MattR

You don't think everyone doesn't already tell them what's about to happen? Tell them all you want, make charts and graphs and all sorts of wonderful aides, and it won't make a difference. A lot of scouts have to learn the hard way. This is likely the first time they've ever had to figure out a schedule so they really don't understand what it means to fall behind. Think of it this way, once they go through this they will better understand the next time, which will likely be much more expensive if they're late. The best quote I heard related to this: A project becomes months or even years late one day at a time.

Hmmm, all I knew was our patrols were week. I had no idea how to change that or what it might look like. The adults were happy doing a lot for the boys so it didn't help. The SM handbook was a complete bust. My commissioner was of no help either. Not that he was bad, just that he didn't know. Interestingly enough, there were two adults that also wanted to make the patrols stronger, but they didn't know how to say that. Simply put, we were all clueless. @@blw2, I might have been in the same place as you. My patrols would cook on their own, but that was it. I think the biggest challenge is convincing the scouts they can do more on their own. Giving them fewer choices seems to help. Multiple choice is much easier than free form. Another challenge that seems to be getting harder is separating the boys that want a challenge from the naysayers. One scout can easily convince 5 sitting on the fence that the challenge is too hard. That's my frustration now.

@blw2: Yep. The training is fine as an introduction for someone that knows nothing about scouts. It would be much better if there was a follow on course related to the things you mention. Focusing on the patrol method for a whole day and how to transform a troop to using it would be great. That's what I was looking for and never found it. Philmont might have something useful but that's not practical.

My point was that if there's enough snow to go snow shoeing then there's enough snow to call it snow camping and too much for most scouts to do anything else on that list. So I'd say their definition of snow camping is that there's enough to need snow shoes when you go for a hike. I don't think they're interested in extreme weather as they just want scouts to try something other than what they're used to. They picked water, snow, biking, and mountains. Camp and enjoy one of those. That's the choice. This is a requirement where the scouts have to do something as opposed to describe, explain, or discuss. I like it.

This is why I preferred the space ship, wind up the prop, let it fly, watch it crash, rebuild it, and repeat event. It was all for the boys and they enjoyed it because they got to do it over and over and over. It was pure fun. The pinewood derby will always bring out the worst in adults. I saw it nearly 20 years ago with parents using CNC machines to hollow out the wheels so I don't think it has changed. Fortunately it's just the pinewood derby. It sort of reminded me of the win all you can game at wood badge.

It's all relative. The goal is to try something different. Look at the list and notice that you have to do two things and, if you don't have a mountain nearby, nothing else matches going snow shoeing or skiing. The list really is do one of go on the water, go biking, go in the mountains, or go in the snow.

I think the Constitution is beautifully written. It's all cursive. I write in cursive because it's easier on my hands. Printing is carpal tunnel just waiting to happen with my hand going up and down so much. It is slower and requires more concentration, but it helps me think before I write.

Hi @@Ryota, The morse code idea is clever. Do you have a set of English words? Lemonade I know, Pertolangan I can't even guess.

sorry, but no. I guess that's what the :'s are for. Good luck.

... when a father, who knew he was going to die from ALS, asked that our troop be a part of his memorial service. ... when a scout told me that although he loved his father very much, he was very thankful for the adults in the troop. ... when my son, at age 20, told me "now I get it" (so jjlash, you were doing well to get a response at 17) ... when I see scouts having honest, pure, fun, without a care in the world. ... when a parent told me he has two sons, one in scouts and one not, and the one in scouts is a much more well rounded person. ... when I see an older scout telling stories or leading games or teaching skills to younger scouts that look up to him in awe. ... when a friend, after he saw the scouts working on an eagle project for his church, came up to me and said he was going to put his son in scouts. ... when a scout does something completely selfless because it was the right thing to do, without any prompting. ... when a scout comes up to me a few years after he leaves the troop and says hi and is polite about reminding me what his name is. ... most Saturday nights on campouts, after everyone is asleep and I walk around enjoying the stars above and the warmth inside, knowing that I had some small part to do with a good campout. Yeah, it's all cheesy stuff. And I can't explain to anyone why it's important. All I know is that if I just keep plugging away someone will eventually do something good and I'll be all warm and sappy again.

In a situation like this where everything is getting out of hand and plans are failing left and right, stand back and remember you're not getting paid for this and it's all about the scouts. So, ignore the adults, what do the scouts need? As others have said, make it simple and put some really loud cheer or something in there to make it fun. In this case they should be recognized for completing cub scouts and joining a troop, and they should have fun doing it. They don't care about the content of the ceremony, only that there is one. I've gotten to the point that adults not helping out or doing what they said they'd do is just part of the job. The longer term issue is dealing with some of these adults in the future. I didn't quite follow who said what to whom but it sounds like there are big egos involved. That will grind you down over time. Take care of yourself and focus on the good moments, like when a scout comes up to you and says thank you.

