bacchus

Congrats!

Congrats! Hoot...

Once again the old argument: Check off requirements the first time they're done vs. when the requirement is mastered to the point that they can provide training on the subject in a college level course in a large auditorium. My fellow leaders have come to the decision that when the scouts complete the requirement they get it signed off. We will then continue to have the scouts perform the requirement, and re-teach to the younger scouts many times after that.

SP, Am I somehow reading that backward?

Abel, Isn't that the Youth Protection standard? Peregrin, I agree with your sentiment regarding Abel's friend and her troop. Shortridge, The religious instruction from scouting for the most part is applying the scout oath and law in the boys' lives. In addition, the boys learn to work with peers in their quorum, or 2-year age range (12-13, 14-15, 16+); much like team-building for that smaller group. Note that they also get some religious instruction in the Duty To God program, which is separate from the scouts but applies to the same age group 12+ (or the Faith in God program for Cubs and 11-year-old scouts).

Shortridge, I was told by a church leader to seek out the best scoutmaster available, whether church member or not. At one time we had a Catholic serving in scouts and he was a great example and leader for the youth. I think we have a couple guys on this forum that fit into that category too. A non-member training boys to be good future priesthood holders, or rather to grow up as Christian men, is not really that much of a stretch. I run into good Christian scouters all the time. I think it surprises both the church members and the non-members that there is so much common ground once they get to know each other.

DeanRX: "As a lawyer, you have to see the irony of a "private" organization that allows for one set of adjusted standards (LDS units), yet refuses to allow for an opposing set of standards in the same manner. All the while seeking (and getting) both public and private donations to fund its activities" It sounds like you are proposing allowing one set of adjusted standards (practicing gays and atheists), yet refusing to allow for an opposing set of standards in the same manner. All the while seeking (and getting) both public and private donations (including the bulk of the donations from LDS) to fund its activities.

OGE, I'm not sure, just have to say my piece so as to dispel the myths.

Moose, our Ward was like that just a few short years ago. One guy made an effort to get some guys trained, and we had 6 fully-trained scouters at the next WB. We've become the flagship scouting program among the LDS units in our Stake. I hope your group turns their program into something like that.

Moose: "3) Although some LDS units are well run, many are not.. This never would even get the boy a chance to get over the fact it is manditory by discovering that it is a fun program. Adults [find a] way to suck all the fun out of the program. That goes for poorly run non-LDS units as well as LDS units, thing is with non-LDS the boys have the right to vote with their feet.." I pretty much agree with a caveat. When the LDS boys would have voted with their feet, they end up leaving scouts. It's not good either way. Really the only good way to avoid this is to keep the OUTing in Scouting. And if you have a reduced scouting attendance, something needs to change.

From another thread: "LDS rarely does go to roundtables or camporees. They choose to group all their units together and go to summer camp as a block, and just take the camp over for a week so they aren't with other types of units.. They really don't even want to do training with other types of units.. Then they do have their own different ways of running the program.. If it happened I don't think the LDS or the rest of the units would notice any difference at all.." The units in my Ward go to roundtables. We attend camporees when there are no scheduling conflicts, but then leave Saturday night. My personal feeling is that if scouts or units leave an activity early they should perform some service so they don't appear to be skipping out on the cleanup. We recently attended another council's LDS week at Summer camp just to see what it was like. It was almost just another camp, but had just a couple local Stake leaders present to add some LDS flavor. I will note that the purpose wasn't to get away from other non-LDS units, but rather to be around other LDS units. There is a difference. Most years we just go to our regular council camp and are almost blended in, other than some of the Varsity scouts with Orange tabs. By the way, at the LDS week camp we went to, there were a couple non-LDS troops. I couldn't tell which ones they were, nor did I really care. Training with other units is great. The larger problem is so much of the training is done on Sunday, and we try to avoid that. For some reason there is resistance for LDS leaders to provide the same training on a non-Sunday. I suspect the reason for resisting that is other leaders would rather attend non-Sunday training and it would reduce the Sunday-training population. I guess we do have our own way of running the program. It's not outside the rules though. We have a scout troop for those boys 11-13 (these are acceptable ages for BSA in non-LDS units as well), a varsity team for those boys 14-15 (14 is the minimum age for non-LDS Varsity), and Venturing for those boys 16-20 (minimum age for non-LDS is 14, or 13 and completed 8th grade). There are some boys who are still in youth programs while a senior in high school but are 18. They can't stay in the troop as a youth member due to age restrictions, so it's a good thing there is a Venturing Crew for them. Most of the time when boys move to another unit due to age, they are dual-enrolled with the troop. Many times the scouts in my Ward turn into what appears to be a single troop and the other "units" appear like patrols, so the difference there is really semantics. Unless of course you come from the group that believes each patrol should be mixed with all ages.

In other words, if somebody in the Church hierarchy said 17 years ago that the Church would drop scouting in a certain scenario, that doesn't necessarily take a "revelation" to change the stance. I'm not saying it would happen.

From another thread: "It's possible they might have a new revelation on the issue 17 years later, but I doubt it." I don't think scouting policies in the LDS Church are at the level of "revelation" you imply.

From another thread, "So no female scout leaders in LDS packs or troops." The reality: LDS Packs have many female scouters in them at all levels, Den, Pack, Cmte. Chair, Commissioner, RT Commissioner. LDS Troops "Women do not serve as leaders for young men of Aaronic Priesthood age [12+ years old] but may chair or serve on Scouting committees." 11-year-olds [New Scout Patrol] "Women leaders do not participate in overnight camping with these boys." But women are sometimes asked to be the leader. In cases where the 11-year-olds have a woman leader, a qualified male adult is invited to accompany them when they go camping, instead of her. Another interesting note: "Worthy adults, whether members of the Church or not, may be called to serve as Scouting leaders." Brackets are mine. Feel free to comment on this rather than the myths from another thread.

I haven't seen so much intolerance and spreading of myth in a while. All in one thread too! Reading through these I really see that there is need for some education and training. I'll try to bring up some topics in other threads; this one is just a bit too nasty right now.