Mike F

I was contingent leader for 2 crews in Boundary Waters in 2003 and 3 crews at Philmont in 2004. Learned lots of lessons. Biggest one is the importance of working as crews prior to trip. We form crews that function much like patrols during the build-up before the trip. Guys elect a Crew Leader. In many ways, he functions as a PL, but all members of the crews maintain their current status in the troop and regular troop leadership positions, too. Gotta be clear - first priority is supporting the troop. We also made an issue out of only allowing active members of the troop to participate in the troop's high-adventure activities. If you want to take part in the very best opportunities our troop has to offer, then you need to be active in the troop in order to earn the privilege to participate. It's really important for the crews to spend time together bonding as a crew - learning to work efficiently together. This should include some camping as a crew, but there's a lot to be gained by doing some other fun stuff, like going out for pizza, going to a movie, going bowling, etc. Include the adult advisors - they are part of the crew, too. Based on my recent experience, I would say Philmont is more physically (and mentally) challenging. You're on the go all the time, legs churning and lungs hurting for oxygen. The effort to get in top shape will pay off big time. Aerobic training (jogging, biking, etc.) is the best - gets the cardiovascular system tuned up. Strength training for those leg muscles is a close second. Training hikes with 40-45 pound packs get the whole system used to the load. If you're going out for a weekend, be sure and get a good hike in on Sunday before you head home. It's not too bad to grind out 10 miles on Saturday. Saddling up and doing another 5 or more two days in a row when the legs are hurting is more like the real deal. Strongly consider spending a couple of days/nights at high altitude before you get to Philmont. Last summer we spent two nights in Colorado Springs with a strenuous day hike to 9500' and we hit the ground running when we got to Philmont (coming from sea level home). Another skill that you might want to work on is map/compass. If the guys aren't already good at it, invest some time to make sure they understand the basics very well and get them on some trails where they really need to depend on their skills. Finally, get the Philmont Advisors Guide from CoopWright@aol.com - it's worth it! For BWCA, more emphasis on upper body strength. Think about paddling into the wind for an hour, then loading everything onto your shoulders to hump a portage. Having said that, you'll gain strength and endurance fast on the water. Rather than having everyone report to the gym, I'd spend more time working on teamwork and efficiency. Get the gear organized for efficient portages. (I've seen crews that jumped out of the canoes, loaded everything up, and completed the portage in one trip. Other crews left stuff behind and had to make 2 - or 3 trips. Huge time sink.) During shakedown campouts, practice efficient camping skills. When you hit camp, everyone has a job and camp is set up in a jiffy. (Same true for Philmont.) Before we went in 2003, we did 2 day-long canoe trips and 1 overnighter. I think the day trips were of marginal utility, except to hone some dull canoing skills. Happy hiking! -mike

Good comments, all! We have attendance requirements in writing for the successful completion of a POR. Not rigidly held to without exception, but the expectation is clear, so SM conf is focused. Guys are told to consider outside commitments before accepting a position. Something we try to make clear to all leaders, but especially the PLs -- they are still responsible for their patrol, even if they are unable to make a meeting or activity. They are supposed to first make sure their APL is ready and available to take over, then to notify the SPL about the substitution. PL remains responsible for making sure his patrol is taken care of at all times. We've also had a number of scouts and parents grousing about scouts not getting PORs and how it's holding them back for rank. In almost all cases, a look at attendance records tells the story. If Johnny misses a lot of meetings and almost all campouts, he's sending a loud and clear message that he can't be depended upon. (Putting scouts on hold for a season is OK. Even better is showing up stinking and muddy after practice and being recognized for your dedication.) We've made it very clear that the best way to get a POR in the future is to be an active participant in the troop program right now - participate constructively in meetings, attend campouts, look for opportunities to step up to unofficially fill a void, do whatever task you're given to the best of your abilities. Life is about decisions and recognizing the associated consequences. We can guarantee active members the opportunity to advance. Others are welcome to share in the adventure when their schedule permits, but must recognize they don't have the same likelihood of eventually earning Eagle. Along these lines, we just had SPL election and tonight the incoming SPL was given a copy of attendance records for the last year with a recommendation that he consider past history as an indicator of future reliability as he selects his staff. That's going to make some parents howl, but we decided it was time to clearly demonstrate that you can't sit on the sidelines waiting for an opportunity to be handed to you. (The fallout is going to be interesting...) We've also used High Adventure trips as an incentive to stay active. One of our written requirements to go on trips is that they be active in the troop program - loosely defined as taking part in troop meetings and especially campouts. The opportunities alone seem to have invigorated a number of our older scouts without really using it as a threat, but we did have one hard case last spring. Had a scout who was on the list to go to Philmont, attended all crew meetings (most just before troop meetings) and shakedowns, but then left and didn't attend any troop campouts. When he first signed up, we knew he had been inactive and we counseled him and his parents on the need to get active again in the hopes he'd get re-energized. As of about 5 months out, nothing had changed. More discussions with scout and parents - still plenty of time to come on a campout or two. Finally, during conference with scout, he told us he was only staying with the troop until Philmont, then he was dropping out. Well, Tommy, we're hoping that Philmont might change your mind about the fun and benefits of scouting, but this is only for active members of the troop and we have a waiting list of guys that would love to jump into your slot. Being registered isn't good enough - without attending at least one troop campout within a year, we just can't call you "active." We have a couple of great campouts coming up - pick one, come join the fun, and we'll get off your back. He didn't and is gone, but in his place there was one other very happy young man hiking over the Tooth of Time back into Base Camp with memories for a lifetime. Decisions have consequences.

