BadenP

SP "Excessive", not true at all and your last post just proves my point. Why should you or anyone as a unit leader have to create a methodology to recruit hispanics? They have paid staff at National who's job it is to do just that for you. Publishing bilingual handbooks is a given but does not mean that National has developed any viable or successful programs to accomplish the goal of more hispanic membership, that hispanic cub soccer program was a total joke. The truth of the matter is that the department decision makers at National are nothing more than scouting profesionals who have worked their way up through the ranks, survived 30+ years in the field, but are ill equipped to handle the responsibilities or requirements of those cush positions, so instead they punt and usually come up short. Time to trim some deadwood at National.

Barry Sorry my friend but your analysis of Scouts Canada is mostly rumors and innuendos instead of truth. Like all scouting organizations they have had some tough times in the past. The facts are they have had membership increases for the last three years and are still the LARGEST youth organization in Canada, the BSA can not even come close to making the same claims. They have a new CEO who has a real vision for the future of the organization, and has already implemented changes to the program that the volunteers and youth have told them they would like to see. Scouts Canada have already reviewed ALL of their cases of child abuse to insure that everything was done within the law and handled properly and above board, without waiting for lawsuits to hit. It seems to my Canadian friends that their scouting organization is much more in tune with the needs and desires of their youth and leaders than the BSA is with their own. For an interesting comparision go to the Scouts Canada website to see what they have done lately. Personally I wish National was more open to and really cared about what their leaders thought and what the youth of today REALLY wanted, all it would take is one CSE who was a visionary and not afraid to make changes instead of being part of the good old boys network.

Two things that the National BSA is good at is creating grandiose programming ideas that they know stand little chance of success in the field, ie urban scouting, Cub soccer, Hispanic scouting. The second thing is spending huge sums of money to test these programs that they already know stand little chance of success, then they can tell everyone look we tried and it just didn't work out. It just shows that the so called movers and thinkers at National are totally inept, unqualified, and inexperienced at implementing much of anything except new rules and regs, which are a laugh in themselves, no more red wagons, etc., etc. Let them plan then the new CSE in less than five years can start all over again. Don't expect much out of Wayne Brock either, he has been little more than a corporate yes man in the BSA and he will be gone in three years or less due to his age. What the BSA National really needs is an outsider,sucessful, knowledgable, business oriented, lover of the outdoors, who understands and knows how to deal with an organization who has lost their way at the top levels, and who can come in and make the much needed radical changes to pull the BSA out of their continuing downward spiral.

Three word reply to this topic : Who Really Cares? I love to see the passion fly about something that does not affect the BSA or scouting at all, just a group on a remote sight 12,000 miles away. Merlyn can really get to some people with a harmless little article. Besides Australia is not part of the British Empire anymore and hasn't been for a long time now. Cut the Aus. Girl Guides some slack already. Maybe it is time for the BSA to relook at their own DRP.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

The new ranks for Boy Scouts will be: Cupcake Scout,Internet Scout, I-Pod Scout, TechnoScout, Computer Hacker Scout, and the highest rank, Lost in the Woods Scout. None of these ranks will require any hiking, camping or any outdoor activities whatsoever so the helicopter parents will not have to worry about their little boys ever getting a boo-boo. All rank advancement and leader training, including WB21C, will now be totally done online. Troops will now have the option of having their meetings online as well. Well what did you expect if you want the BSA to be in sync with the world of todays youth.

j good The truth of the matter is that the number of DE positions nationwide continues to shrink due to councils closing and merging, and it looks like this trend will continue. However DE positions do have a high turnover rate due to the demands put on the person and the long hours it requires. It is just a matter of timing and best qualified for the position. Don't stop trying.

yeah BSA24 You would fit in just fine in 1938 with your attitudes, be ready to leave tommorrow at 8AM, LOL. bnelon The program has changed and been modified so much since then that it doesn't fit into todays BSA programs or rules and reg's. You can always pull some of their old outdoor ideas and projects and use them in your program as long as they don't violate the G2SS. Our crew loves doing the original pioneering and tracking skills as part of their camping trips.

Barry I totally agree with the last line of your post, however Get brings up some valid points. As far as the age thing is concerned, too many scout leaders when they get into their fifties are really scared to give up the reins,so to speak, because they feel they will lose their connection to scouting or the pride they feel being a SM or a Crew Advisor for so many years. However is that reasoning taking the boys best interest into consideration or is it just an issue of pride and loss for the leader. I gave up my Venturing Crew Advisor position for the crew at the age of 54 even though the crew and parents begged me to stay on. I had been preparing several associate advisors to take over for a while, and with the best interests of the youth in mind transitioned over to the crews CC/COR positions. I still go on many of the crews outings, which I love so much, just now I don't have to do anything but serve as a chaperone. Sometimes a veteran scout leader needs to know when it is time to step down or get prodded into making that decision. It is never easy, there is always the fear of being discarded or feeling useless, however there are still things your unit will need your advice and help with. On my last official day as advisor the crew and parents presented me with a beautiful plaque giving me the unofficial position of Advisor Emeritus,shades of Follow me Boys, which I truly will treasure forever. Now as CC/COR I am still busy getting the crew the support and resources they need to run the super program they do. They still ask me to do instructional classes for the crew, and attend all their outings, especially the big outing each summer. For me it seems I now have the best of both worlds.

