MattR

Assuming your son is also ADHD, this explains a lot. Not that it's good but now it all makes sense to me. If I'm wrong then please excuse my assumption. Either way, ask your son what he wants. The troop will not put their heart into it no matter what and that's what your son wants. Assuming he is ADHD then he likely poured his heart into getting eagle. Maybe he'd like to go up to the mountains with his friends, have a 10 minute ceremony, and then have a slide show of good memories and a picnic. After all this fuss it will be the best memory and in 10 years from now it will be that much better. That's all that matters, what does he think about it in 10 years from now. All the candles and symbolism doesn't mean as much as the memories of what he did. Celebrate that. Personally, I don't care for the pomp and ceremony. It's all about memories. The slide show is the best part. Start with with a fat cheeked tiger cub and end with a young man. When I started as SM, and I was asked to talk, I would talk about the meaning of Eagle and the obligation and all that. But I soon changed it to be about the scout. My trail to eagle talk was always about that scout's trail to eagle. I'd sit down and talk to him before and find out the best and the worst and then weave it into a story. There was always funny stuff and I always ended it with some serious stuff.

From the OA: Okay, then why not develop a process for improving the manner and consistency? This could be a win for scouts and native tribes. I wonder how many complaints they got compared to how many tribes are happy with what they see. They might have to ask about about who is happy.

I suspect a lot of scouts know exactly what is going on. The solution involves getting them to talk about it but the challenge is they are very hesitant to talk about it. If what happened to a scout was a shock, as in he can't even imagine it happening, then that scout will have a hard time talking about it. Giving them examples of what you've seen in life as a kid, in detail, might let them understand that it's okay to talk about it. You might find out that the older scout just doesn't realize how he comes across or you might find out nothing really happened, or you might find out this kid needs to go, be put on a short leash, or some such issue. Either way, the SM needs to make the final decision on that one. If something is happening and the adults know about it and let it go then they've lost all credibility. If there is something going on then the older scout needs to be confronted. If that scout understands that what he did was wrong then this can be a win for everyone. If the kid denies it under convincing evidence to the contrary, then the SM gets to earn his pay. It's one of those things that I did not like dealing with at all. But where the older scout sees the light it was good. Scouts made mistakes and learned from them.

@Matt_theLife_Scout02, welcome to the forum. I like your enthusiasm. It might be a bit rough around the edges but I wish you were in my troop. If I were still the SM I'd give you the keys. Anyway, there are certainly issues. Not having elections is a really big one. Unfortunately, that will be a hard one to solve right now. Maybe later. The current SPL is another problem. My guess is you can't change his attitude very easily. So, what's left? Well, the entire troop, for one. Please describe to us what the PLC thinks of all of this. Do they agree with you? Or are they just going with the flow? In all honesty, this is the first step in being a leader. Find out what the rest of the troop thinks and wants. A new question for you - what does the rest of the PLC think of all of this? Are they okay with it? Are they upset? It turns out that power does not belong to the one with the title, or patch in this case. Power belongs to the one that leads. It sounds like your current SPL does not lead. He does not show up. He is not interested. In all honesty there's a power vacuum. This is why the question of who is the ASPL was asked. He could lead. He could just act like the SPL. All the scouts would recognize his leadership and would follow him. Another question asked was what is your position. If you're the ASPL then there's a simple solution to all of this, start leading. If you're not then the current ASPL might need some coaching/mentoring. I wonder who might be able to do that. Any ideas? I have to add a caveat to all of this. This is not an ideal solution. Having someone with the title of leader and someone else leading may cause trouble. That's why, if you go this way, later on down the road you should talk to the SM and suggest having elections would be a good idea. I hope you write back to us.

Maybe the way to do it is to tell the parents you have the medicines, how you'd use them, and ask if any parents have a problem with it. Ibuprofen is a blood thinner so there are some people that can't take it.

@Mich08212, now that you bring it up, I won't pardon your language. Let's keep it scout appropriate. Thank you, The moderator team.

@Mich08212, I haven't read all the pages of this thread so please excuse me if I'm missing something. But a fair number of people have brought up the possibility that your son did not really have a BOR because it was past the 90 day limit past his 18th birthday and you haven't responded. I suspect you don't understand the process. If he really did have a BOR he should have gone through the following process. Filled out an eagle application that was signed by his SM at his eagle SM conference. From there it should have been given to the council registrar who would have checked that it is was all valid. From there it would have been given to his district eagle chair who would have been the same person that signed off on his eagle project. Anyway, that person would have been at his EBOR. At the end of his BOR he would have been given his application back with all the signatures of everyone on the BOR. The application would then go back to the registrar who would then send it to national. A few weeks later your son or the SM would receive a certificate and an eagle card (looks like a credit card). That is proof that your son is an eagle. A patch and a medal is not proof. Did any of this happen? I hate to say the issue is not about having an eagle COH, it's whether your son really had an eagle BOR. It might help if you can clarify some of these issues.

