BadenP

Unfortunately any FOS funds going to the VOA is at the sole discretion of the SE, there is no BSA requirement mandating a percentage be allotted to the VOA. After over 15 years in Venturing I have heard many of these stories, but good luck trying to find anything in official BSA publications to substantiate it.

If the MAIN purpose of your summer camp is to earn badges then your priorities of a summer camp are all screwed up. Camp should be fun as its first priority, and a learning experience as a secondary priority. The reason we continue to lose boy scouts at alarming rates is because we continue to cram down their throats topics and experiences that they could care less about. Too many troops are run like a schoolroom, but in this case the result has been boys dropping out in large numbers and troops folding up.

As a pastor of a nondenominational Christian church fortunately we do not have to deal with this issue very often. The local Catholic pastor by instruction from his Bishop told me that the policy in his diocese is that scouts in Catholic sponsored units must be given a "Catholic" emphasis in ANY religious discussions, instructions, or activities, such as troop or Eagle projects. The Bishop stated " he does not want any Catholic youth exposed to any Hypocritical, Blasphemous, or False doctrines or teachings." Sometimes I think it would be Much easier on scout leaders, CO's, and the youth if the entire "religious" aspect of scouting was eliminated and the emphasis put back on the outdoor program

I have to agree with most of you. If you build it, and build it right, going back to the beginning of the BSA with what worked and reemphasizing those aspects is the best starting point. BSA in the 21st century has become a stronghold for techno geeks and the outdoor program is practically gone in most areas. skeptic, I agree with your last post but the problem with the approach is that National loves to see camps fail so they can have the council sell them off and get their share of the money. In my council the last camp left standing last year had severe plumbing problems which closed it for the summer. The council SE rented a school auditorium and held a battle bot workshop instead for a week. He stated that they made a much larger profit on it then they ever did for camp. The result was the SE and council board sold the camp without informing any of the council unit leadership. The council lost over 50% of their scouts and 65% of their chartered units. The sad truth is this kind of action by councils and National seems to be the future path of the BSA, with no one able to stop it.

Stosh With the troop at my church the leaders tried a variety of methods, PLC, no PLC, SPL, no SPL, but what really seemed to be the issue was the way the program direction being controlled by the adult leaders instead of the boys. So a suggestion was made to the troop adult leaders to let the boys have the control and the boys decided to try a 1910 original BP style campout. It was a great success and the boys even left all their electronics in their packs. Mother Nature was the star and the boys had a ball fishing, rafting, and mountain climbing.

Eagle 94 In spite of all the naysayers here your PLC did the right thing that will also help the boys to mature faster and be ready for what life has in store for them. Also that is the way it is supposed to be done in scouting, no patrol should be all long time friends as that could lead to disciplinary problems in the troop. Boy Scouts is supposed to teach leadership and help boys mature into young men, you can't do that if your patrols are just gangs of school friends. KUDO'S to your PLC.

crew67 Let me tell you from 15 years in Venturing that in this case qwazse is correct, Venturers are allowed much more leeway in types of activities unlike troops or packs. Stosh if a group of boys decide to go go-carting for fun and it is not a BSA violation if the parents give their permission, and they can NOT be removed from a troop since it was NOT a scout activity. The GSS applies only to SCOUTING activities done as a troop, patrol, pack, or den.

To sum it all up what is truly wrong with the scouting program today begins and ends at the National Office, the CSE, and the unprepared and incompetent SE's they are placing in the field, many of whom are bankrupting the councils they are assigned to instead of building them up and making them successful.

For me this discussion is quite interesting as I have a Venturing crew that is half male and half female and we have a terrific program. We have invited girl scout troops and boy scout troops to join us on our outings and have had great success without trying to convince them to leave their own programs. As the song says "Girls just wanna have fun". As leaders I think we all know of weak troops and crews with little to no outdoor program and who are floundering trying to stay alive, allowing them to have some really great and worthwhile outdoor experiences has breathed some new life into those units. I look at it as an obligation to all of our leaders with successful outdoor programs to help struggling units instead of passing the buck to the Council, we all know what that will result in, Absolutely Nothing.

Stosh I agree with you 100%. Sea Scouting has had a strong and long time respected position in the annals of the BSA.

WOW This topic discussion went on for three years, and where are we now as the BSA continues to sadly flounder at an even greater pace, councils being merged at an even faster pace, membership continues to plummet, Mazzucca bailed out when all the "controversial issues" hit his desk, the gay leaders debate still has not been put to rest., National has taken upon themselves now to sell council camps as membership continues to drop. Twelve camps have been sold in my council alone since Jan. 2016 and seven more are on the block currently. People, the BSA is in a true crisis right now that will be near impossible to survive and what may survive may not be worth saving. But oh yes we still have those poorly made Chinese uniforms and patches In my own council of a large camp, over 100 acres which was donated years ago with certain criteria to be met has been taken back by the original owner. BUT WE STILL HAVE THE CHINESE MANUFACTURERS to save the BSA. Who knows what's next, maybe the scout handbooks will be written and printed in China too. I sincerely hope all of you unit and district scout leaders are doing well with your programs, we all owe the youth that much.

Eamonn I concur entirely with your synopsis of the situation. As a DE years ago I had two solid district committees in place which made my job goals a lot easier to achieve each year. I had the two strongest and best organized and run districts in the council , we had at least three times the district activities of all the districts and the volunteers loved it. Knowing your volunteers well and showing them you really do care about them and their units is the best recipe for success.

If your district committee is NOT helping your units deliver and develop solid programs for your units then they do not belong in their current positions and should be replaced ASAP.

The problem is not the District but rather those scout leaders who really do not have a clue how a council and district are supposed to work hand in hand in delivering the program to the youth. True in too many councils the only priorities are money and numbers and nothing else and that is where the conflicts and animosity begins. Some of the complainers here I think feel that it is the council's job to do everything to make a unit succeed rather than take responsibility for their unit leaders who do not go to training and do the absolute minimum in delivering an exciting program to the youth.

Time for National to do some deep soul searching of their priorities for the program and its future direction or face the very real threat of the extinction of scouting as we know it. It is truly sad that after a century of a great program National is dealing with a sinking ship of lack of direction and mismanagement.