jgood ponz brings up a valid point, in order to even be considered for a DE position the BSA does require a bachelors degree from an accredited college/university. With the job market being so lean right now there is a lot of competition out there. Where you went to school and what your major was could be a deciding factor in making the final decision for the councils in which you have interviewed.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

I think Lisabob brings up an excellent point about the percentage we are reaching. IMO a big part of the problem is that BSA as an organization continues to get further away from its basic roots and program every year. What made the BSA a unique organization was that its emphasis was built around the outdoors as were its activities. With the US population becoming more and more sedentary the BSA program has followed suit and many of the pack, troop, and crew activities have also become more sedentary in nature, and much less fun and challenging.

j good Just a thought, after reading your posts here you come off sounding a little too desperate for the job. If you are reflecting the same thng in your interview that could be a potential problem in getting hired. No boss wants to hire anyone who is way too overzealous or desperately begging for the job. You need to be cool, project yourself as professional, competent, and grounded, and tell them why they would be lucky to have you on staff. Don't give up, just review in your mind what you may have said and did in the last interview that could have cost you the position, and work out some new interview strategy.

emb021 I agree with your last post, especially your synopsis of the current mentality about leadership training coming out of National. IMO this is why the quality of program delivery nationwide has fallen in quality so much. As I said before the one size fits all training is nowhere near as effective with the three programs being so dramatically different in focus, delivery, and goals. It is also sad about PTC following suit offering generic superficial leadership training. When will National ever learn they are just hurting the volunteers and the program quality delivered in the field. That is why I really like our SE who is more of a visionary and willing to try new things to making scouting in our council better with a higher caliber quality focused program for Cubs, Boy Scouts, and Venturing/Sea Scouts.

emb021 Not to split hairs but there is NO OFFICIAL WRITTEN MANDATE from National supporting your claims. What you are referring to are only eligibility requirements to attend and nothing more. That is not how it is in my and several other neighboring councils. IMO, and from a logical point of view Boy Scout and Venturing leader training should be seperate because the programs are very different as are the goals. When you combine the two you just dilute the quality and focus of the training. This is reflected in WB since they have incorporated Cub Scout leaders and Venturing leaders into the mix, the result has been a broad brush, one size fits all approach that lacks the depth and content that each of these groups leaders really need to run a real quality program.

"Venturers under 18 should go to NYLT and over 18 to WB, that is National policy" - emb021 Sorry emb021 that is NOT, NOT National policy. Venturers are not subject to adult training rules within the crew. A teen who is active in a troop or crew will get very little from WB. Besides how many teens over 18 are still really active in a troop or crew? Very few. The reality is that WB was designed for ADULT scout leaders not for teens, and NYLT is designed to teach young boy scouts leadership skills,with little to offer older Venturing teens, that is what Kodiak was designed and developed for, and how it should be used.

"Most Venturers are not trek ready"- qwasze I don't think that is really true, at least not in my experience or in my council. The teens we get for Kodiak are really open to a challenge, and we do an extensive questionaire beforehand to see what their outdoor experience has been and model the trek to be challenging but not overwhelming for them. We have had Venturers from crews who do little to no outdoor activities and they always seem to be able to reach deep inside and succeed. Of course the more experienced outdoor teens help the others to complete the trek as needed, part of developing those leadership skills. Anyway I think the problem many of these type of trainings have is that they have been so scaled down they leave little to no challenge for the participants. Our teens come back feeling they have really learned and accomplished quite a lot, and so do many of the adults who come along on the trek.

jgood Eagle92 gives some good advice. Any council is looking for someone with real people skills, who presents himself well, has a good idea of what he brings to scouting and the council.Don't be afraid to ask in depth questions about the council, the district you will be assigned and the expectations they have of you. Both Eagle and I are former DE's and we have seen both sides of professional scouting. My experience in a nutshell, be open and honest with your volunteers and they will help you 100%, never try to put anything over on them and show them you really care about what they do by being an active participant in the district activities without trying to control everything. For the almost five years I was a DE I exceeded all my FOS and Unit Growth goals every year, why because I could trust my volunteers and they knew they could trust me. It is not an easy job, long hours, weekends and nights, but if you do your job well the rewards will be great. In spite what you may hear during training in Irving professional scouting is not about learning to manipulate volunteers to do what you want them to do, those guys wind up burning out their welcome and credibility real fast. Treat your volunteers with respect and they will do the same for you. Good Luck.

