Merlyn_LeRoy

Yes, just like the people who say gays should be excluded to keep all the pedophiles out, when their own Youth Protection Task Force National Director was busted for possession of child porn, the Teton Council is being sued for knowingly allowing a pedophile to work at their camp for years, and now Evans, shows how the BSA's exclusion of gays only allows people to pretend that the problem is being addressed. But every time something like this crops up, people keep bleating how gays have to be kept out.

When Douglas S. Smith Jr was arrested for possession of child porn, bsalegal.org removed references to him from their web site. I don't think they can do that with the namesake of one of their major lawsuits: http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_7635617?nclick_check=1 BERKELEY -- Berkeley police on Tuesday arrested a 64-year-old Sea Scout leader on six felony counts of sexual assault on boys ages 13 to 17 who are members of the maritime youth group. Eugene Evans of Kensington, who has been the skipper of the Berkeley group's boat for 35 years, was booked into the Berkeley police jail. Police served search warrants at his home and "several other locations," according to a police statement. The group maintains its boat, the Farallon, at the Berkeley Marina. Police said charges could include lewd and lascivious acts against a minor younger than 14, oral copulation with a minor younger than 16, and penetration with a foreign object of a minor younger than 14. The alleged crimes occurred over "several years," the statement said. Police said they "have yet to determine definitively how long Evans may have been molesting youth," and they believe there may be more victims. Evans is a retired teacher from Encinal High School in the city of Alameda, according to the statement. The Sea Scouts lost a Supreme Court Ruling against the city of Berkeley in 2006 over gay rights issues. The group sued the city for revoking its city funded berth at the marina because the group refused to disavow the Boy Scouts of America's exclusion of gays and atheists.

Gold Winger writes: I've also run across small police departments chartering Venture Crews, obviously they haven't appeared on Meryln's radar yet. Why? maybe because they wanted the opportunities to take advantage of some of the opportunities that Venturing offers. Oh, they aren't off my radar, Gold Winger....

That seems to have been part of the original deal to allow them to build on public property - the building immediately became property of the city, and the $1/year lease started.

The city council didn't break the lease agreement, the lease has always had a one-year cancellation clause. And the reason the BSA gave the building to the city was because those were the terms that allowed the BSA to erect a building on public property in the first place.

Better than going to a UU church would be to ask Jeff Liebmann on his blog: http://uujeff.blogspot.com/2007/11/boy-scouts-and-press.html

Wow, boorish invective disguised as religiosity.

Gold Winger writes: The last six rules that Moses chisled into those rocks were adopted by societies around the globe. Societies that were polytheistic and atheistic. Why? Because they make sense to keep a society under control. No, because societies already had them, well before Moses existed. Do you think Moses was the first one to suggest that murder, stealing, or lying were wrong?

Ed writes: Stealing is wrong regardless of the reason. Is it wrong to steal battle plans?

Ed writes, quoting me in part: Let's take a step back. Even the scholarship titled "THE HUBERTUS W.V. WILLEMS SCHOLARSHIP FOR MALE STUDENTS" doesn't list sex as a criterion. Oops, it does say "male" in the section that lists the possible majors. So there might no be any race requirement but there sure seems to be gender discrimination going on. But that must be OK. Or is it? Who was arguing whether it was OK or not? I was pointing out that the scholarships did not list race as a criterion. I think this whole tangent is a good example of why clear requirements are a good idea. The BSA still does not list 'heterosexual' as a requirement anywhere. Their DRP can easily be interpreted to exclude polytheists as well as atheists, but polytheists are apparently OK, at least for now. Why doesn't the BSA spell out their membership requirements on their membership forms? They have no problem listing sex and age requirements.

Gold Winger, the entire quote I was responding to was this: "I believe by the stances and aims/missions of each organization one can imply; the organization for Advancement of Colored People would probably not award a 100% Caucasian student a scholarship. " By "wrong", I was referring to joni4TA's assumption that it's valid to assume things from the "stances and aims/missions of each organization". Now, the NAACP scholarship is handled through the UNCF: http://www.naacp.org/about/resources/brochures/education_scholarship_application.pdf ... All applications must include the required materials. The UNCF/NAACP will not be responsible for making duplicate copies of applications and/or required materials. If required materials are not included with each separate application, your application will be considered incomplete. All incomplete applications will be disqualified. Send to: The United Negro College Fund Scholarships & Grants Administration 8260 Willow Oaks Corporate Drive Fairfax, VA 22031 ATTN: Kimberly Hall Phone: 703.205.3400 www.uncf.org And the UNCF says this: http://www.uncf.org/aboutus/faqs.asp Q: Does UNCF only support African American education? A: UNCF was founded to address the funding inequities regarding educational resources for African Americans. UNCF believes in higher education opportunities for all Americans, however. Though most funding supports African American students, UNCF member schools do not discriminate and UNCF administered scholarships are open to all ethnic groups. Now, the NAACP scholarship requirements don't list race, and it appears that the NAACP scholarship is one of the UNCF's administered scholarships, which explicitly says it's open to all ethnic groups.

