Merlyn_LeRoy

Well OGE, that points back to my question - is a scout who enters into a legal, same-sex marriage in Mass. an "avowed homosexual"? Getting married technically isn''t a public admission of any sexual activity or even any sexual orientation.

Sexual activity can''t be a disqualifying factor, since older scouts are old enough to get married (as OGE alluded to). Do you assume a married scout stays a virgin? I think it would be even more interesting if a scout in Massachusetts entered into a same-sex marriage (as they could with parental consent under 18). Is he avowedly gay?

According to the idiots running the national BSA, no known or avowed gays are allowed to be members, period, youth or adult. You can''t change that rule, but you can ignore it.

This isn`t not a test.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

OGE, are you saying virgins aren't hetero- or homosexual? Those terms just indicate what sex they are attracted to, not whether they've had sex. Any scouts ever say "I like girls" within earshot? I'd say that qualifies as declaring their heterosexuality (or possibly bisexuality). PS: OGE, bsalegal.org is an official BSA website.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

I myself am so eager to see George W. Bush as an ex-president, I actively support him being awarded that status early.

Not living anywhere near Florida, I don''t have any firsthand information on Jeb Bush''s performance in an emergency.

"Better" compared to whom? His record on church/state issues is pretty bad, he uses the government to promote his religion like his brother & father.

I think a good record of RESPONDING to disasters is a much better metric than just witnessing them. The omitted qualification for president is not having served two terms previously (or one term and more than two years of a partial term). Cheney/Voldemort in ''08

Ed writes: So a student in a public school can walk down the hall reciting the 23rd Psalm for all to hear & will not be in violation of anything? Assuming the school doesn''t have some kind of blanket draconian rule against talking in the hall, sure. I find that hard to believe. Why? Students have free speech rights.

Oh, now I see. My reference to Madison was not about how it applies more "widely" in the sense of federal vs. state governments, but that the first amendment does not merely prohibit the federal government from creating a national church. Madison, for example, argued that it prohibited Congress from hiring chaplains. My remark was aimed at people who try to say that the first amendment only prohibits the creation of a state church, so official school prayers are not in violation of the first amendment. The first amendment is not that narrow in scope. [edit by Dept. of Redundancy Dept.](This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

Ed, will you never, ever state that "prayer isn''t allowed in public schools" again? Like I said, it''s pointless to try and tell you things if you don''t bother to learn.

LongHaul, who has said that Madison intended the first amendment to apply to the states? I certainly haven''t. The 14th amendment, which had nothing to do with Madison, applied the first amendment to the states. Before that, it didn''t apply. Given Madison''s writings, he would APPROVE of state governments being subjected to the first amendment, since he considered it a good restriction on governing in general; but he didn''t write it to apply to state governments, and if he had it might not have passed.

Ed, you are ineducable. The example I posted had NOTHING to do with the questions you asked. The example I posted FALSIFIED your earlier remark that prayer isn''t allowed in public schools. Got that? This is a false statement: "prayer isn''t allowed in public schools" Stop making that statement. It''s false. But you keep perpetuating this lie, because you can''t learn things. Once you FINALLY stop making this false statement (and don''t start saying it a month later), then I might be convinced that you can learn things. You have yet to demonstrate that you CAN learn this simple fact.

A single counterexample: kids can pray over their lunch if they want. This is not an exhaustive list; it is one counterexample, which is sufficient to show that "prayer isn''t allowed in public schools" is false. This example has been shown to you before, which suggests you can''t learn that simple bit of information.

Ed, how many times will you need to be corrected on statements like "prayer isn''t allowed in public schools" before you finally figure out that isn''t a true statement? Until you show that you can learn at least that much (and retain it, by not repeating the same lie a month later), there''s really no point in trying to explain anything to you.

Well Ed, you never show signs of learning, so there isn''t much point.

The first amendment didn''t apply at all to the states until the 14th amendment and subsequent incorporation rulings. But even ignoring that, James Madison, the guy who actually WROTE the first amendment, had said it covers more than just a prohibition against a national church.

