Backwoods

Thanks Eamonn.

Amen BSAC. Thanks for the post.

Managing the schedule before it manages them is important. We try to limit our kids' activities, but they have so many opportunities and interests. We encourage them to see things through, and to this end we ask them to carefully consider the future requirements of each thing. Right now My two daughters are both Junior girl scouts and my son is a Cub Scout. They are each allowed one sport per season, and no multiple teams (yup I know kids that play soccer on 2 or 3 leagues!). But now Maggie has a horse and Noelle is in acting lessons... at least Alec still plays with bugs in his spare time and doesn't feel the need to go beyond good old little league and scouts! I wonder what kind of role model I am for this right now, being a little overextended myself on the volunteer front! Oh well, I have done some neat stuff recently within and without scouting. I will narrow things a little bit as my obligations are completed. Hopefully I can manage good time management for them! by the way I would STRONGLY recommend Richard Louv's book "Last Child in the Woods" as it relates to this very topic.

ASM 59, check out the following topic thread under the program area: "Behavior That Warrents Expulsion from Troop?" it has a long discussion on some bullying behavior. Remember there is no such thing as overly agressive play. If there are more than one complaint about his behavior, SR540beaver is absolutely on point; "where there is smoke there is fire". His concealing the behavior from adults speaks volumes about it as well. It is happening behind your back on purpose. The confusing thing for boys who act aggressively toward other boys is that they often perceive others as acting aggressively toward them. Every bully feels like they are on the outside looking in. The other boys may genuinely not like him and he gets that. Do not give him an opportunity to deny it. Let him know you know and review Troop policy with him as you put him on notice. Let him know that his honesty and his taking responsibility is the route to redemption. Do not talk in vague terms, "bullying" is a value judgement that he can argue with. You need to attach it to real behaviors. Letting him know that using excessive force and then gloating when someone falls to the ground (or whatever) is not acceptable and is called bullying. Finally, don't wait to confront him officialy. When you do do so out of concern for the wellbeing of all. He may need shadowing for a time in order to get things straightened out. Waiting for things to straighten themselves out will yeild poor results in this case.

"We believe an avowed homosexual is not a role model for the values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law. Boy Scouting makes no effort to discover the sexual orientation of any person. Scouting's message is compromised when prospective leaders present themselves as role models inconsistent with Boy Scouting's understanding of the Scout Oath and Law." -BSA Press Release June 28 2000 in response to the Supreme Court Finding in the Dale case. Hot topic, not likely to become any less so. Luckily Eamonn you are a thoughtful and considered leader who seems to be an advocate for children. I would agree that given the above reference the BSA advocates a don't ask don't tell policy for adult leaders, indeed, "any person". I personally agree with OGE that scouts for the purpose of scouting are considered asexual. Your instinct to laugh at the inuendo and rumor are admirable and, I feel, appropriate. Don't waver from this position and you will be fine, for a little while. Think now about how you will deal with the next concerned parent and the gossip of the kids. I would suggest that you continue to respond as succinctly as possible. Don't get caught up explaining your postion. Your position is Crew Advisor and that is that, not sexual orientation inquisitor. I also have to say that Baden has a point as well. It isn't that you are breaking any rules, heck it's taken this forum just to get a handle on what the actual rules are. Kids being who they are test limits. Not opposing his joining the Crew might be seen by the scouts as permisive behavior on your part. I would advise you to keep an eye on their behavior, the moment that they step across the line, let them know they've done it in the way you always have and they will get it right quick! Good luck, you will be in my prayers.

