bacchus

Anybody have any positive experiences with LDS Committees? I have rarely seen a functioning LDS Committee, but at times (like now) see one very strong. What do you other LDS guys expect from the role of a committee? I would expect the Cubs Committee to be separate from the Scout Committee. However, there are in theory three scout committees - Troop, Team, and Crew. I can see the benefits of having the 3 scout committees being a committee of the whole (entirely same membership), or having 3 separate committees if the manpower was available for it (not likely though). Having a single committee seems like it would help the 3 units work together a little better.

I doubt any of my Crew will begin dating each other.

Thank you everybody. This discussion was very helpful.

Thank you, rkfrance. I've reviewed that and it was helpful, but appears to be specific to a certain Stake. Regardless, it's good information to draw from. My question really regards what I will call a "myth" until proven otherwise - that LDS units need to have LDS-appointed Commissioners. A troop is a troop, whether the youth are 11-13 or 11-17, so unless somebody has some guidelines to back the myth, I'm going to be recommending some changes here in my local units. After all, a non-LDS Commissioner is better than no Commissioner at all. Sure, there is some special knowledge about how scouting relates to the AP Quorums, but that does not change the scouting program itself. Anybody able to refute the myth? Gary?

LDS guys, Can you give me the publication info that discusses LDS Commissioners?

Great comments. SSS, great examples. Now why is it that people assume that a parent is a helicopter parent first, until proven otherwise? I've seen it on this board a few times. For example in jet526's thread, I didn't notice that the boys' father was involved more than anything peripheral, but others posted that he was a helicopter parent?

Eagle92: "yep 3 is the MINIMUM number of camping trips. My advice, when in doubt, bring it up with the District Advancement chair." Eagle, I agree the number is a minimum. However, going over the unit's head to the District might be starting something you don't want to start...

I'm like Beav in the sense I don't think we need to be attacking the Catholics for their beliefs. To you who think the Catholics oppress women, I guess the fact the women still attend suggests otherwise. Gern: "Beav, where is your outrage towards those using their religious teachings to denigrate homosexuals. Isn't that also religious intolerance?" Is there really a religious organization that worships homosexuality?

I need a little help figuring this out. It seems to me that everybody assumes a parent who posts on this board, a parent who talks to the SM, a parent who makes sure the MB info gets turned in to council, or a parent who drives his kid to his scout meetings is a Helicopter Parent. I'm at a loss, so somebody please explain it to me. I have my own son in scout troop. I am the venturing adviser so intentionally keep away from troop activities to avoid the appearance of helicoptering. The assumption is still there that if I even mention him, I'm helicoptering. I do more for other youth to keep their MBs and advancements recorded, than for my own son. When he needs to work on something with his SM, I coach him in advance and let him do it so he gets the adult association, like I have done with other scouts who I can see need to talk to the SM about something. But then the SM comes to me and assumes I somehow "put him up to it" regardless of what "it" is. Is scouting intended to sabotage our relationships with our own children?

Eagle92: "I think the main challenge is that lack of communication on the father's part, as well as him being a "helicopter parent." The scouts should have mentioned the situation to Jet, not the dad. the scouts should be responsible for keeping track of their advancement, not dad..." I don't even know where to start on this. If you wait for the youth to keep their paperwork in order and the adults don't get involved, you are going to have a major mess on the day before his 18th birthday when he wants his EBOR. And where do you get the helicopter parent thing from? I guess it's implied by the lack of information of how all these activities were completed over a 9-week period, that the father must have done it all for the boys, but jet526 needs to tell us that's the case before we just assume. A father keeping records, and talking to other adults about the records coming is not helicoptering. I do agree that the 2 youth should have mentioned it to the adult leader, but I would expect the actual follow up to be done by an adult. "And the scouts should have arranged some type of communication with both sets of SMs." Huh? Am I being picky here? I wouldn't expect a couple 11-12 year olds to be calling adults on the phone to arrange communications between them. I understand the adult association method, but expecting two new, young scouts to be assistant scoutmasters doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Eventually they will get there.

Beavah: "As a canoeing MBC, I confess I'm baffled by baccus's claim that it's a two hour badge. It may well be that da expectations where he's at are vastly different than da rest of us, which might be why da original poster is struggling. The thought that a new first year scout would finish Canoeing MB in 4 hours, let alone 2, I find laughably tragic. If the same low bar is being set for other badges and advancement, I expect many if not most units would have a problem with it." Maybe I better get my facts right before I comment as I'm not a canoeing MBC. I know the boys go to Summer Camp and earn canoeing in the week they are there. Maybe they spend 2 hours a day instead of 1. I know the females from our Venturing who were going to go on a river trip went by the camp and spent a morning getting trained up on 'basically' the same stuff the boys learn when they earn their MB. One of the trainers made a comment that they spend about twice as much time on the boys as they really need to. I didn't get into a detailed conversation about it. Regardless, it doesn't seem that inconceivable that a young boy would spend a week at camp and while there do the canoeing MB in the morning, and then in the afternoon do the T21 requirements. Look, if you don't want the boys to receive their advancements so soon just tell them to find another Troop. I still don't know where the attitude comes that boys need to hold off advancement until a certain age - it's not one of the requirements in the old book. Maybe I should get the new book. As to Troop Hopping for the Summer? I haven't seen much of it. Maybe it's people going to visit with a cousin for a week since he's going to camp? No idea...