GKMom, I'm glad it finally worked out. Congratulations to you all for sticking to the high road and doing the right thing. I am, however, confused by "We still have to write the COR about why we're leaving the troop." Is this a real BSA requirement? I've never encountered it, but don't have much experience in this area. If this is not a BSA requirement, I'd give the COR a quick phone call and leave it at that. Your family has been through the wringer already and I seriously doubt the COR has been kept in the dark. Good luck in the new troop! -mike

Mich, Our PLC recently decided to bump up patrol size to 10-11. I know it's not optimal, but most of our guys are involved in many outside activities, so they are never all present. For what it's worth, if we have at least 2 guys from a patrol going on a campout, they camp as a patrol. We might group them together with another patrol if we're having a competition that would put them at a significant disadvantage, but only for the competition. For everything else, the patrols stay intact. Good luck! -mike

Eaglepacker, OA Trail Crew may be one of the best kept secrets in scouting! My first trip to Philmont was many moons ago, but I've heard it's an excellent program. And you can't beat the price of $150 for 2 weeks in the mountains - even if the first involves some hard work. The bonus is you'll be totally acclimated to the altitude and really ready to roll when you hit the trail the second week. I heard they still had a few openings at the beginning of this summer ('04), but I wouldn't wait too long to apply. If you're looking for options to get to Philmont and are ready for a real challenge, I heartily recommend the Rayado Program. I have done this one and can say without hesitation that it changed my life. Cost is about $600, but it's a 20-day adventure. I spent some time talking with the Rangers who ran the Rayado program this summer and was impressed by the updates they've made. Still lots of hard core adventure that regular crews don't get to do. For more info, try the following: http://www.philstaff.com/phpr.html I couldn't find an official BSA site with the detailed info and forms, but you can request them from the site above by clicking on "Request More Info" at the bottom of the left column. Good luck! -mike

Sorry - I don't buy it. The solo scout's buddies are a few feet away - not 150 yards. You can hear through those walls like they're thin air. In bad weather, it's easy to check in by yelling between tents. (I've done it in raging storms. Key is to keep them fairly close.) About the only thing you can't do from the next tent over is kick your buddy. That being said, there are some things to consider when deciding who will be solo. - Older, more experienced camper preferred by a wide margin. (If there are none, reconsider tripling up - they're all small anyway.) - Don't solo a scout who has special needs (medical/social/emotional) and has a higher likelihood of needing help. (For example, history of asthma or epilepsy. Or exhibits "judgment issues.") - Don't solo a scout who is showing signs of hypo or hyperthermia, dehydration, etc. - Make sure scout is willing to be solo (and is not being shunned by his patrol). - Place the solo tent in the midst of others. - If weather is a factor, have someone else verify tent, location, and equipment are all OK. (For example, does it look like he has adequate bedding and clothes for warmth?) - Have a quick chat with scout about what to do if he needs help or needs to leave the tent at night. (At Philmont this summer, we were advised to take a buddy if we needed to get out for anything more than visiting the closest rock, if you catch my drift. OGE - We didn't get the same advice about intentionally going solo for quicker escape.) My $0.02 -mike

