BadenP

All the debate in the world usually will not persuade a liberal or a conservative to change their positions on most topics, usually all they want to do is to force you to change your opinion. Acco, do you know this Churchill story. At a party Churchill had gotten quite inebriated and made a comment that a female guest was not very attractive and quite homely. She heard the comment and immediately started to reprimand him that he was an unruly drunk to which he replied, "That is very true madam but when I wake up tommorrow I will be sober."

It is like I have said before, National puts unrealistic expectations on the SE's and DE's, the practice of paper units is more widespread than you think. As a former senior DE I have witnessed DE's and SE's do some unscrupulous things, in my four years as a professional executive our council had three SE's, two were transferred for embezzling FOS funds and one was moved for overspending and putting the council in huge debt. Money and numbers are important in scouting but not to the point where they override the very principles of Scouting.

Rooster Hunts post contains some real truths that you seem to ignore. So here is one for you from me, anyone who uses the Bible as a weapon to demean other Christians or non Christians in their own beliefs is not a true Christian but a self indulgent religious bigot. Jesus was accepting and open to all, you on the other hand are open to only a small select few who believe as you do. I suggest you take some scripture courses from a good theology school so you can properly interpret the scriptures true meaning rather than constantly taking them out of context, as you so often do to support your intolerance. "Beware of false prophets...", that my friend is how I see your views on religion.

For Petes sake Rooster give it a rest will you. You complain I accuse you unfairly and then in your last post you do exactly that which I observe you doing all along preaching intolerance for others beliefs. I think it is you who is doing the double talk here. In a prior post you stated you are no longer affiliated with a troop and my answer to that is Thank God!

Rooster All I can say is that your posts here and in the past speak for themselves. I was not accusing just giving my own observations which you are free to ignore. The anger in your responses however makes me wonder what other issues might be lurking inside you. However Rooster I wish you no ill will just peace and serenity.

Rooster I sent you a pm to answer your questions.

Using your position in Scouting to try to persuade youth or other unit adults to your way of thinking is a violation of the rules and methods of scouting as well as being a form of religious intolerance. Rooster, you are constantly degrading people on this forum who disagree with you and that too is intolerance. Everyone in this country has a right to believe and worship as they desire and for those beliefs to be respected, even if you disagree with them. Scouting is not the proper place to try to evangalize or persuade someone to a faith other than what they already practice. Any scout leaders who use their position to do so are required to be dismissed by the CO.

For my friend Rooster, if it is scripture you want then try Psalm 139, it answers your questions and shows that God is not your own personal God but the God of all. Remember even the apostles questioned Jesus about others doing good deeds in his name and demanded their condemnation, instead Jesus embraced their actions and he cured all who came to him no matter their background. Rooster may you find that same peace someday instead of the intolerance you show to others who believe differently from your interpretation of scripture.

Does the BSA define reverent other than believing in a greater power, no it does not. This is because a belief in God is not restricted to the narrow definition of Rooster7 or anyone else, any concept of God is way beyond humanitys limited ability to comprehend except on a superficial level. The Bible was written to give us a very basic human insight to the power of God, not to define him, as are the Koran and other major religious books. After two theology degrees and 15 years as an ordained minister I have seen religious intolerance as violent today as it was a thousand years ago. Instead of trying to force God into a denominational box we should embrace him in all his glory. Can we still hold to our particular religious beliefs, sure, as long as we understand that God is not Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, Buddist, etc. but the Creator of all humanity who share equally in his creation and promises. A scout is reverent should not only mean a belief in a higher power but also is understanding and tolerant of the beliefs of others. Sorry for the sermon.

Mollie, That is great news, I wish you all the best. Make sure your officers get the VLSC asap so they can develop a fun and active program, that will keep the crew healthy and growing. As a fellow crew advisor I welcome you to the world of Venturing.

I too have sat on many Eagle BOR's and I agree with all of you. During the interview it was usually fairly easy to tell whether or not the boy had properly finished his requirements and was ready by the way he answered the questions telling us about his time in scouting. One memorable case was a youth who played in a punk rock band with spiked hair, black fingernail polish and eye liner, he had just come from playing a gig. He threw all of us for a loop at first. His uniform was complete and perfect, and as he started talking about his time in scouting and what he had learned you forgot all about his appearance as the scout really showed through. He was a brillant teen and he knew his stuff. After we told him we had approved him he was so happy and he apologized for his appearance but explained his band had just done a free concert at the childrens hospital. I think he showed all of us on the board what the true spirit of scouting is all about. Looks truly are deceiving.

I love Boys Life. I just wish they had a magazine for Venture that would appeal to both older boys and girls, something like "Venture Life". If national started it I am sure Venture leaders and teens would love to contribute articles, myself included. Anyhow we need to keep Boy's Life around, it's a great magazine. I agree it helps to enhance the scouting experience for the youth.

