Merlyn_LeRoy

I figured you wouldn't back up your assertions Ed. bnelon44, the BSA certainly didn't tell public schools that atheists couldn't join when schools chartered units.

Ed, feel free to back up your assertions/personal attacks. Just stating something doesn't make it so. bnelon44, the new part is how the BSA enforces their DRP. They certainly didn't tell public schools to kick out atheists when they chartered units. (fixed typo)(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

Before anyone complains about OGE's pun, remove the planck from your own eye...

The DRP Ed. Hoot away, that's all you add to the discussion in any case.

Ed, you exclamation points don't make your protests valid. Denigration is denigration.

I'm not a troll Ed, I'm ready to back up my assertions with arguments.

JoeBob, you may not have noticed, but the BSA bars atheists now, whether they are creating a "problem" or not. Sure, it's possible for some atheists to be members, but that isn't due to their not being a problem, it's due to few people knowing about it (and the ones that do, apparently not bothered by it). All it takes to get thrown out is for that information to get to the wrong person, which can happen in any number of ways, not necessarily due to any "problem" caused by the atheist. Saying every case has to be due to the atheist causing a problem is just blaming the victim.

Yes Ed, just like being told to ride in the back of the bus.

The UK SA's policy still tells atheists they are second-class citizens, just like an organization that allowed Jewish kids to join, but no Jewish adults. In some ways, that's even worse than just excluding Jews altogether.

Yann, the real reason is because the BSA was taken over by bigots years ago.

scoutfish writes: Now,, if *AT LEAST* half of all taxpayers believe in some sort of god or higher power, and since the government( voted on by a nation half made of religious tax paying folks) has never specifically said we should follow any one particular kind or form of religion.. then why should government funded entities - such as schools - not be allowed to charter a BSA pack/troop? Now,, if *AT LEAST* half of all taxpayers are white, and since the government( voted on by a nation half made of white folks) has never specifically said we should be any particular race.. then why should government funded entities - such as schools - not be allowed to charter a whites-only private club?

JoeBob writes: Atheists in Scouting are only a problem if they want to be. If they want to be a problem, they don't want to be in Scouting. I disagree; using the Dale case as a guide, doing anything that indicates a person might be an atheist can get them kicked out, such as writing a letter to the editor saying "under god" should not be in the pledge, or being seen in a bookstore buying a copy of "The God Delusion."

I haven't been namecalling in this thread at all. I've pointed out that Ed is being dishonest, but like any other line of argument, it's important to point out actual dishonesty to have a coherent discussion. Just because some people might use "dishonest" as mindless namecalling is no reason to avoid the term when it's apropos.

" a de facto "local option" exists in some units," Isn't that the definition of a local option. (Which I am against.) No. A genuine local option would allow gays and atheists into whatever units want them, even if National or anyone else knows about them. National can and will throw out gay or atheist members, even if everyone in their unit wants them to stay.

Well LisaBob, a de facto "local option" exists in some units, but it's a crap shoot on whether you get one or not; KnoxDad says he expects his son to be rejected past cub scouts, which certainly might be the case if it's headed by someone like skeptic or Beavah.

Ed writes: That's you Merlyn! Then you should be able to quote something I've written that fits one of those categories, Ed. Do so. What untruth am I telling? I keep telling you, but you can't learn things. Ed, you're being dishonest in your accusation that Dale was dishonest.

What would that be, Ed? You obviously don't understand what "troll" means, since you didn't use the term correctly.

You still don't know what a troll is, Ed.

So it was OK back when public schools flagrantly violated the law? Some "values" there, skeptic. But that still doesn't answer the contradiction between religion being a supposedly vital part of scouting while having public schools as chartering partners in the 21st century. DeanRx, schools didn't choose not to be chartering orgs, the ACLU threatened to start suing public schools that violated civil rights by running a religious club.

skeptic, if the "god" issue is foundational to scouting, how could so many public schools have been chartering organizations? For that matter, wouldn't National have considered public schools insufficient as potential chartering organizations?

Ed, you're being dishonest in your accusation that Dale was dishonest.

Ed, you keep dancing around what Dale is supposed being "dishonest" about. He didn't consider being gay to be wrong or not morally straight, so he wasn't being dishonest. You're the one being dishonest here.

No Ed, YOUR opinion is not relevant to Dale's opinion. He doesn't even know you. And it is completely unreasonable for anyone to follow SECRET rules that they aren't told, as in Dale's case.

No Ed, Dale didn't consider being gay to be "wrong," so in his opinion, he wasn't violating the oath & law. YOU might think Dale is in violation, but that's not Dale's standard.

Lied about what, Ed? There was no public rule against gays. What did he lie about?