Yes, definitely drop the LDS part of your argument, it's pretty inflammatory to us LDS guys trying to do things the right way. By the way, we had a 10 year old scout transfer to our unit from a non-LDS unit that had advanced him all the way to 1st Class, and didn't turn in the paperwork to council. Does that raise any red flags? However, I don't fault all non-LDS units for this issue. Interestingly, once we got that back under control with retraining and rechecking, he transferred back to the old troop.

Let me try to restate your issue to see if I have it right: Two scouts spent 4 Summer months in another scouting unit. During that 4 month period, they went to camp and 1) participated in the "pioneer" course, or whatever it is called to earn all their requirements all the way to 1st Class; 2) they earned the 4 historical merit badges that will only be available during 8 months of 2010; and 3) they earned canoeing. First of all, the Summer is when most activity occurs for scouting. If you are going to have a burst of earning anything, it would probably be in the Summer. Summer Camp is a week, and I know in my (mostly non-LDS) council one of the courses is designed to train the younger scouts all the material up to 1st class. Second, canoeing is 1 hour a day for 5 days. And that is double what it needs to be - I know this because the camp did our Venturers a favor and ran the females through the merit badge training for canoeing and it was 1 day, about 2.5 hours. Third, you realize the historical merit badges are only available until Dec. 31 this year right? Have you looked at the requirements? I know a couple of them can be done in 2-4 hours. My (again, mostly non-LDS) council is going to be offering them at a 1-day merit badge workshop later this Fall. So if you want the name of my council to avoid any transfers from here, please let me know.

The original question, "So, the question here is, what information would it take to change your mind that Homosexuality is/is not deviant/unnatural/wrong, whatever your view is" At the risk of being accused of being close-minded, I'm at least going to be intellectually and morally honest. Moral standards don't change. This isn't a question of being progressive, politically correct, acceptance, or any other sort of semantics; it's about morality. Some of you mentioned close gay friends. I have a few close gay friends too and don't hassle them. That isn't my place. I suspect I have some gay friends that I didn't even know were gay. Regardless, moral standards are not something that we just change when we feel like it. Morality for the most part goes back to religious beliefs that have been around for millennia, and is based on commandments from God. To say that He changed His mind is tantamount to blaspheme. "Now, this is not another avenue to argue the morality of Homosexuality...." I apologize for discussing the morality, but the way you couch your argument is making the implication that homosexuality is moral and we just need to accept it - so ironically you are making the very argument you want us not to make. Please do not take offense OldGreyEagle, none is intended.

No suggestions as I'm new to DO myself, but that sounds like a super EDGE presentation.

"he's one of those rare folks who puts country before politics, and wants whats best for the USA. It seems as if almost all who go to DC, irregardless of political party, try to do things to stay in power, despite what consequences to the country." Very well put. One of my pet peeves about politicians.

I've submitted forms for the council-level VLA to our DE over Venturing. She doesn't know how to submit this for final approval. Does anybody know the next step? Is there another form that needs to be submitted to National?

I think you mean Ford, the only president who was an Eagle himself.

I would think an Eagle certificate from a 1-term president would be more valuable than one from a 2-term president, just due to the fewer number of them...

Yeah Sherm, I was about to check Snopes myself until I saw NJCub's response. We see these hoaxes all the time. Although it does say a bit about peoples' predisposition to believe that if Beck said something that it must be some form of quackery. Clearly, that's Rush Limbaugh's job.

Considering Nondenominational usually translates to be Protestant Christian, that excludes it in my mind as the recommended route. Interfaith services is the term we use that tries to be inclusive of all beliefs. In my training I was told there were two ways to have a true interfaith service. 1) Have some type of service that celebrates all, but establishes none, of many services; or 2) have a single belief's service and invite everybody to attend. Note that in number 2, it is supposed to be a belief that is held by a very small amount of scouts present, or even held by none at all - don't ask me why. Having the interfaith "mixed" service (my number 1 above) is very vanilla and weak - I don't like it. In fact I think many times it asks the congregants to participate in ways they do not think is appropriate. I would absolutely love to attend the services of another (my number 2 above) and support them as well as see how they worship.(This message has been edited by bacchus)

Congratulations and good luck in you endeavors!

"* What is Venturing (including crews specializing, uniform, etc) * Crew operations (how crew is organized) * Venturing advancement (plus how Venturers can earn Eagle) * Venturing training (youth & adult)" I'm about to teach this so appreciate the comments. I will especially talk about the Methods, and how they differ from the Scouts'.

Our Venturing is somewhat of a separate "District" and we are trying to establish some traditions. What do you think about an annual presentation of the Venturing Leadership Awards? I'm envisioning something similar to the annual District Award of Merit presentation, but using the VLA instead. There seems to be a similar number of VLA authorized each year as the DAM, thus my thought process on this. What do your councils and districts do differently?

Oh, and Pathfinding. Tracking is the new name for the merit badge formerly known as Stalking .