Eagledad, Right on! And write on!! But I think we blew right over Hops' question about how to get V Patrol started. Hops, There are Pros and Cons to Venture Patrol. Consider copying some of the info in here for your SM to read. Then discuss it with him and maybe others. You've heard from a few of us about pitfalls. If you move forward with plan to pull older guys into Venture Patrol, work proactively to head off the potential problems. You don't need a Venture Patrol to do high-adventure stuff. Good luck! -mike

They may work great for some, but Venture Patrols about killed our troop. Within about 3 years of their forming, the Venture guys were almost totally disengaged from the troop. Very few were willing to be leaders and almost none of them would attend troop campouts. Yes they usually had a high-adventure activity in the summer, but no activities except for a few shakedowns in the spring. We dissolved the Venture Patrols about 1.5 years ago and have seen significant improvement since we dispersed them into regular mixed-age patrols. The older guys are almost all active leaders and have good participation in monthly campouts, etc. I believe a key to success is plenty of high adventure activities for the older scouts, as mentioned by LPC_Thumper and Eagledad. We have 1-2 events every year and are gearing up for 2-3 starting next year. This keeps the older guys interested and looking forward to coming back. (And the younger ones cant wait to join in.) We also make it clear that a requirement for participation in the high-adventure program is that a scout is an active member of the troop. We also form temporary groups for high-adventure trips, but to reduce confusion, we refer to them as Crews with an elected Crew Chief in charge. All members remain in their normal positions in the troop as patrol members, QM, PLs, SPL, etc. High-adventure crew meetings and functions (shakedowns, etc.) are always scheduled to deconflict with troop activities. The crews come together and function mostly outside of the normal troop structure. The only exception is the ASPL/High-Adventure whose official troop job is to oversee, plan and promote the program. As the crews are formed, the ASPL/H-A serves as leader for the Crew Chiefs. After the trip is over, we have a big celebration party to show parents slide show of pictures, tell stories, present gifts for Crew Chiefs. Then the crews are dissolved as we start planning for the next adventure. Troop structure is never disrupted and members from every patrol come back charged up with stories and skills to share within the patrols. This appears to be working for us. Your mileage may vary. -mike

Bless you - we feel your pain. 1st problem - getting Webelos invited to Troop events. You might try giving their leader enough copies of the invitation/flyer to just give one to each Webelos scout. Better yet, have a Boy Scout visit a Webelos den meeting to give them flyers along with a personal invitation - convince them they are going to have fun. The flyers rarely get the young one's attention, but they will remember when a scout who is only a few years older than them comes to talk about Boy Scout adventures. 2nd Problem - chaotic pack meeting with no structure. I hope the den meetings are better. If so, this might not be such a big deal. If you just can't stand the pack meetings, I see two options. 1) Since you've seen it done better, offer to help them get started on the right track. Every pack is run by volunteers and I'm sure they'd love the help. 2) Start hunting for a better pack. There's also the option of skipping pack meetings, but that's not a great option. Good luck with both! -mike

We don't ban a lot: * Electronics (music or games) - but I did allow a scout to use music with headphones at bedtime on the last campout - he said he needed it to block out the noise and sleep. (Guess we didn't tire him out enough during the day! We can fix that!!) Like others, electronics OK in the car, but they stay there. * Sodas * Anything dangerous, illegal, or immoral. I've been on several cross-country trips with the older guys the last few years. I allow them to provide tapes/CDs to play on the stereo - with the warning that anything I decide is filthy trash will be confiscated and thrown away. Of course, I get paybacks when I play some of my music when it's my turn. On the first day of the first trip, I decided to "educate" them with a sampling from an ancient cassette from the early 70s. To my embarrassment, one of the songs flunked my test, so I popped the tape out and stuck it in my pocket. At the next gas stop, I made sure I was in front of the guys going into the store and quietly threw the tape away where they could see me. "Oh, Mr. F - you can't throw that away - it's awesome!" "Sure I can and I must - it's trash - that's the rule." I've never had a problem they know Im serious. I also encountered some guys headed to the checkout counter with an inappropriate magazine. (Not Playboy, but bad enough.) Guys I dont think thats appropriate. Gee, Mr. F you didnt say anything about magazines! OK, guys, heres the deal. You can buy the magazine, but Im going to hand it to your mother when we get home. Magazine went back on the rack. We used to ban playing cards from campouts, but decided they can be appropriately used as a form of recreation during down times (like during rain). But I was surprised when my Philmont crew pulled out a big bag of poker chips our first night on the trail. I couldnt believe they were willing to hump the extra weight on a strenuous trip. But they had a blast holding poker tournaments every evening in camp and got to know members from other crews who came over to get in on the action. I know my old scoutmaster would disapprove, but I monitored closely and it sounded like they were all having some good natured fun. Not the way I would have picked to spend my few evenings in Scouting Paradise, but theyre not me.

