MattR

What are coins? I mean, credit cards are starting to become obsolete. My wife would go nuts if I started a collection. I already have many collections - old tools, old cameras, old calculators and the biggest: old junk.

I'm not a popcorn fanatic and I only ever get kernels so I can pop it myself. I do know that after letting half a bag sit in my cupboard for a few years it doesn't pop so great. But what does pop is good. All the other stuff is no fun or too sweet. That all said, if you can sell more of one variety over another, I think that's what I'd push for. If you feel bad about the money not going to council then just figure out what their cut would have been and make a donation. Which approach would bring in more money for your unit?

It does sound like a fair amount of overlap. The BSA has always been interested in the intersection of science and outdoors. I like science so I'm good with it. However, the Hornaday award was always an odd duck. The lowest level was do a conservation based eagle project and the highest was do four of them. It just competed with eagle too much. So I'm curious about this one.

Speaking of whining, let's remember that nobody has actually proposed changing the scoutmaster title to something else. This thread was started based on some real estate person saying the term master bedroom should not be used. So maybe a hand full of people put up an idea about how to sell houses and this forum produces nine pages of commentary. It might not be whining but maybe making mountains out of mole hills.

Yes it does. But it really helps when people like you try to make it better. Thank you for helping me keep my glass half full. Some day you will have that campfire.

It may depend where you're at. We once went to a county campground and nothing could be tied to trees. The reason was it was a high use area and, just like staying on trail, they didn't want wear and tear on the trees from every camper tying up dish nets.

That's nonsense. We have competitions all the time. One on one, whether a single scout, patrol or troop were always the highlight of every campout and camporee I went on or organized. From axe competitions to tug-o-war, fire building to relay races through the woods, home made sleds to lashed travois, scouts have a lot of fun competing. I suppose fencing could be fun with good leadership but I could see a lot of mangled equipment, so this is a non starter for me.

Maybe you could dig into that a bit. Representative of what? Do they have an organization? An address? Is there a way to ask them a question? A contact page? A FAQ? Is there leadership, ways to solve problems, voting, a way to come to consensus, make decisions, anything that is more than just a hashtag and a vague description of what they want? The answer to all of this is no. As best I can tell they have a website and a wiki page. The website is very vague and the wiki references web pages that no longer exist on the website. At one point in time the website had a list of 13 guiding principles but that web page no longer exists so any ideas of what BLM stands for has to be gleaned from other pages on the website. There are currently 16 chapters in the US and 3 in Canada. In order to become a chapter all you have to do is fill out a form and then someone, from somewhere, will get back to you, probably just to make sure you're for real. There are no other requirements. So, again, what is this representative representing? With no framework all that's left is what ever anyone wants it to be. It's just an inkblot. The person that said go ahead and pillage and plunder wants it to be a mechanism of revenge. All the people that dislike the term BLM wants it to be evil, so they pick and choose what to respond to. All the people that like the term want it to be a source of good. Since it can be anything to anyone, it's really nothing. Certainly it's nothing to criticize and use to make an argument about. There's a great article by David Brooks about how radicals bring important problems to light but aren't able to solve them. That requires more pragmatism. So maybe the "BLM representative" that you dislike so much is the radical bringing important problems to light. It's time to move on to someone more important to pay attention to that is more pragmatic.

I've only read the introduction so far. My first impression is that, for the majority of issues, nothing has changed, at all. It's the same arguments about program, council, national, parents that "Molly coddle" their kids, "the good ol days" when kids were self reliant, struggle with incorporating minority immigrants and more. 1920 and 2020 look surprisingly similar. It might have some good insights into how to move forward with less national resources as they had little. Only warning: this is a real thesis and not a scouter U thesis.

Another way of looking at @skeptic's point: If you're sure the BSA is going to fold then why are you still here?

I have a story for you. I met some guy and he had Hebrew tattooed on his arm. I thought that was really odd because anyone that knows Hebrew likely does not have any tattoos. So I thought this could be an interesting person to talk to and I asked him what the meaning was of that tattoo. He said "I don't know, it just looked cool." There was absolutely no offense taken. Besides, it did look cool. And yet, I can just see someone asking a rabbi for a cool looking word for a tattoo and the rabbi saying sure! And handing him Hebrew for putz. Assuming someone is using a different culture in a respectful manner I think a simple rule is ask someone if it's okay. So ask a local tribe if the regalia is accurate and respectful. If so, great. If not, odds are they would be willing to help. I don't know of any minorities that wouldn't want more people to learn what is important to them. The article of this thread is not representative of what most people think so I wouldn't get too excited about it.

Nope. It only melted the ice less than 2" at the hottest point of the fire. Water and ice are good insulators. The next morning everything had burned down to the water level and stopped. We built a platform of logs that we stacked everything on top of. We had scouts working all day collecting logs in several feet of snow. That was a great camp fire.

Welcome to the forum! We bought a tire mount but I'm not sure there was much discussion about it.

I hate to keep piling on, but it seems that scouts don't love doing merit badges. They might feel like they've gotten a step closer to eagle, but it isn't fun. We never do merit badges on high adventure trips and those trips are the best fun. Rafting on a river is fun. Making a snow shelter and sleeping in it is fun. BBQ in the snow using a big metal trash can is fun. Making a rope bridge is fun. Camping without tents is fun. Making a fire on a frozen lake from a pile of wood stacked 8 feet high is fun. I admit, coming up with fun stuff is hard, mainly because it has to be different. One merit badge I'd like to see is developing one's imagination. Start with old Boy's Life issues and scour them for ideas, mix in some more, beat them down, build them back up, stir them around, repeat until something good comes out, work on the details, ensure they're safe, cheep and practical, propose them, go for it and then figure out what would make them better next time. Get all scouts in on this and then they'd be ready for life after scouts.