Proud Eagle What you have to understand is that there are no uniform standards for Venture. The so called "official" uniform is only for those units that feel a need or desire for such a thing. Most crews, over 95%, create their own. My unit has a hooded sweatshirt from BSA National with the Venture emblem and unit information embroidered on, and they wear that with jeans, that is their uniform. Venturing is not like Exploring used to be, it is a non uniform division of the BSA for boys and girls totally apart from cub and boy scouts. A venture crew was designed this way by national to attract teens who do not want the uniform and advancement requirements of scouting, it is not or ever was intended to be an older boy scout troop.

Kristi, I really think that teen was your Christmas Angel sent to you as a sign that you are where you are supposed to be. I think what you are doing is already having a long term effect on the boys and the people of your town. Keep up the good work and Merry Christmas.

Kristi, All I can say is that your pack needs your leadership, don't let a bad CM get you down. Like NW said get someone who is detailed oriented in your committee to handle rechartering and will make sure every adult and youth is registered. You are the spirit of scouting in that pack, so I hope you will continue, the kids really need you.

OXCOPS Trevorum is correct, for the religious knot and AoL knot most scout shops will take you at your word and allow you to buy the knots. In fact I have never been questioned when purchasing advancement awards for either my uniform or my Venture youth.

Kristi, A suggestion, go to your local Chamber of Commerce and ask if you can set up a booth in a central park to "help save the pack". The stories you have told here would make good press and give the pack and city some good publicity. Then make some christmas decorations, mistletoe, wreaths, whatever and deck out your booth with lights etc. Have your boys in uniform and the people will come and buy an leave donations like you wont believe. Make sure you let the paper know in advance so they can advertise it for you. I did this with my inner city troop a few years ago and made $1,200 on a three day weekend. All it takes is some faith. Good Luck to you.

Bob You are incorrect, the CO can not choose, the BSA regulations that define what a post versus a crew are very clear and as I defined in my prior post. I was also a DE and helped organize these types of Explorer posts. They have additional requirements for the charter orgs. of posts such as firefighting, etc., as far as safety and liability coverage for the members. Maybe you need to take Venture Leader Specific Training Bob. Posts and Crews are very different in nature and purpose, thats why Sea Scouts were put in with Venture instead of Explorers. Talk to your SE at council if your DE is confused as you seem to indicate in your post Marcheck.

Explorer posts of today are all organized around career positions such as fire fighting, law enforcement, search and rescue, sports medicine, etc. If most to all of their activities revolve around fire fighting then they are a post not a crew. The key element is are they career oriented. Crews are specialized around activities such as mountain climbing, skiing, sports, backpacking, historical reinactment, etc.

Man, what a world we live in! This could severely cripple the BSA if military bases stop supporting units with their resources. As a DE the local bases gave us fantastic support for our camporees and other events supplying us with a water tank, help with the district first aid merit badge weekend, and the list goes on and on. The ACLU has got to go and so does their radical agendas(vendettas).

OGE I thought we clarified this on the other thread. What you said here is true, but what you don't know is that it is regional who decides which names to give the council based on the past reviews of the former SEs that served there. So in essence regional stacks the deck with candidates that they feel will best serve that council and who have expressed an interest in relocating to that area. For example when I was a Sr. DE I was offered a promotion to my choice of large councils in the western region. An SE is given similiar choices when they inform region they are interested in moving on. The rule of thumb is you always move to a larger council. An SE before he leaves does an evaluation on the whole council, staff, volunteers, community resources, etc. so that the regional office has a profile on every council to help them decide who the best available candidates would be. So the selection committee hires one of the guys that regional wants them to, just like in business.

Look in the Venture Handbook. If you are at an official scouting function such as a national jamboree, or at Philmont, or on a camp staff for example you would be required to wear the official uniform composed of the green shirt and the grey shorts or slacks. For everyday activities you can wear your own choice. Sea Scouts now have a blue polo shirt now they can wear on their activities instead of a uniform. It all depends on where and what the activity is that determines what to wear. The green shirt alone is not proper just like a boy scout shirt alone is not. For 99% of your crew outings their own design of a uniform is usually acceptable. I don't like those grey shorts and slacks either, expensive and not well made.

OGE, Proud Eagle is correct, Regional gives the Exec. Board a very short list of eligible candidates who they think would be a good fit into that council, and the council exec. board can choose who they think will be the best fit from those candidates. However, the council board can not fire an SE, they must ask regional to remove him if they have proper cause. Sorry for the confusion.

Wow is right, First it is the regional office who puts in and takes out Scout Execs, not the Council Board. Second, all regional offices appoint investigators to look into wrong doings by any scout professional at the request of the council exec. board. It is the regional office though that makes the final decision. One SE I worked for had extorted council funds,($10,000) for personal use and was removed and transferred to another council. No matter the outcome it will be a PR nightmare and the council will lose trust and credibility with the volunteers and the community for quite a while.

Bob is correct Venturers design their own uniforms, or can choose none at all. Law enforcement or Fire Explorers usually have a uniform similiar to the agency they are affiliated with.