mdsummer45

Okay, my son just told me he received an email stating the BOR will be next week. As I said in my posting these are my questions and not my sons. You all are my resources for scout info, I have no one else to turn to that is why I ask the questions. I appreciate all your replies.

Have a quick question...at the district level BOR should my son expect to "defend" himself in regard to the accusations the SM and the Troop Committee have made against my son...or...does this group just look at the cold facts...has he met the requirements for Eagle based on what is listed on the Eagle application. How will they get around the fact that the SM refused to give my son a SM conference(can a SM from another troop who is on this BOR fulfill that requirement?) I think we will have a BOR before the end of next week and I just want to give my son some insight as to what he should expect. I tell him that I think this group will question him about his feelings about scouting, what he has learned , what he has enjoyed, how he has implemented scout ideals in his daily life, and for him to expect to talk about his Eagle service project..Am I on the right tract?

Me thinks me needs to look over my shoulder..there are spies amongst us. The water is no longer safe. That said...things are moving along and my son is waiting for a date, time and place for his BOR. Will keep you all posted. Again thanks to all for your help!

And therein lies my possible concern...the SM has refused to give my son a SM conference and will not sign off on the Eagle Application. Therefore #6 has not been completed (although my son has written his goals and ambition statement and that statement has been forwarded to the DAC).

Yes, that is how I feel. The DD keeps telling me to tell everyone that we are in a time crunch. I think we are fine. The DC told me not to worry about my son turning 18 in a couple of weeks. The DC said the EBOR can be held up to 3mos after the 18th bday. Hopefully we will hear from them early next week.

Still waiting. Son spoke with DAC on the 20th, was told that DAC was waiting for a couple of LOR's(they were given a deadline of the 24th) and he needed my son to send in blue cards,he did that. On the 27th son called DAC left message and never received a call back. On the 29th I called and spoke with DAC's wife and was told DAC was in the hospital with pneumonia (the DAC is in his 80's). I then called DD on the 29th & 30th and when I spoke to him yesterday the DD told me that someone else will be stepping in for the DAC (the DC). I called the DC yesterday and he told me that he was going to pickup all the info for my son and other scouts who are having issues and that he would get back to us next week after he had a chance to review everything this weekend. I am keeping good notes as to who we talk to and when we talk to them. So..still waiting.

In this troop the Eagle advisor has always been the one to sign on the line for SM/Coach/Advisor...he even signs the DAR's initials on the line for the DAR. To my knowledge, this is done for all of the scouts in this troop who are working on their Eagle project. Is this troop making up their own rules? Different places, different rules??

HICO_Eagle: Just to clarify...the SM, by his own choice, does not have a yes or no vote when approving an Eagle project but does sit on the committee who reviews the scouts project prior to approval. The SM participates and expresses his opinions regarding the project, but does not have a vote when it comes to the actual project approval. After a minor tweak, My son received unanimous approval by this committee for his eagle project. The CC does vote and his signature is on the paperwork approving the start of the project. The troop has an Eagle advisor who signs as the troop representative.

Thank you CalicoPenn My son is not viewing this as a slam dunk by any means (nor am I)...I wish I had the time to relay the content of the conversations I have had with the DD....he is quite concerned by the tone and content of the letters the SM has sent my son and presented at the special committee meeting. The DD is concerned as to how the SM views his position as SM. It is so difficult to present everything on this forum. Both my son and I were shocked that the DAC wanted nothing more that the cards and rank verification and LORs...obviously there has been much talk behind the scenes about this ...There are so many stories I could tell and maybe one day I will relay some to you all about tahis troop...Also just want you all to know that Son #2 came home last night and told me that he was running for ASPL....WHAT!?!?!?...all of his friends wanted him to run. Only one other scout is running so Son#2 says I guess this will be a good test as to how the Troop leaders are going to treat him. He knows the potential hornets nest he may be entering....I give the kid alot of credit.

Good thing I can laugh at myself....yesterday I was so worried about the proper wording of my sons appeal....my son just got off the phone with the DAC and was told that all the DAC had everything he needed except a copy of the merit badge blue cards(front and back) proof of advancement for 1st class, star and life and the remaining LORs. The DAC said that as soon as he had all of those things he would call my son and schedule a Board of Review at the District level. WOW so easy. My question is this a BOR to recommend a EBOR? Or is this the EBOR? Not clear on that ..any thoughts?