No Ed, I and many others have tried to tell you about the legal issues around prayer in public schools, and you keep repeating the same false things long after you''ve been shown to be wrong numerous times.

Well Gonzo1, I''m all in favor of teaching about "world religions", but you also seem to think that having children pray as a group is somehow teaching about world religions. It isn''t, that''s conducting religious rituals, which is entirely different.

It looks like being elected honorary president of the BSA isn''t automatic, but is voted on by the executive board. But there also doesn''t seem to be an option for anyone else to be elected as honorary president, only honorary vice-presidents. http://marketing.scouting.org/resources/factsheets/02-531.html I can''t find anything official on the honorary head of the GSUSA; it looks like first ladies as honorary president started with Ladybird Johnson, as she''s the earliest listed. [fixed URL](This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

Ed, I thought you said you learn fine. So why don''t you know?

No Ed, you really can''t learn things. If you could, you''d already know which one of the three cases you present would allow prayer, and which two would not, and why. Gonzo1, why do you think public schools ought to teach children religion?

http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/09/092707richardson.htm (Hanover, New Hampshire) Gov. Bill Richardson said Wednesday night that he is if elected president he would her would refuse to accept the position of Honorary Chair of the Boy Scouts of America because of Scouting''s ban on gays. The New Mexico governor made the pledge during a Democratic presidential debate in Hanover, New Hampshire. Richardson was asked if he would accept the chair of the organization, traditionally offered to presidents. "No, I wouldn''t, because I think as president I would commit myself, number one, that I will be a leader that prevents discrimination on the basis of race, gender and sexual orientation," he replied. No president has refused the offer of chair of the Boy Scouts. In 2000 the Supreme Court turned down an appeal from a scout leader from New Jersey who was fired when the organization learned he is gay and in a longterm relationship. The high court ruled that the Boys Scouts and its affiliates could prohibit gays because it is a private organization. The ruling said the Constitution gave scouts the right to choose its members. The Scouts also prohibits atheists. Membership in the BSA has declined since the Supreme Court ruling. A number of cities banned the scouts from using public facilities, and charitable groups like some United Way chapters cut off the scouts. But, in cities where agencies like the United Way continues to fund the BSA it has been alleged that troops are being encouraged to list fake names as members to boost enrolment making the group eligible for more money. In 2005 the FBI began an investigation into charges scout leaders in Alabama, Georgia, and Texas pumped up the number of scouts in their troops in order to obtain more funding from the United Way and other charitable organizations. Richardson, like other Democratic candidates, has specifically targeted the LGBT vote. But during last month''s Democratic Presidential Forum sponsored by Logo television, which owns 365Gay.com, and the Human Rights Campaign Richardson in response to a question said, that he believed that sexual orientation was a "choice." He later apologized saying he had misunderstood the question. Richardson has a record of being generally supportive of LGBT issues, although he opposes same-sex marriage, preferring civil unions instead. Last March Richardson recalled the New Mexico legislature to deal with several bills including domestic partner legislation that died when the session ended. In 2003, he issued an executive order providing state employees, both gay and straight, with the option of providing their partners health insurance through domestic partner coverage. Under the order, domestic partner coverage is not available to employees after they retire, while spousal coverage is provided. Late last year Richardson joined LGBT activists in calling for a statewide domestic partner law that would provide the same benefits as marriage. The measure passed the House but the Senate stripped out many of the bill''s provisions, making it according to gay rights groups meaningless. When the revised bill returned to the House the original language was restored but the session ended before the Senate could vote again. Richardson in March was the keynote speaker at a major event in Los Angeles sponsored by the Human Rights Campaign.

Ed writes: I don''t have specifics but prayer isn''t allowed in public schools. Wrong Ed. I and many others have tried to explain this to you, but you can''t learn. Students can pray in public school, Ed. It was a long time ago, then someone got offended, sued & now there is no prayer in schools. Wrong Ed. As you say, you don''t have "specifics." You don''t even have facts. TheScout writes: Yes, it would be a shame for public schools to promote morality. Promoting prayer has nothing to do with promoting morality. Do you want unelected school bureaucrats to decide what prayers your kids are to recite? If so, why on Earth do you want such a thing?