The one facet of this thread that I think should be discussed a little more fully is that this incident demonstrates a major lack of leadership and guidance. How on earth did pellet-gun boy end up being invited to an OA ordeal? Both the adult leaders of the Troop and the boy leadership are culpable in this situation. "Boys will be boys" is not license for assault, harrassment, or threats of bodily harm. Not only should the Troop leadership take immediate action, but I would encourage the Parents to review their rights to press criminal charges. I actually happen to be a psychologist who is also a scouter, and a gun owner. The first rule of firearms handling that we teach has to do with treating all firearms as if they are real and live. It was the first thing that I learned and the first thing I would wager that each and every one of us reviewing this post learned. Pointing any fiream at another is a "thou shalt not" in firearms safety. It was a significant threatening gesture. One of the facts of bullying behavior is that bullies escalate. Period. Bullies tend to up the anti, from teasing, to exclusion, to minor physical violence, to causing significant injury. If this behavior is what is meant by "boys will be boys", the Troop is allowing boys to practice assaulting other boys and to become more skillful bullies. Not exactly what B-P had in mind I'd wager. I would bet that the adult leaders in the Troop are not BSA trained or not trained well. In my mind this incident is a symptom of a very poorly run unit that needs imediate intervention. If I were the parent of the boy threatend, I would send a formal letter of complaint to the head of the chartering organization and to the local Council Executive. I would ask that the Troop's leadership, supervision, and training be reviewed. I would also move my boy to another unit imediately. Do not stop, do not pass go. In the letter you should note that this behavior is the kind of behavior that makes for sensational news. I would be carefull to note that I was not making the statement as a threat but to illustrate that scouts acting like gang members makes for a very dramatic contrast, something that news organizations love. Emphasize the values that you as a parent believe in and encourage you to continue to try to salvage your child's scouting experience. Finally, for the leader (or scout?) who initiated this post you have a choice to make. Either work your tail off to fix what has become broken, or move yourself to a different unit. The Troop needs to realign its expectations. Scouting was not begun so that boys could be boys, scouting was begun out of concern that the moral fiber of young men was not being attended to and that nations fail because they do not ask their children to aspire to greatness. In reading the Scout Law, Oath, and Promise I find nothing about not asking boys to make an effort to change. On the contrary, scouting is about making an effort, about meeting challenges. Finally remember this, every incident of major school violence in the past decade or so began with bullying. The end result was devastating for the communities that experienced these tragedies, as well as for our country. In each case clear and imediate actrions were not taken in time to avert tragedy. I would also not that in many of those cases people excused their inaction with the statement that they just thought "boys would be boys." As parents our duty is to protect our children. As adults it is our duty to stop and correct problem behavior wherever we see it. And ultimately, as scouters it is our duty to ask boys to aspire to greatness.

OK, here's my stab at a pulitzer: 1) Coffee = good 2) Bug juice = good tradition/bad for your body 3) Soda = good for camp funding/bad for boys (and other living things) 4) Cigarettes and Tobacco products = really bad and the only thing discussed (with the exception of packsaddle's other pot) that really is not allowed at scout reservations, events, and activities. Sorry folks, nobody preaches like the converted!

Wow; I see two issues, lots of dedicated scouters asking you not to quite 5 seconds before the miracle happens, and significant dissapointment on your part. For my part, based on my experience with my girl scout daughters and cub scout son I have to suggest a few things. 1) Stick out one year, it's not long in the scope of things and you will teach your daughter a valuable lesson in perseverance through a committment. 2) continue to take a leadership role. 3) help make the meetings different than a play date so the girls see the difference: use an opening and closing ceremony, songs, chants, whatever it takes. 4) Finally follow their lead: if they want to run around, let them! not all girls are suited for "lapwork" or crafts, some love to run around and play. Organize that activity into meaningful gameplay. After a year is over, discuss with your daughter whether or not she would like to commit to another year. If she doesn't, and you have followed the sage advise of the other posters, you will know for certain that you've given it a fair shake.

I ended up reading through this thread after I finished looking for information on GSUSA Cadette aged girls. I am a Cub Scout leader, and was in Cub, Webelos, and Boy Scouts as a youth. My wife is a Girl Scout leader and was a Girl Scout in her youth. All three of our children are scouts. My daughters have just completed their bronze awards and are moving up to what used to be a cadette level troop, but according to the GSUSA website, will only be called studio 2B now, not just an alternate program, but the entire program for girls over 11 according to GSUSA. Frankly, I'm horrified at the direction that GSUSA has taken. I truly believe that this program will prove to be the largest programmatic mistake that GSUSA has ever made. Girls do not need charms for their bracelets, they need to develop leadership skills and character. You don't develop self-esteem by talking about... self esteem, you build a history of esteemable acts. Is the gold award really going to be the gold award CHARM? I am saddened that my daughters and their friends will not be able to advance through cadettes and then seniors if this madness continues. Leadership is what maintains a good program. Develop leadership and you will continue to reinvigorate the program. My Wife's friend Karen, for example, is just ending her leadership of a Troop. The Troop is ending because the girls are graduating High School. They have been together since brownies. A full Decade of scouting for these girls. No charms, just excellent leadership, accomplishment and adventure. They recently took a trip out west to see Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon as a Troop. They've been white water rafting, rock climbing, kayaking, backpacking and mountain biking. Yes, they've done their nails too, but usually while winter camping or sleeping aboard an aircraft carrier! They are the strongest, brightest and best of their age in our town, and, they did not get one single bracelet charm becoming that way. Karen's girls have extraordinary self-esteem, but they did not get it by being told to have it. They developed it and grew and grew and grew. Can a program based on peers "hanging out" really deliver this sort of character development? I really do not think it can. I was glad to see so many people greeting this change with similar opinions to mine. I agree with some of the previous respondents that it could be a very good program for nontraditional girl scout units. I do not believe that this change is in the best interests of either GSUSA or the girls currently enrolled in the program as a whole however. They will lose membership to BSA's coed Venturing program as Girls and their parents seek adventure and character development, over expensive and sparkly fluff.