TwoCubDad As I said my profession requires me to pay attention to detail....potentially serious consequences if I don't. Lisabob Only two left and he will still value their friendship even though they did not support him. The other committee members who were in attendance do not even come to the troop meetings or go on any of the outings, their sons have been gone for at least a year or two and in some cases 4+ years.

B We are behind him 110% no matter what he decides. As I have said in earlier posts. If it was my decision he would have quit scouts along time ago. I know my son and I have a pretty good idea of what he is going to want to do. That is the reason I am gathering information so that he can follow the proper procedure.

B He plans to follow this though to the end. I don't feel that he can control how other people view his Eagle award, that is their decision to have what ever view they chose. He has done everything the rank requires that has been in his control. The others are subjective and left up to interpretation. I guess that is why there is an appeals process. His friends will still be his friends and I guess we shall see what type of character they demonstrate. If they judge his Eagle to be of lesser quality, doesn't that speak to their character..and will they be demonstrating Scout Spirit????

Oh one more thing....when this is all over and we are planning my sons Court of Honor. I am going to need all of your addresses as you have been the true leaders in this process. You are the ones who I wish could present him with his Eagle advancement. Again, I thank you.

hum..eight words? I am appealing the decision of my SM and the troop committee not to recommend me for an Eagle BOR by refusing to sign my Eagle Rank application. That simple?

okay... appealing the decision not to conduct a SM conference as stated in Requirement 6 on the Eagle application. (Boxes in handbook still do not matter) He is asking for a SM conference at the District level and a review of his Eagle requirements and approval of those requirements at the District level and he is also requesting an EBOR should the District committee find in favor of his appeal. Since he will be turn 18 in 4 weeks he is also requesting any extension of time past his 18th birthday that may be required in order to complete the appeal process at the District level. Yes? *************** my profession requires me to be very attentive to details(could ya tell) that is why my brain works the way it does..details, details, details....lol

okay... appealing the decision not to endorse his application for Eagle by refusing to sign the Eagle application. (Boxes in the Handbook do not matter.) He is asking for a review of his Eagle requirements and approval of those requirements at the District level and he is also requesting an EBOR should the District committee find in favor of his appeal. Since he will be turn 18 in 4 weeks he is also requesting any extension of time past his 18th birthday that may be required in order to complete the appeal process at the District level. Correct?

Clarification please....this is an excerpt from the letter he received from the CC: "That meeting was held at your request to appeal to the troop committee a decision made by Scoutmaster X to not sign off on Eagle requirement # 2 - Demonstrate Scout Spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life and Eagle requirement # 6 - Take part in a Scoutmaster Conference. The meeting was called for the purpose of deciding whether or not the committee should overturn the Scoutmaster's decision, recommend you for the Eagle rank, and approve the scheduling of an Eagle Board of review." Okay so isn't he also appealing the decision of the SM and CC decision not the sign the Eagle application (under Unit Approval) and their decision not to recommend him for an Eagle BOR? Not just the SM refusal to conduct a SM conference? *********** okay after we get the phrasing correct as to what exactly he is appealing...his letter to the DAC should NOT give a rebuttal to the points in the CC letter rather acknowledge and that the events happened(my side note here: even if the events were presented in a non factual way by the SM my son should not attempt to correct the facts...he should say something like ...'I have made mistakes in the past, especially in my early years in Boy Scouts, I have learned a valuable lesson from each experience and those experiences and lessons have helped me grow into the person who I am today.'(This message has been edited by mdsummer45)

John in KC I would like your permission to allow my son to use some of your phrasing as he writes his letter for appeal. I am way too close to this to be objective any longer..I need a clear head to guide my son and not the one of his mother who wants to give a a piece of her mind(nice words for posting purposes only) to each of these men...lol. I will tell him not to mention how he thinks he has earn the rank(that was the clause you were referring to.. correct). Or was it the last sentence " Therefore I am requesting a hearing at the District level to support my application for the rank of Eagle and seek support at the District level for an Eagle Board of Review" I will tell him to let his word (examples) relay how he has earned the rank. Right??? ************* Thanks for all the hand holding, I just don't know how to advise my son anymore and appreciate all the help I am receiving. From my heart!! (This message has been edited by mdsummer45)