Unfortunately, I have. I've asked for time for patrols and my troop at several camps. We've brought our own climbing gear only to be told we can't use it on camp property. Last year we went to a camp with what I thought was the best staff I've ever seen. The camp director didn't understand why I wanted to find time for patrols but when I talked to the camp counselors they thought it was great. They are told they must complete MBs but they'd much rather make MBs a by product of having fun. This camp does, however, have a separate camp that is patrol based and everything, including MBs is done by patrol. I'd like to go there in 2018.

I agree with most things you say except for this. At least at the camps I've been at most resources a fun activity might include are booked for merit badges. Rock climbing, shooting, anything on the water. Another problem is camps are getting away from letting scouts schedule their own merit badges. You tell them what merit badges you want and they tell you your schedule. So if you want your troop, or patrol better yet, free in the afternoons it's just luck of the draw. Next year we're going to a camp on a big lake that is all about water. The following week we're going backpacking. So, MBs only if the scouts want them along the way.

I thought this was nice. http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Refugee-youths-find-safe-haven-in-Boy-Scouts-of-America-409302415.html

Agreed Agreed. As to your math, NJ is right, don't design planes. But as to a metaphor describing people it's okay. Maybe a better version is everyone's glass is half full. Nobody's is full, nobody's is empty, but everyone's is half full. Look for the goodness and accept the problems. Not really related, but remember when Clinton, the Bill, said "It's the economy, stupid." Again, the BSA is pulled off its message. Well, I guess we don't know what its message is so any incident will do just that.

The idea of adding a 4th level, the patrol, is good. Grade each patrol and the troop score is based on that. The patrol method seems to hinge on whether the scouts look out for each other. I just don't know how to score that. Asking the patrols to come up with their own calendars seems to be the default but if they don't much care about the others, or just don't have much enthusiasm on their own, their calendars will be junk and then bad things happen. Anything that would help with this would be worth a lot. It doesn't need to be JTE-like.

Some random thoughts, because the family is around: What about something to encourage feedback within the patrol? Not sure how but it seems boys just stew over problems rather than bring them out. This might not be the place to teach it, but if there were a simple metric it might be useful to teach the scouts and the adults that the scouts can and should solve their problems rather than the adults. How about borrowing the troop membership metric and applying it to the patrol. Keep 6-8 members in your patrol. Actively recruit for your patrol. Many of the troop wide metrics might work at the patrol level and make more sense. Not all, but some. I also see scouts really struggle with planning. Teamwork in the moment they can easily grasp. Planning is an amazing challenge. Again, maybe this isn't the place but something simple might help. Again, the equivalent troop wide metric might translate well to a patrol level. Or maybe there should be a section for the adults to encourage them to do what they should do. Not sure what that should be.

It sure sounds like you're volunteering to write one up. Thank you. I look forward to seeing the first version. I'd use it not only to score my troop but also to teach my scouts and parents. One of the things the official one does is make it obvious to score. So, there isn't much subjectivity. If you could keep that it would be good. Starting with some subjective measurements might not be a bad way to start a discussion, though. Anyway, now is a good time to do this and you'd be great at making this happen. let us know what help you need. Thanks again for helping out with this.

What about it? I agree with Stosh, human dignity applies to everyone. And a corollary might be that dignity requires empathy.

+1 for qwazse. He helped a young man learn from his mistakes and from the mistakes of others -- a useful life skill. End of story.

Unfortunately, they laughed at this quote. Again, the image is that Boy Scouts are quaint. It seems that character is about as important as hair color.

Not sure about Bass in particular, but scouts that have gone to hardware big box stores all get the same bit of advice. Each store has a fixed amount of money they donate per month or fiscal quarter, so be there asking at the start of that period with an explicit list of needs. Good luck. It sounds exciting.

Humuhumunukunukuapua'a. I think it's a fish. The flag was rectangular but had an extension so the name could fit. In order to be in the patrol you had to be able to pronounce the name.

@@KevinRiner, since you are both a CM and tiger den leader you should be awarded more than a knot. What you're doing is wonderful and whatever recognition you'd like I hope you get. Staying the course does require some recognition so go for it and don't be shy. It may take many years until the boys you work with are mature enough to say thank you, but it's worth the wait. That is the best recognition. In the meantime I hope some parents will also thank you.

The scout is just as high minded as the board. They aren't asking him to do anything out of the ordinary. Know a knot, handle some paperwork, describe what he did. At the same time, telling a scout he'll never get Eagle is being a bit closed minded. He's a kid. Of course there's a mess. Whether or not the board will improve is of no interest, but the scout could learn from this. It sounds like the scout respects qwazse. Qwazse could talk to him. Just a guess but I'd say the scout got defensive when the board got pushy. That's the mess. Since the scout said he'd do those things for qwazse it sounds like he thinks he should know how to do those things. So the real issue is how to deal with people that you disagree with.