Merlyn_LeRoy

SR540Beaver writes: But just like the BSA, the constant pick, pick, picking at CO's will have a cumulative effect. The CO has to put up with picketers, negative media attention and pay for legal counsel that takes money away from their purpose and mission. Do you honestly think the BSA is entertaining the change in their policy because they have finally come around to believing it's the right thing to do or because they have tired of the fight and continual cost? Refresh my memory; how many lawsuits over the BSA's exclusion of gays have been filed post-Dale?

The Dale decision is still the law of the land. Right of Free Association. Charter organizations can discriminate on membership with the full backing of the SCOTUS. If they're private organizations that can discriminate in those ways (sexual orientation, religion, sex, age), yes. But if a council is rash enough to start chartering public schools without the BSA allowing atheists, that won't fly. For reference, here are a couple of instances of scout leaders being rejected on the basis of religion (Muslim and LDS); I don't think there were any lawsuits: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/452361/SCOUT-LEADER-LOSES-HIGHER-POST-DUE-TO-RELIGION.html?pg=all http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700074848/North-Carolina-Scout-leadership-post-denied-for-Mormon-parents.html?pg=all

At this point, hopefully this particular part of the debate will pretty much fade into the background until someone wanting to get attention or push a new agenda roils the waters again. Atheists, of course, will still fight it. Of course, they're only being "PC" and trying to "get attention".

When whomever "outed" James Dale did it Nobody "outed" him, he appeared in a newspaper article as one of co-presidents of the Rutgers University Lesbian/Gay Alliance. At the time, he didn't know gays weren't allowed. There is a good chance that should the PC crowd simply left it alone back then that the issue would have already resolved itself Stop with your continual "PC" strawman.

kindred virtues Moral relativism. I've only ever seen straw-man moral relativists; what do you mean by "Moral relativism" (and "kindred virtues" for that matter)?

A few news outlets are reporting this: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/boy-scouts-rethinking-of-anti-gay-policy-sparks-hope-outrage/article_70bd8b80-ce30-50db-bd50-c3d8672bd1c3.html ... The organization, which celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2010, has long excluded both gays and atheists as its national policy. [Deron] Smith, the Scouts spokesman, said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the Scouts continued to view Duty to God as one of its basic principles. So no atheists or public school charters.

BTW, there is a simple solution for atheists and Deists: Become a Buddhist. And Jews could become Christians to join restricted clubs.

It was always the local choice until Dale or shortly before No, it was a secret internal 1978 memorandum, which is the same year James Dale joined when he was eight. Just because the BSA didn't flaunt it doesn't mean gays were able to join.

So Neil Armstrong should have been kicked out for being a Deist?

> An atheist, likewise, could just say he doesn't believe gods exist so he has no duties to gods. I really can't see an Eagle Board accepting "I have no duty" to any of the Scout Oath duties. It would nullify the meaning of the oath as an oath. What about my hypothetical Deist who also has no duties to his god? Is he kicked out too? If so, why? There's no "standard" list of duties you MUST have to gods in the BSA, is there? If there are required duties, list them. If there are none, then how can coming back with an empty list be unacceptable?

I wonder where this fits in with the 1916 charter intent? Probably better than "The corporation may not operate for pecuniary profit to its members".

but I can't see a real atheist (agree, they are really rare in real life) able to discuss how he does his duty to God in his daily life (the Scout spirit requirement for every rank.) It could easily be the same as some Deists. Some Deists believe in a god that started the universe, but has NO involvement with humanity at all, and there are no duties toward this god. Such a Deist is presumably qualified for membership, even though their "duty to god" is nothing at all. An atheist, likewise, could just say he doesn't believe gods exist so he has no duties to gods. "It feels like I'm wearing nothing at all!" -- Flanders

People like you were excluding Jews 50 years ago "because we still have standards"

Ah, yes, saying the BSA still has standards by excluding atheists gets a free pass (even though it's analogous to an organization finally allowing blacks but still excluding Jews "because we have standards"), and nobody except me calls him on it, yet I'M the hatemonger. Fred, you're just a bigot. You aren't even an entertaining bigot.

Ever hear of the Mormon prohibition against coffee Brewmeister?

join a unit chartered by city hall. Won't happen if atheists can't join.

Like discouraging drinking, BREWMEISTER? Bigot.

Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organizations mission, principles, or religious beliefs Unless that organization also wants to admit atheists, apparently.

Like packsaddle, I'll believe it when I see it. Not sure if this covers atheists, but "mission, principles or religious beliefs" might mean it does.

Merlyn; please try posting accurate title. They obviously did not vote to leave BSA. Of course they did; that's what the vote was about. Your title suggests that they did. I can't help your invalid assumptions.

Here's their poll that closed on Friday: http://tinyurl.com/bflzsxe ... As a reminder, this Non-Discrimination statement is the same one that Pack families anonymously voted on and overwhelming approved back in August 2012. Our chartering organization, the Colesville Lions Club, also approved this statement in September and strongly supported us in posting this statement. In addition, the statement was discussed in detail with District Leaders and NCAC from August through October 2012. As was stated above, it was only recently that NCAC contacted us saying they would no longer allow this statement to be posted. ... There's also a notice on their front page: http://www.pack442.us (fixed URL)(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

The only difference is that we backward religious types still feel there is an element of personal choice and responsibility, eh? No, the difference is that you "backward religious types" seem to think that anyone who isn't also a "backward religious type" must, somehow, hold a contrary opinion. Or at least that's your own personal problem, Beavah.

I was a member before the BSA started throwing out gays and atheists; I was an atheist at that time, too.

Sorry Sentinel947, you're like someone defending a whites-only club in the 1950s; I'm someone who doesn't belong to the club, but I keep criticizing people like yourself who DO belong. Debating you doesn't put me on your side.

the BSA's IV files aren't filled with stories of men molesting GIRL scouts, now are they? How about female Venturers and Explorers?