Question here: I am sure that my son will need to put in writing that his wants to start the appeals process. What does he say: I am appealing the decision of my SM and and my troop committee not to support my application for the rank of Eagle. I feel that I have earned the rank of Eagle as I have completed the following requirements which are listed the my Scout Handbook: #1,#3,#4,#5(although have all of the necessary signatures(initial approval to begin and completion) for this requirement my SM has refused to sign off my scout book for this requirement.) My SM has told me that he will not sign off on Requirement #2 and has also refused to give me a SM conference (Requirement #6). I appealed the SM decision and requested a meeting with the troop committee to appeal the SM decision. The troop committee has denied my appeal and will not recommend me for an Eagle Board of Review. Therefore I am requesting a hearing at the District level to support my application for the rank of Eagle and seek support at the District level for an Eagle Board of Review. The ACP&P states on page 33 "shall set forth is detail the reasons for requesting an appeal." Should he leave out the part that says he feels that he has "earned the rank of Eagle as I have " Does he need to say anymore in his request other than what I have stated above? If so, I need your guidance. Thanks

Actually, Son #2 will be going to Philmont this summer and has recently had his BOR for Star (about 2 weeks ago). I think they are going to be walking very carefully with this boy. BUT, I hear your thoughts and I am going to document everything for him and keep an eye on things. What is that saying...keep you friends close but keep your enemies closer. That is exactly what I plan to do.

I've done my best to relay all of the my sons situation in a honest manner...is he the best scout..no, he did slack off and have very spotty attendance during his junior yrs of school, he's acknowledged that and tried to explain why...I guess that is his downfall he wants to explain why this happened..they see that as him justifying his actions, I see it as acknowledgment and explanation for the behavior..explaining does not mean lack of accepting responsibility, at least in my book it doesn't. In scouts if you are accused of something and the facts are not correct are you just supposed to yes Yes Sir and leave the fact inaccurate? Is the Scout the one who is always wrong? They can never question or challenge the accusation least it be see as not being obedient and not taking responsibility for their actions? They even had the nerve to state " My Son seems to feel that he "deserves" the Eagle rank, not that he has "earned" the rank of Eagle" Well, I was sitting right there and I do not remember my son saying that at all..quite the contrary..someone asked my son why he wanted the eagle rank and my sons words were "I feel have completed all of the requirement for the Eagle scout and I feel that I have done everything to earn that rank".Guess they didn't hear that.

Thank you for your comments...what bothers me is the low road the SM took by using his owns son's Facebook page to spy on my son. The only way anyone can see what you have posted on your Facebook is for the owner of the Facebook page to befriend a person. Everyone can not see what you have posted on your page, only people you invite. The SM used his own son to justify his feelings/decision. That is really sad. Everything was presented in such a vague way, they were only reacting to how my son acted 3-4 years ago. The SM was never present at any of the "incidents" that he addressed in his letter and with the exception of the meeting that took place over 2yrs regarding my sons failed first eagle project(which by my sons own admission was caused by poor communication) none of the committee members were first hand witnesses to any of the other "incidents". I guess it is human nature to see what you want to see and hear what you and to hear. My feeling is that this group has decided to perceive my son in a certain way, and no matter what he did, it was never going to be right, good enough or proper. What's done is done, and I expect no additional help from this group as my son travels the road to his EBOR. I know I can count on all of you to help guide my son through the maze of paperwork and such. We appreciate your help. My 2nd son REFUSES to leave this group...his friends are there, he doesn't even know if he wants to become an Eagle. He is only in 9th grade and a Star scout...I feel I have to let him make the decision..After the dust settles with my older son I plan on contacting the committee and express an interest in becoming a committee member...wonder how they will handle that request.

Well, the letter from the Troop committee was emailed to my son at 11:45p last night. My son left his email open for me to check for the letter. As expected, the committee is supporting the SM. Based on the tone and content of the letter I feel that I was at a totally different meeting. But at this point it really does not matter. He will be appealing the decision immediately...my question is should I wait until Monday or call the DAC later today(Sunday). Also the letter stated they were forwarding a copy of the letter, and his Eagle application and Goals and Ambition statement to the DAC...how about his Eagle Service project book...shouldn't they forward that to the DAC also..or is that our responsibility. Do I need to make a copy of the entire book including all the pictures or is that necessary? Also, I thought that I read somewhere that at the appeal levels above the troop/unit level the scout is given the benefit of the doubt. Did i read that somewhere or did I just make that up. I'm so confused right now...

NeiLup Point taken and recieved. What I have failed to mention is that my son left this morning for a school trip and will not be home until early next week. The committee members are aware of this, therefore I was suggesting to him to wait until he receives their decision and then follow up with a Thank you (either way good or bad). He will have very limited access to his email account and therefore it is not feisable for him to send out Thank you emails until Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. Hopefully he will have heard something by then.