale, too. So far, so good. Only downside I've seen: It wants to be full. I had it out on a weekend backpacking trip with moderate temps, etc. The load was unstable because there was no way to cinch it all down. For more serious trips (the reason I bought it), this won't be a problem. I may experiment with some additional cinch-straps to pull it all tighter to frame when lightly loaded. -mike

Good advice - start with the Pros - they've dealt with this before. And get parents and doctor involved. The Tenderfoot fitness requirement is an easy one. Purpose is to introduce new scout to the concept of regular physical activity to promote and improve personal fitness (one of the 3 Aims of Scouting). By regularly exercising for 30 days, the scout can see improvement and hopefully be encouraged to continue in some regular activities so he can continue to improve - leading, again - hopefully, to instill a habit that leads to a lifetime of improved personal fitness. If pushups and pullups put too much stress on the joints, perhaps the doctor (or physical therapist) could recommend some alternatives, such as arm lifts or pull-downs with light weights. Say, for instance, that Doc doesn't recommend doing arm lifts with more than 5 pound weights. The Scout could start the program by measuring how many he could do, work out for a month, and measure the improvement. Scout knows he has limits, but also sees first-hand how he can still improve his fitness with regular exercise. Mission accomplished! It's actually easier to work around physical limitations than social/emotional/psychological ones. I'm not a pro, but the leaders in our troop which have researched it say there's less leeway in working around the leadership requirements for advanced ranks.

We almost never bail out due to weather unless it's totally flooded - and then we'll usually just look for higher ground. Instead, we use the opportunity to find where problems occur and teach everybody how to avoid it next time. About 1.5 years ago, we arrived at the trailhead late at night in a steady cold rain. After some extra time to check everybody's gear, we stepped off into the wet darkness for a bracing 5-mile hike to campsite. In the few breaks we got that weekend, we dried out what we could and got ready for the next onslaught. In the meantime, we set up and ran compass courses in the backcountry - in the rain. I like to say the true test is not about surviving, but thriving in the conditions you're dealt. Experience came in handy last summer when it rained for about 20 straight hours at the beginning of our Canadian Boundary Waters canoe trip and bailing out wasn't a viable option. We all had our moments of "What have we gotten ourselves into?," but did fine. A lot depends on the attitudes of the leaders - if you howl back at the storm, the guys will howl with you.

Thanks for the feedback - I appreciate it! We had an incident during a council shakedown hike a couple of weekends ago. Crew decided on Saturday evening what time they would get up to start packing out on Sunday morning. One of the scouts - the Asst Crew Leader, who had a bad attitude all weekend - refused to get out of bed. After several wakeup calls and disrespectful replies, the Crew Leader dropped the tent on his recalcitrant assistant. (The assistants father is one of the adult advisors. Although plenty steamed, he let the scouts work it out.) The crew was the last of 20+ to come dragging back into base camp about an hour after the others. A couple of evenings later, the Crew Advisor had a conference with scout at scouts home. (Asst Crew Advisor/dad was present.) The scout apologized for his actions, but he was officially placed on probation status last warning one more incident and hes out. At our next meeting, he apologized to the crew for his actions. He and the Crew Leader have started meeting to discuss how they can work together better to help the crew. So far, so good. At least he knows were serious. -mike

Razor, Good discussions. You'll be amazed at what you want handy in those smaller pockets. I use mine for things like rain gear, pack cover, toilet paper, soap, water purification tablets, compass, knife, little bit of cord, sunscreen, bug stuff, trail snack, camera, maps, change of socks, sunglasses, small first aid/blister kit, etc. If you can't find one to borrow, you can rent gear at some outdoor stores. If not local, you might be able to find stuff close to your hiking area. I've flown into Albuquerque and rented gear from REI a few times before driving north to trailhead. Good backpacking gear can quickly add up to some serious money - I'd definitely try things out before buying. Backpacking is not for everyone - make sure you like it before investing heavily.