Hotair brings up the biggest problem with NYLT "that it parallels WB21C." The venturing crews in our council have pretty much ignored the program. Instead, as Tokala stated, we have beefed up the Kodiak training substantially to the point where we have had crews from outside our council asking to participate. The SE is fine with the Kodiak program being offered. WB21C in the opinions of our adult Venturing leaders belongs to adult participants who have a slightly more tolerant attitude than the teens would with the more monotonous and irrelevant parts of WB21C.

well said Moosetracker. Besides how many people even read that ridiculous magazine. Ammoland, what a joke, oops maybe BSA24 does. Norris has really lost the last of his credibility now, bad enough he has his own character on the computer game World of Warcraft. Walker Texas Ranger has lost his marbles.

shortridge I agree with your synopsis. Maybe the problem at National and on the local level too many packs, troops, and crews are concentrating too much on the bookwork and rank advancement rather than giving the youth more of the outdoor adventure and challenges that are exciting and fun, and would advance them in rank even faster than sitting in a room with their books signing off requirements.

You know what Callay for being a self proclaimed sociologist you really are out of touch with the reality of poverty in this country. Just because you may have put a dollar once in a homeless mans hat does not give you extensive experience or knowledge of the poor. As I have stated before I worked with a troop in East LA for three years, as part of my ministry I have and continue to work with homeless shelters, soup kitchens, and food banks to name just a few and have extensive experience working with the poor and destitute in this country. By the way I am white and do not hate whites as you assert in your posts. The comments you and BSA24 have made about the poor in this country are indeed racist, prejudical, elitist, and false. People never choose to be poor, most are born into it and because of their environment continue in the same mode as their parents. This is due mainly to the inferior schools they attend giving them a poor quality education than prevents them from going to college. The poor in this country are the forgotten ones, the slums continue to get worse with gangs, drugs, and prostitution and no politician or agency wants to deal with it head on. Yes, there are those exceptionally bright individuals who break the poverty cycle and get into college, or excel in sports and get recruited, but they are the exception not the norm. Back on topic, as far as uniforming is concerned, that troop in east LA I talked about in prior posts never were in full uniform, and the uniforms they did have were second hand. A group in the community got a small group of the local merchants together and put together enough money to get the kids new shirts. My point was those kids were so proud of their uniforms they could care less about uniform pants, socks or hats. Twice at the council camporees they took first place overall among all the troops attending from all over Los Angeles. My point that troop exemplified the true spirit of scouting more than any other troop I have come acroos in my over 25 years in the BSA. All of these kids came from dirt poor families and scouting was their only experience where they were given the opportunity to see firsthand that they were just as good as anyone else, and that they even could be the best. So excuse me for getting so emotionally involved with some of the comments made in this thread, but comments made from ignorance and at the expense of a certain group of people, who share the same dreams as the rest of us but have been denied the same benefits as us, really ticks me off with their insensitivity and bigotry.

emb021 You are so correct about the new/current Venturing shirt. Our crew maintains an inventory of the older shirts for the members who need an official BSA Venturing shirt for camp staff or district/council functions. You are also right about the melting, one of the new members of the crew was given a new shirt by his parents. The crew went to a lake on a hot day and the kid wore his new shirt and left it on a rock in the hot sun while he went swimming. When he was done he went to get his shirt and half of it had literally melted into the rock face. He ripped away the half still intact and that was his banner for the rest of the trip. I love the quality materials and workmanship of all the current BSA uniforms, lol.

All CO's select their own COR, not the units. The CO via the COR gets one vote on the council no matter if they are sponsoring one or three scouting units. Technically there should be only one COR per CO who represents all the CO's units in district and council. Refer to BSA pub. "The Chartering Organization".

After spending years camping in the woods, having encounters with bears, and as any ranger will tell you there is no one size fits all model in dealing with those critters. The only surefire thing is make sure that there is a tall tree nearby and that you can climb it faster and higher than the bear. We have had bears wander into camp during mealtime and even when we made loud noises and banged pots and pans the old guy just stood up and growled as we quickly backed away and left dinner for him. He ate his fill, left the camp a mess, and wandered back in the direction he came from. Over time I have seen bears eat and enjoy all kinds of food including chips and soda, and have never seen them attracted or repelled by tobacco. In my experience never confront or try to scare any bear, unless you are backed into a corner with no where to go, and then hope and pray to whatever supreme diety you believe in to get you out of that mess unharmed.

SP Maybe that's the way its done in Seattle's council but in ours we do have a core of COR's, myself included, who do attend every council executive board meetings and per BSA Regulations DO get to vote on all the issues brought before the board. We have voted on the improvements at the camp, whether or not to harvest some of the timber at camp, elimination of a professional position at the council level, big budget items, to name just a few. A couple of years ago the then SE was planning to sell the council camp in order to expand/improve the council office, the SE wanted to double the size of his office, and hire more professionals. We had 85% of the COR's present at that meeting, not only did we vote down that proposal the board sided with us on a no confidence vote concerning the SE, within 3 months that SE was gone and a new one was hired. Five of the COR's were asked to sit on the selection committee for the new SE.

BSA24 Your last comment just continues to prove your indifference, arrogance, and ignorance of the reality of the world around you. I hope you enjoy living in your little plastic bubble world for now because one day it will break and reality will come crashing down on you hard. Who knows even you could wind up poor and destitute someday, and some bozo will come up to you living on the street in a container box and say to you, "You choose to be poor", that is what is called poetic justice.