Sure would be nice to learn from what they were up against and what they did. Publish it under case studies.

No. Just sounds like you've been locked inside too long.

Thank you for your explanation, @TAHAWK. I did not know about what happened at Ohio State. I was too young to know what was going on back then but I do remember the assassinations in 68. There were a lot of long faces in my neighborhood. As for what you're not seeing in the media now, I am a bit surprised. I poke around in a lot of different news sources and while it does take some time to answer questions I usually figure it out. BTW, here's another headline for you: "Calm night of protests in Portland after Oregon State Police step in for federal officers." This was from a local tv station in Portland. John Lewis wrote an opinion piece a few weeks ago that was published in the NY Times yesterday. It was very eloquent.

Welcome to the forum, @SWdenleader. You don't need to be grandfathered in. If a scout is going to leave because of a uniform issue then there's a problem. No kid should be denied scouting because of some uniform issue. Honestly, I don't even know if this is an issue (if you can't read where it says webelos must wear a tan uniform, then it isn't a rule), but it doesn't matter. What does matter is your scouts having fun. In this economy, do your best. Don't worry about the uniform. Oh, and pull up a log and join us.

@TAHAWK, when I asked you what the point of your posts were, I really was asking a question. I never said you couldn't post. I'm having to wade through all your posts to figure out what it is that you're getting at. There are many ways to read these pictures. I mentioned all the other things going on just as a way to say, yep, this is a bad summer, and violent protesters are just part of it, so what's new? Is this it? I suspect, from what you've written before it could be, but, and I'm trying to be polite here, you have a way of posting things and not explaining, clearly, what you're trying to get at. It may be very clear to you but it's not always clear to me. It's clear that you're very passionate about most everything you contribute on this forum (and I do appreciate it) but sometimes the passion comes through a lot more than the specifics. I'm going to assume your point is close to Carl's point, that a small number of violent people can just change the whole focus of a moment. Thus, since we are led by rules, these people should follow those rules. I read an interesting comment the other day, related to the violent protesters, and the post was about how in the 60's there was absolutely no tolerance from protesters for any violence from protesters. Everyone knew that any excuse for the police to start being rough was going to take away from their message. Another idea was that when there are a few bad people causing violence and the police response is to inflict violence on everyone, including those that are peaceful, does that violate free speech? Something to think about. But a more impressive discussion came from an old scout in my troop that is now a cop. He talked about the training he got in deescalation. He was trained to back off and let things calm down as much as possible. He also said some police departments do that and many don't. Those where the police live in the areas they work tend to do that and those that live elsewhere don't. That alone has clarified so much of what I'm seeing in the news. Anyway, I'm hoping that clarifies my comments.

That's still a nice saw. I just don't have room. I had a guy with a portable mill saw some logs up for me. That was a huge bandsaw. I was like a 7 year old watching this thing. Gas powered. He could have easily done 25" diameter logs. Mine were small at 14". He changed the blade (this was black locust) and, just a guess but it was 4 loops around 2 feet in diameter, so 12ish feet. But only 1 tooth per inch. It took about 10 minutes to slice an 8' log into 5/4 boards. Part of the reason I'm out of room is I have some of that wood stacked in my garage.

@TAHAWK, I read enough news elsewhere. Honestly, what's the point of these posts? It looks like you're saying there is vandalism and violence. I agree. I also read some great comments, of all things, about how "back in the day" peaceful protesters had to be extra vigilant to expel violent protesters because it just takes one bad protester to to completely skew the coverage away from the peaceful protest. Kind of like how a few bad cops might skew the work of many good cops. So where are we now? There are a few violent protesters and a few violent cops making their own news cycles in the middle of a pandemic that is killing a thousand people a day and completely trashing the economy to levels very few still living have seen before while congress is frozen in a quicksand of acrimony and constitutional crisis that has resulted in a political climate that makes everyone walk around on egg shells for fear of setting of huge arguments while we're socially distancing and washing our hands a lot while we discuss the fall of scouting. Have I covered the past few months well enough?

That's why I was so impressed with the Israeli scouts. From day one, when a 6 year old kid enters their program, they know that when they're 14 they're going to be running a small group of younger scouts. By the time they're 16 they're going to be deciding the program for a patrol. By the time they're 18 they're going to be running a troop of 100. There are no ranks or requirements for each scout and only vague descriptions of what the program could be, but the leadership is very well laid out. Fewer expectations of ranks and parents might make it easier for scouts to lead. This also reminds me of a description of Japanese gardens. They're supposed to look natural but everything is placed for a reason. It's very unnatural. They want the fallen leaves cleaned up, but not too clean as that wouldn't look natural. So they use the old men to clean up the leaves. They don't see everything, they get tired, sweeping up most of the leaves is good enough so they can go back to talking to their friends. The result is perfection, just enough leaves to look right but not overwhelming. Maybe what I'm saying is scouts needs more really young adults (rovers?) and grandparents running things. Youthful enthusiasm along with older wisdom but fewer expectation getting in the way of the actual scouts. Given the current problems it might be something to consider. Of course, this is all just an old man talking. I should get back to my garden

@Eagledad, I suspect that 98 years ago nobody worried about entertaining older scouts. A sail boat sounded like fun, so they got one and had fun. And it grew into Sea Scouts. And now, their equivalent to Eagle is harder to do than what Eagle requires.

Sure they do, but if on those other events you ran at a profit, why not just say the net of all the events has to balance out? We asked for that and, well, that's when things got ugly. I like @CommishJulian's approach of just doing it on your own.

Sounds like the original venture patrol.