Troublemaker, Your concerns are right on. When a troop grows too big, the ability of the scouts to run the show is compromised. It's a conflict between letting all comers in to join the fun versus knowing somewhere in there the level of fun will be surpassed by chaos - or unacceptable degrees of adult intervention. Right now, your troop is attractive because it has a vibrant program that others want to be a part of. If you do nothing, the problem could become self-correcting that is if the program suffered and scouts started dropping out at a faster rate. Within a couple of years, the word will get out that Troop X is no longer the best around and the flow of incoming Webelos will drop off. I've seen this happen where a troop quadrupled in size in 4 years, spent a lot of money gearing up for the masses, then plummeted with a lot of good guys disillusioned and dropped along the way. Two recommendations: 1. Its OK to set a limit on the number of new scouts you accept. This isnt necessarily only driven by the size of your facilities. If you meet in a church fellowship hall that could handle 300 people, that wouldnt be your limiting factor. The leaders of the troop need to spend some time in some strategic planning. How big do you want to be? Why? What are the Pros & Cons? How can we adapt? Etc. 2. Attempt to share the wealth and help all troops in the area become stronger so all are better prepared to deliver a quality program. From the sounds of it, your feast is likely someone elses famine. Support your local Roundtable and be prepared to share ideas when you have the opportunity. Some might be resentful and stubborn unwilling to learn and adapt. But others might have a powerful curiosity about whats going on over there in your unit. Good luck and keep up the great work! -mike

For this case, I'm with the "let him go" crowd. Don't spend any additional energy trying to change his mind - just forget about it and go have fun. In fact, have so much fun that the other guys think he's crazy for deciding to quit after it's over. But I agree this sometimes isn't the answer. We had a problem with some similarities on a Philmont trek. From the beginning - 1.5 years before the trip - we made it clear in writing that Philmont was only for scouts who were actively involved in the troop program. We didn't set numerical limits but defined program as troop meetings and campouts. As we tracked things, we noticed 2 scouts signed up for Philmont hadn't attended anything in almost a year - except for Philmont crew meetings and shakedowns. We had a conference with the guys and they said they didn't want to have anything to do with scouts - they justed wanted to go to Philmont, then they were quitting. We told them we hoped Philmont would help change their minds about the fun Scouting has to offer, but they had 2 months to attend some meetings and at least one troop campout, or they would be replaced. One had his attitude adjusted and is still with us today. One dropped out and opened up a slot for a very happy young man who got to take his place. Again - we didn't hold it against them when they said they planned to drop after the trip. But we did insist they meet a minimum requirement of participating in the rest of the troop's program in order to take part in the good deals the troop had to offer. Good luck! -mike(This message has been edited by Mike F)

Stephen, My hat's off to you. Other concerns and discussions seem petty. Prayers to you, the other diligent searchers, and Garrett's friends and family. -mike

Two observations Past - my hometown was hit by a hurricane in the early 60s. I was a Cub Scout at the time and was in awe of the Boy Scouts shown on the evening news helping to stop leaks in a dike. The Boy Scouts had been mobilized to help (along with every other able-bodied person). Present - there were some serious floods in our state last year and the cleanup effort was huge. I made dozens of phone calls, spoke to relief coordinators, shelters, etc. Nobody was willing to let the Scouts in to help if they were under 18. They were too afraid of liability. It's a shame - volunteer help turned away - all we get to do is write the check. I know - there are other things that could be done to help (clothing drives, toy drives, etc.), but the guys were really excited about having the chance to do some real work. Because this area was a few hours away and it was doubtful we'd be able to do anything once we got there, we didn't go. If/when our help could ever be used closer to home, I think we'll just go and start pitching in.(This message has been edited by Mike F)

