Merlyn_LeRoy

Escape velocity of Mars is only about twice that of the moon, and a bit less than half of earth, and many Mars proposals use Sabatier reactors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reactor#Manufacturing_Propellant_on_Mars

Weather satellites have more than paid for the entire space program in lives and dollars saved. The space program is a net gain, not a net loss.

I've told you a number of times already Ed, you just can't learn. And you still haven't stated why you are ignoring what you think is a constitutional violation. Don't you care if the constitution is violated?

Ed writes: But it appears Merlyn doesn't care about this type of constitutional violation Wrong Ed; I don't think it's a constitutional violation. YOU do, I do not. So why aren't you doing anything about it? Don't you care about constitutional violations? I am still working with the Illinois ACLU to get rid of those remaining government chartered units; I DO do something about constitutional violations. You just whine but you don't DO anything.

Then FILE A LAWSUIT, Ed. Or don't you care about constitutional violations?

Put your money where your mouth is, Ed. File a lawsuit. There have been plenty of successful lawsuits against creches put up by government entities, and I think even a few unsuccessful ones against creches put up by private individuals in public forums, so if you're so certain you're right and the constitution is being violated, why not file a lawsuit? Or don't you care about the constitution?

Because they weren't displays put up by private individuals in public forums (legal), they were religious displays put up by government entities (illegal). Why don't you know this?

If it's a public forum, go right ahead Ed.

Sinks endorse a specific religion? Hey Ed, are schools prevented from serving vegetables because some people are vegetarians for religious reasons? Are school prohibited from having fish if it's Friday during Lent?

Ed babbles: So it's OK for our tax dollars to support religious freedom for Muslims but not it's not OK for our tax dollars to support the BSA? No, Ed; it's OK for tax dollars to support religious freedom for everyone, and to support things for public purposes.

It's because there's a demand for it now, OGE. Why does the reason for the demand make a difference? Michigan U also installed diaper-changing stations in the restrooms, should they have not done that because not all students have infants?

For that matter, what if some students were regularly washing their feet, and it creates the same kinds of problems as cited before, and the students never state why they're washing their feet? Is it OK to install floor sinks in that case?

OGE, should schools prohibit students from washing their feet? Wouldn't that be a violation of religious freedom for people with religious reasons to wash their feet? I don't think you could classify it as intentional vandalism. Suppose there's a school that has had several unsolved murders, students shot at night with no apparent motive; is it OK for the school to hire extra security? What if the murderer sends a letter to police stating he's only killing Muslims? Is the school now prohibited from spending money on extra security because it's only to protect Muslims? (Assume the murderer has sent a spent bullet as proof, and the ballistics match, and that all students being killed were recently identified as Muslim in a school story about the school's Muslim group, and the murderer states he's only killing those students, so Muslims are definitely the only target). Is it OK to spend public money if it's only to protect one religious group?

Ed, you need to post a link showing that some public school did it for religious reasons, and not practical reasons. The reports I've seen cite nonreligious reasons like safety and damage to sinks.

No Ed, I realize you can never learn things, but try to read for comprehension. Schools can install sinks for foot washing if a lot of students are washing their feet, regardless of why lots of students are doing that. The reasons for the students' actions is what 'whatever reason' is modifying. The reason the school installs sinks remains the same -- a lot of students are washing their feet. The school doesn't (and shouldn't) care why a lot of students are doing that.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

If the US military only paid for its own expenses and offered to do the same for any other similar large outdoor gathering, it would probably be OK, just as schools can install floor sinks if a lot of students wash their feet for whatever reason. But that isn't what the military did; they helped finance a private organization that excludes atheists.

I could, of course. Given recent instances of discrimination against atheists in the US military, they should hardly recruit from an organization that denigrates atheists. And the military didn't just show up at the jamboree, they helped pay for about 1/3 the cost.

I've never been able to find a copy of the original 1928 resolution. The resolution giving one year's notice to terminate references it; but that's no longer on the city's website that I can find. But here's a google cache of that resolution: http://tinyurl.com/phillybsa

Beavah writes: Nah, OGE, if yeh look earlier in da thread, he was proposing a higher level of restriction to access For ALL organizations, equally. Public schools can refuse to allow ANY outside organizations, which is ZERO ACCESS, and yes, THAT is also perfectly legal.

More holier-than-thou poseurs who denigrate the rights of atheists - yawn.

Ed, Philly hasn't gone back on their word; the agreement said that either side could unilaterally end it with one year's notice, and the city gave that.

Beavah, your "offer" is as genuine as your "concern" for atheist kids. I'd say more, but it would just create work for the moderators.

Yeah, the halcyon days when whites-only public swimming pools (paid for by everyone) were common, and lesser citizens knew their place, eh skeptic?

"in perpetuity" in a lease simply means it doesn't automatically lapse after a year/month/whatever. Leases like that persist until someone exercises one of the ways to end the lease, which in this case was giving one year's notice by either the city or the BSA.

Beavah, when a school charters a BSA unit, it's a school program, not a private program. At that point, you can't tell atheist kids to "get their own program" because it's as much theirs as any other program run by a public school. If you want a private club, you need to actually act like one.