Sounds like my son. Very mellow. Was having fun. He was a year or so in and I sat down with him and showed him how easy it was to get things signed off. It was not on his radar. He was finally mature enough. He suddenly got two ranks at one COH. He still didn't get eagle until two months before his 18th birthday. What he enjoyed about scouts was the adventure and friendships. That has stuck with him. His dog has now been up more peaks over 14,000' than I have. I wouldn't tell him what to do. However, you could ask him what he wants to do in scouts and then support him. If he says he wants to advance then talk to him about that. But if he says he wants to go on next year's big adventure and needs to raise money, then help him with that. And if he says he just wants to have fun with his friends then maybe he'd be interested in having his patrol come over to shoot hoops in the driveway and eat ice cream.

The message I got from that article is that soccer numbers are dropping because parents are taking the fun out of it. Select soccer at 6? At 6 my kids met at the park and the coach was no more than the screw ball in chief. It's kind of like watching parents with kids skiing. Good ski instructors realize 6 year olds are as interested in hot chocolate and playing in the snow as actually skiing but the parents want their kids skiing the whole time. Message to scouters would be keep it fun. I just came back from talking to scouts, parents and staff at summer camp and the idea that summer camp could be more than advancement took a lot of effort to get across. They can't even imagine, at least in my council camp, that merit badges don't have to be the primary activities at camp that everything else has to be squeezed around. Troops/patrols don't do conservation projects, hikes, climbing, kayaking, shooting, or anything just for fun because the MB schedule keeps them split up for so much of the day. All of those activities are jammed into the evenings. It's about understanding that play has its own benefits. Anymore the only way for a kid to play is to use electronics. Maybe it's not the kids' fault. Fun with a purpose might also apply to other activities.

Welcome to the forum, @Keithami. Sounds like a mess to me. My view is you need to talk to some people higher up.

I thought that's what an F150 was for. Bu-bump.

@Eagledad and @CalicoPenn I think accountable is the wrong word. Supportive might be better. This program is about youth and we're the ones working with the youth. Support goes two ways. Maybe they should take Wood Badge and review a few things. The first is servant leadership. Another is the idea of a 360 degree review. The final one is the idea of having a clear vision of the program.

I believe all of this. There's one more aspect of this and that's money. I've seen volunteer organizations lose their way when it comes to money. BSA has high expenses so the core of the program is being ignored to solve the money issue. The focus has moved from quality program to high membership. Add in the fact that so many at national are far from the action and that so many parents see scouts as all about eagle and a reasonable solution is to push advancement. So FCFY, lions and tigers, STEM, silos of interest at national, and girls. In the mean time they've forgotten about the heart of the program. When Hillcourt was pulled out of retirement to fix things there were also silos but I suspect the money problem wasn't so bad. It would take some real leadership to fix things now. Servant leadership. Someone that could cut through the sclerosis at national. Does anyone know of someone at national we could invite to join us?

To answer your question, no. I don't know much about the TAY numbers. Are you saying that because there are double the available youth JTE expects the total number of youth participating should double? That's nuts. The best advice I have heard about JTE, from my new DE no less, is work on the program.

Welcome to the forum @Salmonking. Sounds like a great trip. I hope you stick around.

I tried the sad emoji but I don't want you to read it the wrong way. It's really sad that teachers are being assaulted.