Wilderness Medical Institute has become a part of the National Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS). http://www.nols.edu/wmi/ Lots of classes offered around the country. Don't seen any near you right now, but there's info on their site about sponsoring a class and bringing them in. They are a first class outfit that do this stuff full-time. -mike(This message has been edited by Mike F)

muckraker, Skills drills alone will get old after a while. The idea of a competition campout is a really good one. Have some fun, win some totems for the patrol flags, leave enough time for instruction in weaker areas. I know your SPL/PLC will be in charge, but it doesn't hurt to prime the pump a bit with some seed ideas. John D's comment about making things more "true to life" led me down a different path. Here's a few ideas First Aid For a meeting night. Tell the guys we'll be practicing first aid at next week's meeting. (Groans...) Have them bring all the standard stuff they might need (including triangular bandages, stuff to make stretchers, etc.). While the guys are going through the opening inside, have some cars "rearranged" in the parking lot to simulate a multi-vehicle accident. Position victims. For a real shocker (and to add realism), doctor the victims up using moulage techniques. (That's realistic, fake injuries. For starters, see http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/instruction/simulations.htm). It's amazing what you can do with some corn syrup, red food coloring, pieces of turkey bone, and modeling clay. You can do burns, compound fractures, severe bleeding, cuts, etc. When the victims are in place, barge into the meeting and tell the guys there's been a horrible accident outside and we need their help - bring everything they have. All the local ambulances have been called out to a nearby train/bus wreck, so we're on our own. It will take a lot of work, but they'll be talking about this meeting for years. Knots 1. Instead of just drilling knots, have competition to join short ropes to reach stranded swimmer (simulated). Can't use the same knot twice. Nobody can tie more than one knot, etc. 2. Competition to see which patrol can tie the most different knots. Nobody can tie a second knot until everyone has tied one, etc. Lashings 1. At troop meeting. Have chariot races. Take three sturdy poles about 6' long. Lash them into an A-frame with diagonal lash at the top and two square lashings at the bottom. One patrol member rides (standing up and hanging on tight) while others pull the "chariot" around a course. First patrol around the course with chariot intact (and all tied correctly) wins. 2. On a campout where you have access to some wood and maybe other supplies (big plastic drums are ideal), have a raft building contest. All knots and lashings have to be correct. First raft in the water and around a buoy wins. (Our guys spent hours doing this and had a blast.) After all rafts are built, you can just have raft races. Later awards can be for the raft that held up the most number of scouts, the best submarine, etc. 3. Campout. Pioneering craft emphasis. Build a tower, rope bridge across a creek, etc. Have patrol competition in building useful campsite gadgets. Sounds like you guys have a great troop and program. Hope you can find some of these useful to keep the fun in it. -mike

ScoutDad, They're right - the 2-yrs clause is to ensure they've been actively camping lately (i.e., within the last 2 years). This clause is in there because too many scouts drop off on the camping as they get older and OA membership is for "honor campers." Scoutldr's right, too. They aren't actually in competion with each other - there are no limits to the number of candidates each scout can vote for - each is supposed to be evaluated based on their own qualifications as a scout. But as a member of our local Chapter Election Team, I can tell you it's human nature to compare and it's extremely rare for a ballot to have all names checked off. The more older/experienced/mature candidates are more likely to get in. In short, yes, your son was eligible for consideration, but I wouldn't sweat it. It's great that your son is an active camper - encourage him to keep it up. In the meantime, he'll continue to grow in the eyes of his peers and will be in excellent shape next year. I also personally think he'll get more out of it later. There's a lot of meaning in the ceremonies that are hard for very young guys to grasp. I didn't make it the first time I was eligible, either. Back in the day, you had to be 14. I was so excited to get in at 15 that I jumped in with both feet - becoming involved in dance team and ceremonies - and was awarded the Vigil Honor at the end of high school. That came as a surprise to me, but I think I was determined to make up for lost time and never looked back. -mike

Zippie, Good ideas already. I'd start out with a brief description of the program. Be sure to include things like citizenship, service, and duty to God. I wouldn't worry about slide show (unless you really like doing that), but would bring a scrap book or photo album with pictures of the kids in action. One other thought - how many guys in the den are members of your church? How many are not members of any church? For many scouts, scout meetings in a church are the first time they ever set foot in one. Once they learn it's a fun (not scary) place and some of their buddies invite them to come on Sunday or to special youth events, it's a way to gain membership. Another thought. Did you ask around the den about using another home or garage for meetings? Other parents might be willing to provide a place to meet as long as someone else remained in charge of the program. I'm sure something will work out. Good luck! -mike

We have a large troop and a new SPL. Troop has had long-standing problem with continued talking and noise during announcements, etc. SPL tried a new tactic this week - he kept track of all the wasted time and made them all sit perfectly quiet for the same amount of time before the closing. (Fortunately, it was only a minute or so.) He got lots of positive feedback in post-PLC. I'm making him a copy of this thread to pass on some of the other great ideas y'all had. -mike

