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Everything posted by Merlyn_LeRoy
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Onehouraweekmy, as far as I can tell from the BSA's official websites, there is no official don't ask, don't tell policy in operation. Anyone doing so would be in violation of the BSA's rules on gays and atheists. So are you advocating that people disregard official BSA policy by operating under their own DADT policy?
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How could any rule of an organization ever change if all members have to agree with them as written, and any amount of disagreement results in loss of membership? That's an absurd way to operate.
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Moderator, if you're going to remove my response to accusations of namecalling (where I point out that I am only purposely mangling his screen name because he intentionally mangles mine), then please edit the original accusation of namecalling. Or at least edit out all the dozens of times snide Boy Scouts have intentionally mangled my screen name in an attempt to insult me. Thanks.
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(This message has been edited by a staff member.)
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(This message has been edited by a staff member.)
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Equivocation is equivocation.
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Gold Winger writes: One of the funadmentals of a religion is that the adherents believe pretty much the same thing. That leaves out... oh, pretty much all of them.
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eolesen writes: Volker, being friendly and changing the membership guidelines are mutually exclusive. So when the BSA changed the membership guidelines to allow female scoutmasters, that was not "friendly"? When the BSA allowed younger kids to become cub scouts that wasn't friendly?
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(This message has been edited by a staff member.)
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CA_Scouter writes, quoting me: "The US was founded on religious freedom, while the BSA practices religious discrimination. " What religions does the BSA discriminate against? Unless atheisism is a religism. ( don't bother responding Merlyn, its just a play on words ). No, I will bother responding. Discrimination against atheists is "religious discrimination". Discriminating against someone who is single is discrimination on the basis of marital status, even though they aren't married. "The BSA is not at all in line with the beliefs and practices the USA was founded on. " The BSA is not in line with SOME of the beliefs and practices the USA was founded upon. I submit the BSA is in line with MOST of the beliefs and practices the USA was founded upon. Hey, so's the KKK.
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(This message has been edited by a staff member.)
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Volker, I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well. Yes, the BSA does NOT spell out their membership requirements. There is NOTHING on their membership form that says gays can't join. I've pointed out the same thing -- a membership requirement that is so important to go to court over, and so absolute that BSA national kicks out anyone known to be gay as soon as they are found out, yet they don't put it on their membership form. The religious bit is somewhat better, but if you go strictly by their declaration of religious principle, polytheists can't join, nor can some deists or others who may not ascribe to their god the traits that the BSA does in the DRP.
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The government excludes taxpayers all the time; you have to determine if it's legal. In past posts, I actually cited e.g. Minnesota state law which stated no public school could exclude any student from any of the school's programs on the basis of religion or creed (363.13 if I remember the statute correctly). A BSA unit that excluded atheists that was sponsored by a public educational institution would be in violation of that law. Now, all any of you need to do is show how this particular program is in violation of the law. Good luck with that. There are plenty of medical conditions that are related to race or gender, but perhaps none of you are aware of that. Besides, what does this have to do with scouting? Oh, nothing, except, like I said, it's a red herring.
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Obviously, you have to read their press releases or their legal issues website at bsalegal.org. Doesn't every kid's organization in Germany have their own legal issues website to explain their membership requirements that are not on their membership forms? What a country!
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Funny, they say they were created by a grant from the R.K. Mellon foundation, a private foundation. I guess they got themselves wrong, eh?
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Perhaps you could explain how a program created through a grant from a private foundation is illegal? Or maybe you're saying it's a duck? I'd say it's just another red herring. When I first pointed out on scouter.com that public schools couldn't charter discriminatory BSA units, the red herrings came flying. Oh noes! People kept trying to drag up other things that they insisted were either illegal discrimination, that somehow I was personally obligated to go after, or (with no hint of irony) the exact opposite effect, to show that public schools somehow can discriminate against atheists and everything is A-OK. Your post is clearly meant only to bait me. It has nothing to do with scouting. However, whenever I see supposedly "good" scouts like yourself trying this kind of thing, it only confirms my original claim that public schools have no business sponsoring a group that foments such attitudes towards atheists.
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I personally don't understand how following the beliefs and practices the USA was founded on is so wrong. The US was founded on religious freedom, while the BSA practices religious discrimination. The BSA is not at all in line with the beliefs and practices the USA was founded on.
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Should have known. You don't even know what an ilk is. I know what "ilk" means, I just don't know why you think I should respect a "No Mervyn Thread"
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You didn't respect the "No Mervyn Thread" Why should I respect a "No Mervyn Thread"?
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How much religion is there in Scouting?
Merlyn_LeRoy replied to Novice_Cubmaster's topic in Issues & Politics
However, in the early comments in this thread it was stated that the BSA's statement was "denigrating" to Atheists. I in no way think it meets that definition in fact, tone or intent. Well, I think it does. Saying only theists can be the best kinds of citizens is belittling to non-theists. -
OK, this thread is only for me to post in. Got that? I'll sometimes post replies to other threads in here, since some people can't seem to stand other people voicing their contrary opinion. "Same reason, Ed." And here's another reply. "And I'm sure you'd say that saying, say, Jews can't be the best kinds of citizens wasn't all that terribly denegrating, and deserving of government largess."
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Same reason, Ed.
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No, as in, no, your statement is incorrect. You might want to read what I wrote in the post where you spun off this thread. Especially the text after "In my opinion, the BSA denegrates atheists; one example is..." You may notice that my given example appears nowhere in your first post, and that the purported reason you DID write in your first post appears nowhere in my post that you spun this thread off of. This may constitute a strong hint that what you wrote bears no resemblance to what I wrote. Hence, I show my disagreement with your erroneous summary with "No, Ed."
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No, Ed.