Thank you for the correction. I looked around and also found that camps can fire cannons, they just have to do it correctly. I'm good with that. It sounds like there's a process for identifying safety issues. Just my guess, but is it identify cases where scouts and adults have been injured, figure out why, and then make suggestions on how to limit them? A question I have is what is the criteria for saying something is unsafe? Cannons exploding is understandable. Someone can die. But what about electric screwdrivers? The worsts thing I can imagine is someone stabs either themself or someone else with the bit of the screwdriver. I've never seen it but a few stitches isn't such a big deal, compared to what one can do with an axe. Now I think we're getting to the bottom of this. After all the time I've spent in scouting maybe I don't understand the program. What does BSA think the program is? My understanding of the program is that it's fun with a purpose. The purpose is learning how to make good decisions by letting the scouts make decisions. Maybe I'm wrong but the only way I see that 12 year olds using electric screwdrivers as not part of the program is by saying the program is limited to advancement. Scouts can use knives and axes because it's needed for advancement and yet they can't use electric screwdrivers because it's not needed for advancement. Is this true? If so then there's a huge disconnect between the volunteers trying to implement this program and those that are deciding what it is. I think the discussion should be about what the program is, from the viewpoint of the BSA. A lot of the things that seem odd to me make a lot more sense if the focus is on advancement. Unfortunately, by shifting away from fun and decision making the program is moving away from what the volunteers see working. One simple example. I had 50 scouts complete their eagle and all but two of them stuck around until they were 18. When asked what kept them around only one of them said advancement. The rest talked about fun with friends and having a purpose in the troop. That's why I think electric screwdrivers and laser tag should be allowed. The potential harm of scouts shooting toy guns at each other or hurting themself with a screwdriver is much less than the potential gain of the scouts deciding for themselves what is fun, and then doing it.

Yep. They're in the U.S. for 3 months. They'd been here a month and the day they were at my house was the first day they had down. So I mostly let them be, fed them good food, and had a campfire in my back yard. They didn't do their show. Another group was in town a few years ago but I was on a high adventure trip.

The context of my comment was the parents that just see summer camp as a way to get merit badges. Unfortunately they are tending to be the most vocal and camps are responding to them. At my local camp there's very little free time to do any shooting activities, or climbing, or anything at the water front.

Welcome to the forum @SCCMatthew.

Welcome to the forum, @sandlime. Good question. Maybe someone else can help with that.

Someone should talk about the cost of those MBs. $300 camp for 4 MBs is $75/MB. That's a lot, and probably the low end given how many partials scouts get. I wonder how many parents would think that's a good deal. Maybe bring up the whole thrifty thing and show the scouts how to call a counselor. Anyway, I agree. A few classes for the activities requiring certification to teach. Make the rest fun. Camps could help patrols find activities. That would be good.

I agree with CalicoPenn that the rules are for those without common sense. Summer camps used to fire off a cannon with a blank to wake everyone up, until some fool decided to stand right in front of the cannon and the wad killed him. One solution to this, that the BSA implemented, is to ban all cannons. Another would be to implement some training. The first is easy and the second takes some effort. If that's all there is to it then the first is the obvious choice. But I think there's more to this. There's talk about philosophy of hazing or shooting at a human likeness. There's even a philosophy behind safety. But there's another philosophy that's being ignored. Namely, letting scouts take a risk. Letting them get closer to the edge is where they learn. I'm fully in favor of discussing gun safety and then letting a scout shoot a gun safely because it brings the scout closer to the edge. He might do something stupid. He might point an unloaded gun back towards where other people are. If he does there's going to be a teachable moment when the ranger master chews him a new orifice. (Been there. Done that.) I do not like the "smoke shifters are hazing" rules because there is a line that is a teachable moment that we can't use. Stay on one side of the line and it's harmless fun. Cross the line and a scout is miserable. Getting close or even crossing the line is a teachable moment. Not allowing the scouts to get at anywhere near that line is just wasting opportunity and denying fun. Sure, they can have fun doing something else, but most likely it won't come with that teachable moment. And it's getting worse. Not allowing scouts to do any events without adults around is the same thing. If the scouts are truly responsible then they are closer to the line. The only way to allow that is to keep the adults away. There is a risk, just like shooting a cannon. One option is to not allow it and the other is to create training to support it. There is a risk that things can go wrong. Right now the rules are fairly vague as to what it means to have an adult around. The BSA will not relax those rules. What happens when someone says scouts can no longer cook on their own because some scout got burned starting a grease fire? The phrase fun with a purpose should be considered with the idea of risk in mind. Fun involves risk. Competition, adventure, or trying anything new all involve risk and it's all fun. Maybe the purpose is to teach scouts how to minimize that risk. The scout motto is about minimizing risk. We want them to learn how to make good decisions. That's mostly about dealing with risk. I understand that some things are too risky. I'm fine with requiring scouts to be top roped while climbing. But can the BSA at least try and quantify some of these risks, rather than just say no risk is allowed? Honestly, how many scouts have been hurt by electric screwdrivers? If there really is an issue then make a 5 minute video the scouts can watch.

I use algebra all the time. I would have used calculus or relativity theory as better examples. But your point is still valid. It creates an environment where the real learning happens.

Welcome to the forum, @CanyonCowboy.