Gold Winger writes: Then you cannot possibly say that NAACP has awarded a scholarship to a white person, can you? Lucky thing I've never said that, then. What I HAVE said is "None of the scholarships that the NAACP handles seems to have race as a requirement." And they don't.

Gold Winger writes: "Well, you'd be wrong" Can you name one white person who has been awarded a scholarship by the NAACP? Cite your source. I don't know the names of any NAACP recipients, but their qualifications for scholarships don't list any racial requirements, even though they list many other requirements. Honest organizations list all their requirements for programs clearly.

joni4TA writes: "None of the scholarships that the NAACP handles seems to have race as a requirement" ------------------------ Exactly my point - the BSA isn't explicit on its application that they will not accept known or avowed homosexuals as members either, are they? ------------------------ I believe by the stances and aims/missions of each organization one can imply; the organization for Advancement of Colored People would probably not award a 100% Caucasian student a scholarship. Well, you'd be wrong. Also, do you realize it was created mostly by white lawyers, and didn't have a black leader until years later? And because of the BSA's policy on avowed homosexuals, it seems they will remove a leader who makes him/herself a known, or is an avowed homosexual. But they don't state this. How is J. Random Applicant supposed to know? And why doesn't the BSA simply state their requirements plainly? What's the point of that? I find it especially abhorrent for those to keep their membership with an organization, hoping to change its policies by subversion from within. From the point of view of many, this has already happened - the subversion was the mormon and catholic influence at high levels to exclude gays.

Oops, it does say "male" in the section that lists the possible majors.

Some people makes word games into their gods. Some people genuinely don't believe in gods, and consider such word games to be ridiculous.

None of the scholarships that the NAACP handles seems to have race as a requirement: http://www.naacp.org/about/resources/brochures/education_scholarship_application.pdf Even the scholarship titled "THE HUBERTUS W.V. WILLEMS SCHOLARSHIP FOR MALE STUDENTS" doesn't list sex as a criterion.

The national BSA seems to think there was a problem, and now they explicitly state to avoid them: http://www.scouting.org/relationships/34196/01.html ...[Note: Public schools and government organizations do not serve as chartered organizations]... But it seems a lot of people in this thread suggest that the best way to address a potential problem is to ignore it and hope it doesn't get worse.

Ah, so you didn't tell the school until you had to change it. All the years before then, you never informed any school officials that the school was practicing religious discrimination. Gotcha.

Brent, I am being truthful; public schools can't practice religious discrimination. Chartering a BSA unit, where the chartering organization, in the BSA's own words, "owns and operates" it, means that the public school owns & operates a private club that excludes atheists. No, so far there hasn't been any public school willing to throw away money and try to say in court that, as a public school, they CAN exclude atheists, because public schools actually get real legal advice, such as the recent John Jay High School incident, and the lawyer tells the school it's a non-starter. Now, to get back to why it's important for people to understand the BSA's membership requirements, back when you were chartered by a public school, did you ever tell any school representatives that atheists couldn't join your group?

Volker, what Brent fails to mention is that his own BSA unit was chartered by a public school for years, which is NOT legal, due to the BSA's discriminatory membership policies. The BSA didn't recharter thousands of BSA packs & troops chartered to public schools until they were threatened with lawsuits. And I think that's another good example of why it's important to spell out membership requirements, like the recent John Jay High School incident shows, where the school suddenly found out it was running a SafeRides program that didn't allow atheists.

LongHaul writes: Merlyn, your post >>Just googling places, I still see plenty of people who didn't know and are genuinely surprised that the BSA doesn't allow gays or atheists, and the fact that their membership applications don't spell this out doesn't help either.

LongHaul, do you know how many people don't know that the earth travels around the sun? I think it's very dangerous to assume everyone knows the BSA's membership requirements, especially the ones that aren't listed.

"Everybody knows"? I don't think so. Just googling places, I still see plenty of people who didn't know and are genuinely surprised that the BSA doesn't allow gays or atheists, and the fact that their membership applications don't spell this out doesn't help either.

onehouraweekmy appears to be saying that gays & atheists CAN join under a DADT policy, but I can't find one. No, there's no "ask" policy that I know of, but that doesn't imply that there is an official DADT policy, either.