Update After much effort, our scout with disabilities was able to complete his Philmont trek. He and his crew of fellow 14-yr olds completed itinerary #5. We were able to get his Doctor Dad father on the crew to assist him. How did it go? It was a struggle for all involved. After working out for a couple more months, the physical limitations were reduced, and he was physically able to pretty much keep up with the others. On the downside, he had some outrageous (and profane) outbursts and several of the members of this younger crew were right at the edge of their capability, so there wasn't a lot of extra energy to help him cope. And there were plenty of other 14-yr old issues going on in the crew that caused a lot of distress. Crew advisors aged visibly while on the trail. (Just half kidding...) I summary, I wish we would have been able to convince his parents to let him wait another couple of years, but the grin on his face when I ask him what it was like to watch the sunrise from the top of the Tooth of Time makes me glad we made it happen now in case he never gets another chance. (But we're all glad it's over.) IWGBTP! -mike(This message has been edited by Mike F)

Eagle Foot, I feel your pain, but don't think you can force dads/sons from getting together in small groups to do things together outside of troop activities. Fishing MB doesn't require scout to catch 3 fish at scout activity - only says to catch 3 fish, so you can't deny them the applicability of all activities to advancement. Might be able to deny the nights of camping if your troop disallows family camping toward Camping MB, etc., (but that's another long argument). Also might be able to disallow Tend-1stClass requirements depending on your troop's policy toward who has signature authority and requirements for witnessing. But you can emphatically stress to both scouts and adults the need to support the troop program first. It's OK to have outside activities, but do them with the understanding that troop campout the next weekend has priority, too. This is especially true if any of the participating scouts are in positions of responsibility. Normally this kind of extra activities aren't a problem, but having about 6 per year is a lot and sounds intrusive. You might be able to find out what kind of extra things they're doing and get them involved in helping bring those ideas into the troop planning process so more could enjoy. I am confused about one thing -- is it true they are saying these aren't scout activities, but are conducting them on scout property? I don't think they can have it both ways, unless your local council allows private groups to use their propery and the event has been registered as such. Good luck turning this group's ideas and energy into a positive force for your troop! -mike

Biggest blow-up I've ever had with a parent was over this requirement. Week after week this Scout would come to the meeting a little more overweight and tell us that he hadn't done any practicing on his own since the last meeting. So week after week we would put him through the paces - and he continued to get worse by every measure. After about 2 months, the dad confronted me and demanded signoff. I explained situation and refused to sign - scout wasn't making any effort to show improvement. Unfortunately, dad was also CC. He waited until I was out of town for a couple of weeks, then rushed son through the SM Conf and BOR. None of the other adults happened to notice that dad had signed off about a third of the Tenderfoot requirements - starting with fitness. (One a side note, 2nd & 1st Class were signed off the same way - all by dad - and nobody noticed. Really sloppy. SM trying to prohibit any adults from signing off on requirements in the future.) Back to the original question, we encourage them to exercise regularly so they will improve and we start re-testing after 30 days. Must improve in all areas to pass requirement. Pull-ups measured in 1/4 increments.

I gotta agree with some of the last posters - this water hole is poisoned - time to leave, while reporting it's condition so others might be warned away. Don't sweat the move. People change jobs every few years (on average) - it's time to learn another life lesson/skill. Don't dwell on "the way they did things back in the old troop" - just quietly enjoy the fresh air.

Congrats, Hops!

hotdesk, There's room for lots of discussion - you need to do some homework on Northern Tier website, etc. Lunch - can't beat small plastic jar of peanut butter and bagels. Yes, the jar is bulky trash, but packs a lot of calories and nutrition into small volume. Personal equipment - military jungle boots, mosquito head net, 100% DEET, wide-brimmed hat, nylon shorts (with mesh liner), polypropelene shirt, long-sleeve nylon shirt. Last, but not least, good rain gear - you'll use it every day. (Not poncho - rain coat or jacket.) Fishing - red/white "daredevil" spoons - lots of them (you'll get snags and lose many) Preparation - practice some canoing, team-building with crew, some cardio-vascular training, some upper body strength training. Expect to be wet all day, from the time you put on your wet boots in the morning until you climb into bed that night. If you're lucky, you'll have dry shoes and clothes to change into when you make camp - count your blessings. Experiences - the best of what the great outdoors has to offer: beautiful country, unspoiled wilderness, bald eagles, no crowds Get ready for an excellent adventure!!